Ballou Tabla

[Sal333]

1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

No. I am currently living in Ottawa but I work on the Québec side (Gatineau).

 

Where do you live?

In Montreal. I was born and raised here.

So let's look at how popular soccer is in QC.

1) FC MTL - formerly the Impact - is losing money. Montreal was the third Cdn city to get a MLS franchise - even though it's the 2nd largest and 2nd richest city in the nation -  and we have a team only because Joey Saputo is a soccer nut.

2) QC being the 2nd most populated province has one pro soccer team - that's close to failing. Ontario has 4 pro teams FC Toronto, Forge, York & Athelitico. B.C. & Alberta with half the pop of QC have two pro teams each. For crying out loud Manitoba with a third of the pop has a pro team and Nova Scotia with a sixth of the pop has a pro team. The CPL would die in QC.

3) Canada Soccer offered Montreal some games in the 2026 World Cup and the gover't of this soccer loving province said thanks but no thanks we don't want them. Maybe the gover't had good reasons to refuse, maybe they didn't but there wasn't a peep from the soccer loving population.

4) Viewership of that Canada-Panama game on RDS was 26K. ROC was 350K. If you want to prorate for population that should have been about 80K in QC. And Canada had some Quebecois on the roster so this province couldn't even use that excuse.

Tell me again how soccer is popular in Quebec. It's popular in certain pockets of this city (Montreal) and it's mainly the immigrant pockets. You leave the greater Montreal area and it basically becomes a soccer desert. Maybe it'll change with this national team. It does have a few Quebecois on the roster. Anyway, I hope it'll change

 

Edited October 17, 2021 by Sal333

[GasPed]

19 hours ago, Sal333 said:

My feeling is that the game was too easy for Ballou growing up. He never had to expend any kind of effort. Considering he learned to play soccer in Quebec where it's not exactly a popular sport, the competition just wasn't there from the early years. It's not like a kid playing in Ontario where it's popular so you have lots of athletic players to play against.

I do agree that the "big fish, small pond" mentality can work against some players - they don't realize that when they get to the big pond, the things they did to get there are not nearly sufficient to be able to stay there.  But tbh, there are many many kids in the same position (I mean, Alphonso Davies, etc.) - enough that it's really tough to use it as an "excuse".  Still, it's sad.

[Grandbloke]

3 hours ago, Sal333 said:

Tell me again how soccer is popular in Quebec. It's popular in certain pockets of this city (Montreal) and it's mainly the immigrant pockets. You leave the greater Montreal area and it basically becomes a soccer desert. Maybe it'll change with this national team. It does have a few Quebecois on the roster. Anyway, I hope it'll change

 

I live in Quebec City. As a youth participation sport, soccer is very popular here, but as a spectator sport it is not. I suspect that the situation is similar in most parts of the province. And in the province as a whole, interest in our national teams (men’s and women’s) is not as high as in the rest of Canada, because a majority of Quebecers think of themselves more as Quebecers than as Canadians.

[Stryker911]

6 hours ago, Floortom said:

I still remember being on team Tabla in those initial Ballou vs. Davies debates 😂

Same. But that may have been because of the Ivory Coast interest. Imagine if both of them had reached Davies level. 

[Free kick]

6 hours ago, Sal333 said:

In Montreal. I was born and raised here.

So let's look at how popular soccer is in QC.

1) FC MTL - formerly the Impact - is losing money. Montreal was the third Cdn city to get a MLS franchise - even though it's the 2nd largest and 2nd richest city in the nation -  and we have a team only because Joey Saputo is a soccer nut.

2) QC being the 2nd most populated province has one pro soccer team - that's close to failing. Ontario has 4 pro teams FC Toronto, Forge, York & Athelitico. B.C. & Alberta with half the pop of QC have two pro teams each. For crying out loud Manitoba with a third of the pop has a pro team and Nova Scotia with a sixth of the pop has a pro team. The CPL would die in QC.

3) Canada Soccer offered Montreal some games in the 2026 World Cup and the gover't of this soccer loving province said thanks but no thanks we don't want them. Maybe the gover't had good reasons to refuse, maybe they didn't but there wasn't a peep from the soccer loving population.

