IAmPappy Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, JamboAl said: Totally agree. But we haven’t heard from CONCACAF yet on sanctioning. 🙂 Not sure caffycaffy has jurisdiction here. This is a domestic matter. It’s not like Fury trying to stay in USL. I could be (likely am) wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschamp86 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, IAmPappy said: Not sure caffycaffy has jurisdiction here. This is a domestic matter. It’s not like Fury trying to stay in USL. I could be (likely am) wrong. Pretty sure it was a joke IAmPappy and JamboAl 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, IAmPappy said: Not sure caffycaffy has jurisdiction here. This is a domestic matter. It’s not like Fury trying to stay in USL. I could be (likely am) wrong. I was being a bit of a troll. 98.5% sure they don't have jurisdiction, but it does make you think if L1O and PLSQ are similar quality leagues, then why Ottawa South United should get an exemption from the OSA. Obviously, the Fury were professional and OSU are not and this is more of a provincial matter. IAmPappy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deschamp86 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, JamboAl said: I was being a bit of a troll. 98.5% sure they don't have jurisdiction, but it does make you think if L1O and PLSQ are similar quality leagues, then why Ottawa South United should get an exemption from the OSA. Obviously, the Fury were professional and OSU are not and this is more of a provincial matter. The exemption makes sense because the majority of teams they will play in PLSQ are 2 hours away in Montreal, rather than the closest team they played in L1O was 4 hours away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 On 1/29/2020 at 10:45 AM, toontownman said: I think post 2026 will be an interesting time. I would put the chance of the (IMO) inevitable end of the MLS in Canada happening BEFORE 2026 as 80%. As I said a couple of more seasons to prove viability and there will be no reason to extend the waiver. CSA and CONCACAF (assuming no leadership change) will want the CanPL to be "complete" by the time the WC kicks off. toontownman and youllneverwalkalone 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmPappy Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, deschamp86 said: Pretty sure it was a joke LOL !!! Wow, that went completely over my head. I’m feeling very sheepish ... deschamp86 and Winnipeg Fury 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, IAmPappy said: LOL !!! Wow, that went completely over my head. I’m feeling very sheepish ... Can only pull the wool over your eyes for so long. Winnipeg Fury and toontownman 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cblake Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 6 minutes ago, JamboAl said: I was being a bit of a troll. 98.5% sure they don't have jurisdiction, but it does make you think if L1O and PLSQ are similar quality leagues, then why Ottawa South United should get an exemption from the OSA. Obviously, the Fury were professional and OSU are not and this is more of a provincial matter. I kind of wonder if provincial lines really mater all that much. There is an entire group of similar level leagues in the US that cross all sorts of state lines. This is more about whats best for the club. Geography is the key thing here as it is for Canada in general. The interesting thing to me if the Pacific Coast Soccer League. At times there have been both Canadian and American teams. Its been a season to season thing. Lofty and ted 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Cblake said: I kind of wonder if provincial lines really mater all that much. I don't think so. Most of BC is pretty isolated due to the mountains but I would have no problem with a Prince George team being in a league with Alberta teams. And Saskatchewan and Manitoba should probably be joined for a D3, maybe with Alberta? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Big_M said: Huge news..Ottawa South United joins PLSQ http://plsq.ca/actualites/ottawa-south-united-se-joint-a-la-plsq?fbclid=IwAR1O4D03dl89ltngphCmf_D9hbsf3gBpmO4JGX-LalLhwBoOUVYef3PvCyQ These teams from Ottawa are always playing outside of proper jurisdictions. I wonder if Montagiliani and CONCACAF will intervene. PS. I posted without looking at the much better similar posts, like by @JamboAl Edited January 30, 2020 by Unnamed Trialist Shway and ted 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Initial B Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 4 hours ago, ted said: I would put the chance of the (IMO) inevitable end of the MLS in Canada happening BEFORE 2026 as 80%. As I said a couple of more seasons to prove viability and there will be no reason to extend the waiver. CSA and CONCACAF (assuming no leadership change) will want the CanPL to be "complete" by the time the WC kicks off. It would have to make economic sense for the current Canadian MLS clubs to make the switch, and I don't ever see that happening with TFC unless Bell and Rogers want them to. They would fight that tooth and nail as it would directly impact their TSN/Sportsnet content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Initial B said: It would have to make economic sense for the current Canadian MLS clubs to make the switch, and I don't ever see that happening with TFC unless Bell and Rogers want them to. They would fight that tooth and nail as it would directly impact their TSN/Sportsnet content. Not saying it should or should not happen, but I think we just saw what happens when the sanctioning body decides to put their foot down. Proclaiming that this decision will be determined by TFC’s economic interests seems pretty unconvincing. There might be a fight, but I have no confidence whatsoever that TFC and MLS would win a battle with CONCACAF and FIFA if push came to shove. And as others have mentioned before, FIFA has a very strong interest in maintaining the integrity of this rule. The economic impacts of losing that particular battle (including opening the door for the creation of a European super league) far outweigh anything TFC and their telecom backers could bring to bear. Ansem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoccMan Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 