4) Viewership of that Canada-Panama game on RDS was 26K. ROC was 350K. If you want to prorate for population that should have been about 80K in QC. And Canada had some Quebecois on the roster so this province couldn't even use that excuse.

Tell me again how soccer is popular in Quebec. It's popular in certain pockets of this city (Montreal) and it's mainly the immigrant pockets. You leave the greater Montreal area and it basically becomes a soccer desert. Maybe it'll change with this national team. It does have a few Quebecois on the roster. Anyway, I hope it'll change

 

Everything you say is well supported.    I reside in GTA (for many years now) but I am from Quebec and I am back there many times a year and still follow closely (from a distance) the news and goings on in the province and in Montreal.   

That said, i would that say if you look at it from a very broad sense: "Soccer's popularity",  there is no difference from what i can tell between Ontario and Quebec  and Greater Montreal and the GTA.     in fact, if immigration patterns mean anything in terms of enhancing the culture for soccer,  then the trends would suggest a growth in Quebec and a decline in Ontario.  Quebec has been favoring a lot of immigration from areas like North Africa and Latin America.  The game is well rooted in the culture of these regions of the world.  Whereas in the GTA, the trend has been towards new arrivals from various parts of Asia where soccer is no where near as popular.   If the popularity of the major events in the game (WC, Euros..etc), is any kind of barometer,   then from my observation,  again,  there is no difference.

That said,   you are still 100%  correct about all your points, but i would attribute it to many different factors that have nothing to do with "Popularity of soccer".   sorry, i don't feel like typing an essay here, so i will try to be brief.   Two main points need to be taken into account to describe the points you listed and why they are true despite the fact that i contend that, when it comes to popularity, there is no difference.  1)  there are economic differences between the two province and cities.  what i am referring to is things  like disposable income, taxes,  private sector size, etc etc which affects how people spend their money or choose to spend their money.   And,  in how the new arrivals from soccer cultures spend their money or choose to spend their money. Basically, new immigrants dont fare very well economically, in Quebec. There is also a lot less private investment in Quebec,  few sources of sponsorship $$$ and this would affect why there are fewer clubs.  2)  Linguistic/Nationalism:  you need to have a strong  francophones presence on the club and they need to be stars.   I will stop here for now because i could go on for too long on these two topics.   plus i dont want to get political.  

Edited October 18, 2021 by Free kick

[Unnamed Trialist]

14 minutes ago, Free kick said:

Everything you say is well supported.    I reside in GTA (for many years now) but I am from Quebec and I am back there many times a year and still follow closely (from a distance) the news and goings on in the province and in Montreal.   

That said, i would that say if you look at it from a very broad sense: "Soccer's popularity",  there is no difference from what i can tell between Ontario and Quebec  and Greater Montreal and the GTA.     in fact, if immigration patterns mean anything in terms of enhancing the culture for soccer,  then the trends would suggest a growth in Quebec and a decline in Ontario.  Quebec has been favoring a lot of immigration from areas like North Africa and Latin America.  The game is well rooted in the culture of these regions of the world.  Whereas in the GTA, the trend has been towards new arrivals from various parts of Asia where soccer is no where near as popular.   If the popularity of the major events in the game (WC, Euros..etc), is any kind of barometer,   then from my observation,  again,  there is no difference.

That said,   you are still 100%  correct about all your points, but i would attribute it to many different factors that have nothing to do with "Popularity of soccer".   sorry, i don't feel like typing an essay here, so i will try to be brief.   Two main points need to be taken into account to describe the points you listed and why they are true despite the fact that i contend that, when it comes to popularity, there is no difference.  1)  there are economic differences between the two province and cities.  what i am referring to is things  like disposable income, taxes,  private sector size, etc etc which affects how people spend their money or choose to spend their money.   And,  in how the new arrivals from soccer cultures spend their money or choose to spend their money. Basically, new immigrants dont fare very well economically, in Quebec. There is also a lot less private investment in Quebec,  and this would affect why there are fewer clubs.  2)  Linguistic/Nationalism:  you need to have a strong  francophones presence on the club and they need to be stars.   I will stop here for now because i could go on for too long on these two topics.   plus i dont want to get political.  

Your last point is radically unsupported by other parallel situations around the world in terms of language and culture. In fact, regions like Quebec thrive footballwise in the context of the nations they are found. 

But maybe I've misunderstood your point? 

[Free kick]

12 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Your last point is radically unsupported by other parallel situations around the world in terms of language and culture. In fact, regions like Quebec thrive footballwise in the context of the nations they are found. 

But maybe I've misunderstood your point? 

you are probably right.  and i knew that when i started typing.  But when it comes to doing a mind dump on topics like this, you inevitably end up not elaborating or expounding on all your points.   as i said,  you can go on endlessly on topics like that.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Free kick

[Joe1973]

I am born and raised in Montreal as well...2 short points to add to the excellent points you made. 

1) There is no lack of soccer fans in this city. Just observe during world cup or Euros all the flags and honking around the city after victories. Where we are culturally different I find is that this same passion just does not translate to supporting Canadian national team soccer in comparison to other provinces. Yet!

2) Montreal/Quebec  we are pretty solid bandwagon people and we will jump in head first into what's hot/happening. With the quality of this team and add to that the attractive style of soccer they play, and all the buzz that is being generated, Montreal/Quebec will be on this train believe me. Especially if we qualify for 2022. Just anecdotally, do you know how many people have talked to me about the game on Wednesday? They can't name a single player passed Davies (if even that) and were jealous I was at the game.

Back to Ballou...I am still keeping hope that he finds that person who will give him that epiphany.

[A_Gagne]

12 minutes ago, Joe1973 said:

Back to Ballou...I am still keeping hope that he finds that person who will give him that epiphany.

That person is himself... I hope he sorts it out.

[Approve My Account Pls]

Being from Toronto: I think we're cutting Toronto quite a lot of slack in our "soccer fandom". I think anywhere in the world we'll find people that are crazy for the sport, it is the most popular on earth. When it comes to playing the game, you will always find youth leagues because it is one of the most inexpensive sports to set up. Comparing Ontario to Quebec when it comes to supporting pro teams, population and money obviously plays a factor. But I also think Toronto is still riding the wave of TFC's success for teams they had from the Tim Leiweke MLSE era. Obviously people on this forum would have paid attention regardless, but success drew in and converted a lot of casuals and even footballing casuals - the ones that find it cool to watch premier league and champions league and then shit on the game in their own backdoor. If TFC has another season of awful performances, it wouldn't surprise me to see that wave decline further than it already has between COVID and this year. As for the CPL teams, I'll admit I don't know enough and don't think there's been enough time to comment on if they have been successful enough just yet, but we can look at the Ottawa Fury as an example that things aren't always rosey in Ontario either

[Acid-Tone]

18 hours ago, Sal333 said:

In Montreal. I was born and raised here.

So let's look at how popular soccer is in QC.

 

Now take your thesis suggesting that Tabla is struggling because soccer isn't popular in Montreal/Quebec, and explain to me how the great soccer Mecca of Edmonton Alberta helped develop and mold Alphonso in to one of the world's best.

[Sal333]

2 hours ago, Acid-Tone said:

Now take your thesis suggesting that Tabla is struggling because soccer isn't popular in Montreal/Quebec, and explain to me how the great soccer Mecca of Edmonton Alberta helped develop and mold Alphonso in to one of the world's best.

That's not what I said. I said it seems to me that Ballou had it easy. He never had to up his effort because he was extremely talented, probably always the best player on the pitch, faced no competition and playing in a province where the best and 2nd best athletes don't go into soccer also didn't help him. There probably wasn't a time he had to put in a concentrated effort until he went to Spain and was faced with players on his level or better but then it was too late. I also said it was combination of things. His attitude didn't help. But if someone with Ballou's self-entitlement was confronted at a young age with the concept of putting in the work maybe he would have turned out differently.

AS for Fonzie. THis is a kid that is all effort. Now is it all nature, all nurture or a combo of both? I think like Ballou it's a combo of both. Fonzie was born in a refugee camp. He was the first born to an immigrant family. (I know what that means). I remember seeing a documentary where they mentioned as the eldest (at 6,7, 8)he  was responsible for his younger siblings. So he was born with the right attitude  (nature) but his family circumstances also taught him life lessons (nurture).