59 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said: Not saying it should or should not happen, but I think we just saw what happens when the sanctioning body decides to put their foot down. Proclaiming that this decision will be determined by TFC’s economic interests seems pretty unconvincing. There might be a fight, but I have no confidence whatsoever that TFC and MLS would win a battle with CONCACAF and FIFA if push came to shove. And as others have mentioned before, FIFA has a very strong interest in maintaining the integrity of this rule. The economic impacts of losing that particular battle (including opening the door for the creation of a European super league) far outweigh anything TFC and their telecom backers could bring to bear. If and when the CPL is pulling in TFC average crowds then this MLS to CPL should become an argument until then why not concentrate on sustainability and growing the league . Why destroy something that finally seems to be working right now by bringing them into a league that still no one knows if it will work in the long run. If the CPL is the real deal then it will grow . Put teams in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver and let people decide , forcing teams into the CPL that are pretty successful already in the MLS to go into an inferior league at the moment is wrong. If and when the CPL grows to a point where people don’t see much of a difference in leagues then you revisit this but not before. If you really think TFC would get the same type of attendance playing in the CPL if say Forge in 10 years was still getting 4 to 5 thousand a game then I’ve got some swamp land in California to sell you. However, if I go to THF and see the same type of crowds I see at Tiger Cat games then yes an argument can be hand , but before then leave the MLS teams where they are until the CPL becomes stronger . Edited January 31, 2020 by SoccMan longlugan, IAmPappy, toontownman and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cblake Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 19 minutes ago, SoccMan said: If and when the CPL is pulling in TFC average crowds then this MLS to CPL should become an argument until then why not concentrate on sustainability and growing the league . Why destroy something that finally seems to be working right now by bringing them into a league that still no one knows if it will work in the long run. If the CPL is the real deal then it will grow . Put teams in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver and let people decide , forcing teams into the CPL that are pretty successful already in the MLS to go into an inferior league at the moment is wrong. If and when the CPL grows to a point where people don’t see much of a difference in leagues then you revisit this but not before. If you really think TFC would get the same type of attendance playing in the CPL if say Forge in 10 years was still getting 4 to 5 thousand a game then I’ve got some swamp land in California to sell you. However, if I go to THF and see the same type of crowds I see at Tiger Cat games then yes an argument can be hand , but before then leave the MLS teams where they are until the CPL becomes stronger . Plus a number the teams will have to get bigger stadiums for real growth. toontownman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 10 hours ago, SoccMan said: If and when the CPL is pulling in TFC average crowds then this MLS to CPL should become an argument until then why not concentrate on sustainability and growing the league . Why destroy something that finally seems to be working right now by bringing them into a league that still no one knows if it will work in the long run. If the CPL is the real deal then it will grow . Put teams in Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver and let people decide , forcing teams into the CPL that are pretty successful already in the MLS to go into an inferior league at the moment is wrong. If and when the CPL grows to a point where people don’t see much of a difference in leagues then you revisit this but not before. If you really think TFC would get the same type of attendance playing in the CPL if say Forge in 10 years was still getting 4 to 5 thousand a game then I’ve got some swamp land in California to sell you. However, if I go to THF and see the same type of crowds I see at Tiger Cat games then yes an argument can be hand , but before then leave the MLS teams where they are until the CPL becomes stronger . You seem to be attributing a whole lot of things to me that I never said and don’t actually believe. That was pretty clearly previewed in my first sentence. For clarity: - I am not trying to tear down MLS or the Canadian teams playing there - I never said the move should happen. - I never said TFC would maintain current attendance levels if they moved to CPL. My point was simply that it is silly to think that TFC’s economic clout would win this battle if FIFA and CONCACAF decide they want to force the issue There are literally billions of dollars at stake if clubs can successfully override FIFA’s ability to force them into domestic league participation. The post I quoted was claiming the issue would be decided by TFC alone, and I am simply pointing out that it is pretty hard to accept that argument given what we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Academic discussion but still. Forget the length of the sactioning period the CSA granted TFC & Co. to operate an MLS franchise in Canada, I've always wondered what strings were attached to that agreement. I'd be stunned if the CSA just gave away the farm for 20 years and said "Good luck!". By that I mean who's deciding what constitutes a domestic player in MLS? The rules always seem to be changing. Is this entirely the province of MLS HQ or does Canada Soccer have to sign off on changes when they occure? I expect both parties have to agree on this question, as a condition of continuing sanctioning. In the context of this discussion why am I bringing this up? I don't think the USSF will ever agree to reciprocity. Canadians will never count as domestics, full stop, in the USA. Throw all your conditional exceptions out the window. Never going to happen. But that is something Canada