In other words for both players it was a combination of nature and nurture. Not solely one over the other. That is what I was trying to say in the OP.

[BrennanFan]

51 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

That's not what I said. I said it seems to me that Ballou had it easy. He never had to up his effort because he was extremely talented, probably always the best player on the pitch, faced no competition and playing in a province where the best and 2nd best athletes don't go into soccer also didn't help him. There probably wasn't a time he had to put in a concentrated effort until he went to Spain and was faced with players on his level or better but then it was too late. I also said it was combination of things. His attitude didn't help. But if someone with Ballou's self-entitlement was confronted at a young age with the concept of putting in the work maybe he would have turned out differently.

AS for Fonzie. THis is a kid that is all effort. Now is it all nature, all nurture or a combo of both? I think like Ballou it's a combo of both. Fonzie was born in a refugee camp. He was the first born to an immigrant family. (I know what that means). I remember seeing a documentary where they mentioned as the eldest (at 6,7, 8)he  was responsible for his younger siblings. So he was born with the right attitude  (nature) but his family circumstances also taught him life lessons (nurture).

In other words for both players it was a combination of nature and nurture. Not solely one over the other. That is what I was trying to say in the OP.

Total garbage.  You don't get to be as good as Tabla is without putting in tons of work.  Insane amounts of work and effort.  Hope Tabla bounces back, he still has plenty to give.

[Obinna]

I am not overly concerned with Nancy's comments. You have to train well to make the game sheet. It's always been that way. There is nothing in his comment that suggest Tabla is being frozen out.

Montreal are in a playoff race and Ballou may just have to continue making his case in cup games. 

 

[dyslexic nam]

Let’s nor kid ourselves though - it isn’t this one incident in isolation.  He was called out by Henry.  That makes 2 managers that felt strongly enough about what they were seeing (or weren’t seeing) to talk about it publicly.   I doubt they are both such terrible managers that they would do that lightly.  And without going through the archives, something tells me there were similar issues noted by senior folks before Henry came on board as well. 

[The Beaver 2.0]

18 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Let’s nor kid ourselves though - it isn’t this one incident in isolation.  He was called out by Henry.  That makes 2 managers that felt strongly enough about what they were seeing (or weren’t seeing) to talk about it publicly.   I doubt they are both such terrible managers that they would do that lightly.  And without going through the archives, something tells me there were similar issues noted by senior folks before Henry came on board as well. 

Yeah, I want to believe Ballou will find the mindset that allows him to truly fulfill his potential, but the signs--so far--ain't good.  At some point you start running out of second chances.  Yeah, maybe he needs a truly special coach who can unlock him, but the chances he'll get such a coach is slight, at best. I want him to be a massive success. But I think UT is right on the money: If he doesn't really want it, then its best he move on and find something he truly wants to do.  To be fair, I've no idea how badly he wants a career in football. I just look at his trajectory so far, and I worry.  I want the best for Ballou, even if that isn't football.

[Obinna]

32 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Let’s nor kid ourselves though - it isn’t this one incident in isolation.  He was called out by Henry.  That makes 2 managers that felt strongly enough about what they were seeing (or weren’t seeing) to talk about it publicly.   I doubt they are both such terrible managers that they would do that lightly.  And without going through the archives, something tells me there were similar issues noted by senior folks before Henry came on board as well. 

Be that as it may, I bet we see him again before the season is done.

[GasPed]

1 hour ago, BrennanFan said:

Total garbage.  You don't get to be as good as Tabla is without putting in tons of work.  Insane amounts of work and effort.  Hope Tabla bounces back, he still has plenty to give.

I mean we're all just speculating since we haven't seen the practices, and the coaches haven't been completely specific about the issue.  Is it his attitude in practice or with his teammates, is he not trying hard enough, is he not able to learn what they're teaching, is he physically not capable of doing what they're asking - these are the questions.  But the fact is, it has been almost 4 years since he signed with Barca, and we've not seen any real sign of improvement (if anything, it's been a regression).

[kacbru]

15 minutes ago, GasPed said:

I mean we're all just speculating since we haven't seen the practices, and the coaches haven't been completely specific about the issue.  Is it his attitude in practice or with his teammates, is he not trying hard enough, is he not able to learn what they're teaching, is he physically not capable of doing what they're asking - these are the questions.  But the fact is, it has been almost 4 years since he signed with Barca, and we've not seen any real sign of improvement (if anything, it's been a regression).

Agreed, it could be any one of these things.  However, I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with him being from Montreal.

[Corazon]

I don't know if I am imagining this or not but last year didn't Thierry Henry sub Tabla in and then proceed to sub him out a short time later as well.  Similar to what Perez just did with JMR.

Unlike Tabla, I have never heard anything negative said about JMR in the locker room or in his effort. 

One a side note, I sat next to JMR for a few minutes at the Canada vs Panama game and he seemed incredibly down to earth.  I asked if that was going to be him in the next cycle and he replied "hopefully" with a huge smile.

[Dominic94]

2 hours ago, Corazon said:

I don't know if I am imagining this or not but last year didn't Thierry Henry sub Tabla in and then proceed to sub him out a short time later as well.  Similar to what Perez just did with JMR.

Unlike Tabla, I have never heard anything negative said about JMR in the locker room or in his effort. 

One a side note, I sat next to JMR for a few minutes at the Canada vs Panama game and he seemed incredibly down to earth.  I asked if that was going to be him in the next cycle and he replied "hopefully" with a huge smile.

Yea but Ballou was brutal that game and Henry was sending a mesSage.

[mtlfan]

Finally some insight into what is going on with Tabla. Here is an article explaing why we have not seen him. It is sad to read about his work ethic.

 

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2021/10/18/lart-de-la-substitution-payante

[dyslexic nam]

It is such a waste.  

I remember reading about Ronaldo.  Despite having such a huge amount of natural talent and seeming like a guy who doesn’t lack self-belief, the people at Manchester United said he was always the first one at the training ground and the last one to leave.  He recognized that his talent wasn’t a reason to do less than everyone else - it was a reason to do more.  

The opposite is the Balotelli approach.   He had massive talent and wasted it because he thought that it was enough to get him through.  After being identified as a guy with huge potential and signing a big contract or two, he slowly faded away.

Not saying Ballou is (or could be) Ronaldo but it goes to show how important it is to have the right attitude.  

This story just makes me so sad.  He has such potential - and he confirmed it is still very much in his power to be a game changer.  In the V Cup game he came on as a sub and scored two quality goals (one with each foot).  He can clearly perform at a high level. What a waste.  


 

[BrennanFan]

3 hours ago, mtlfan said:

Finally some insight into what is going on with Tabla. Here is an article explaing why we have not seen him. It is sad to read about his work ethic.

 

https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2021/10/18/lart-de-la-substitution-payante

The Ballou case

On the other end of the spectrum is Ballou Tabla who was left out last Saturday even though he was able to play. Wilfried Nancy has also played 19 players even if he can have 20 at his disposal.

Everything is a question of requirement. This is essentially what supported the team driver when reversed its decision to let the 20 th vacancy in its alignment against the Union.

“This is the last time I'm going to talk about Ballou and after that I hope we will move forward. We have the impression that we are turning it into a mountain, but there is no mountain to do, ”he first mentioned by way of clarification.  

“Players have to train to progress and if a player doesn't, they are already in an awkward position. I chose to stay at 19 because he didn't deserve to be in the squad for that game. I told him about it and it will stay between him and me. "

The situation is disappointing because the 22-year-old midfielder was believed to have revived with a brace against Halifax in the Canadian Championship last month.

“He has to be constant. Everyone's job as a football player is to love to train and love to work, and you have to do it over the long haul, ”Nancy insisted.

“I have already spoken with him several times, he knows it very well. It's up to him to take the bull by the horns to move forward. "

Even though he has known his player for a long time, Nancy does not intend to give him a pass.

“For any player, there are things to do to stay on the team. If I have to be 18 players instead of 20, I don't mind if that's the right thing to do. I am a coach, but I am also a trainer. "

[Acid-Tone]

16 hours ago, Dominic94 said:

Yea but Ballou was brutal that game and Henry was sending a mesSage.

The only message Henry ever successfully sent is that he has no idea how to manage a club!