Soccer has to be inching towards. And if Canadian Content on the MLS teams in Canada is forced to increase I think you're changing a lot for those three franchises. As much off the playing field as on it. Just saying. Morning all. Andrew W, Shway and johnyb 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ted Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 16 hours ago, Initial B said: It would have to make economic sense for the current Canadian MLS clubs to make the switch, and I don't ever see that happening with TFC unless Bell and Rogers want them to. They would fight that tooth and nail as it would directly impact their TSN/Sportsnet content. No it wouldn't. We are talking about the sanctioning from the national and regional federations whose primary concern is sporting. Once the CanPL has demonstrated it's viability - much different than profitability - the decision will be made. Now, from a business perspective, given that MLS is getting closer to the maximum number of teams that are viable, the value of the franchise alone is huge. Any one of the Canadian MLS owners could sell their franchise rights to an ownership group in the United States and make a huge profit on their investment. In other words, it already makes economic sense to get out. They could then either invest in the CanPL or simply step aside and allow someone else to enter the market. As for TSN/Sportsnet, they can have all the soccer content they are willing to pay for and marketing a successful CanPL will be no more difficult than MLS. Unlike NFL, MLB, or NBA, MLS is not seen by the general viewing public as better quality than other leagues and if people truly care about watching Miami play Los Angeles they will keep doing so without Canadian teams in the league. youllneverwalkalone, johnyb and CDNFootballer 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulV Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Why would they step in here when they haven't stepped in elsewhere in the world where teams continue to play across boundaries because there is no comparable league in their own jurisdiction? The Fury situation is not really a good parallel. Are there any examples that might match with the Canadian MLS teams? nfitz 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Initial B Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, ted said: We are talking about the sanctioning from the national and regional federations whose primary concern is sporting. Once the CanPL has demonstrated it's viability - much different than profitability - the decision will be made. But the ramifications of any sort of ruling would be huge, especially as that would affect Cardiff and Swansea in the English system. Or Monaco in the French system. I just see all parties simply letting sleeping dogs lie and continue with the status quo unless someone really decides to upset the apple cart. Ozzie_the_parrot, Kent, johnyb and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Remember as well the CSA ok'ed the Fury to play in USL in 2020. It was the Fury that pulled the plug themselves (or sabotaged themselves by not properly filing with CONCACAF). Gian-Luca 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew W Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 hours ago, Initial B said: But the ramifications of any sort of ruling would be huge, especially as that would affect Cardiff and Swansea in the English system. Or Monaco in the French system. I just see all parties simply letting sleeping dogs lie and continue with the status quo unless someone really decides to upset the apple cart. Those of us who support Newport County are wounded by your leaving them out of this example. 😬 nfitz, JamboAl and dnina10 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Andrew W said: Those of us who support Newport County are wounded by your leaving them out of this example. 😬 I likewise am heartbroken for Andorra, who are my football equivalent of a identity politics "reminder that heteronormativity is the hegemonic cultural mechanism by which oppresive discources of phallocentrism normalise a proxi-fascist rearticulation of power structures", as @TatianaMcGrath would say. longlugan, Andrew W and BuzzAndSting 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 It will be interesting to see the amount SUM can get for media rights. Anything under $300m doesn't seem that compelling for the 3 Canadian MLS sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Rintaran said: This would definitely cause some buzz. I can just see an advertisement for Atletico Ottawa. Think "full heel". They come out, present themselves as "the bad guys" and truly work the angle to be the most hated team by fans of other teams, but a twisted bastion of hope for former Fury fans & people in Ottawa. It could be a pretty good marketing campaign if they go at it 100%, and JDG would be the right face for that campaign, given remarks previously attributed to him. Underrated. They should make something like those NWO promotional videos that use to start with "The following announcement has been paid for by the New World Order," 1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said: I likewise am heartbroken for Andorra, who are my football equivalent of an identity politics reminder that everything I say politically is disingenuous. FYP Edited January 31, 2020 by Macksam Stouffvillain and Rintaran 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, youllneverwalkalone said: It will be interesting to see the amount SUM can get for media rights. Anything under $300m doesn't seem that compelling for the 3 Canadian MLS sides. The way they've been hyping this, anything short of a billion would be a disappointment. Thinking that the NHL is getting $200M per year for 10 years ($2B) until 2021 (since 2011)...how much does MLS really hopes to get? Their viewership are certainly lower than the NHL. I think they want the "billion" figure, even it means over at least 10 years if not more. MLS $100M per year ÷ 30 teams (by 2022) = $3.3M per teams But the kicker? CFL CFL new TV deal is near $50M per year ÷ 10 clubs = ~ $5M per teams or US$3 7M . 😂 Edited February 1, 2020 by Ansem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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