Joel Waterman

[SpursFlu]

Besiktas? Wow that's a bit of a step up. Good for him

[SoCalTransport]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

Besiktas? Wow that's a bit of a step up. Good for him

I do feel Hutch had an influence on these deals...

[The Beaver 2.0]

Will Hutch join the Besiktas admin some day, when he retires?  Does he have aspirations to be a manager?  A scout? 

[VinceA]

Whether someone is better off in Europe or in MLS is up to the player and their development pathway. Adekugbe leaving Vancouver was best for him and his situation.

[The Real Marc]

That's a real melange of clubs. Exciting, but a bit strange to have something from Schalke right through to Adana.

[footballfreak]

Something to keep in mind during these conversations is the leagues aren’t static. MLS of 5/10/15 years ago isn’t the same as MLS now. With the cap and the minimum wage set to rise steadily (MW +55% from 2021 to 2026) in MLS over the next few years, a lateral move can quickly become a step down.

 

[BearcatSA]

So, almost a month since this transfer rumour came up and radio silence since then.

[jordan]

9 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

So, almost a month since this transfer rumour came up and radio silence since then.

Just see all the other rumours started over there in the past

[VinceA]

https://onesoccer.ca/a/for-sure-a-disappointment-samuel-piette-laments-missing-world-cup-debut-for-canada

At the end of this article Waterman acknowledges the rumours and says he's letting his agent deal with that and is focused on Montreal.

[BearcatSA]

On 1/16/2023 at 12:36 PM, VinceA said:

https://onesoccer.ca/a/for-sure-a-disappointment-samuel-piette-laments-missing-world-cup-debut-for-canada

At the end of this article Waterman acknowledges the rumours and says he's letting his agent deal with that and is focused on Montreal.

Well, he must have a very good agent at generating rumours because after watching him get badly turnstiled in the build up to the Shaffelberg goal (like was on the first Bahrain goal last fall), I don't see him making a higher profile move abroad any time soon.

[Soccerpro2]

5 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

Well, he must have a very good agent at generating rumours because after watching him get badly turnstiled in the build up to the Shaffelberg goal (like was on the first Bahrain goal last fall), I don't see him making a higher profile move abroad any time soon.

I don't think he or Kamal Miller are going to higher levels. The hype from posters on this forum was always strange to me.

[trc2014]

10 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said:

I don't think he or Kamal Miller are going to higher levels. The hype from posters on this forum was always strange to me.

Agreed.  The tone is whether Miller is going to a top 5 league or better suited for Turkey or Belgium.  Very odd to me. The focus should actually be being a top defender in MLS.

[VinceA]

Damn didn't know its time to turn on our boys.

[jonovision]

26 minutes ago, Soccerpro2 said:

I don't think he or Kamal Miller are going to higher levels. The hype from posters on this forum was always strange to me.

I never understood why Waterman was getting hyped so much, but Miller is a well-above-average MLS defender, which IMO qualifies one for some consideration by mid-tier teams in Belgium or Turkey. Both defenders suffer from being played alongside the walking hot mess that is Camacho.

[trc2014]

1 hour ago, VinceA said:

Damn didn't know its time to turn on our boys.

Not sure saying they could be top MLS defenders is turning on them.

[Aird25]

I guess this is an example of stats being deceiving because Waterman was the highest rated Montreal player on Fotmob

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

but Miller is a well-above-average MLS defender, which IMO qualifies one for some consideration by mid-tier teams in Belgium or Turkey.

I would classify Miller as a slightly-above-average MLS defender.

Belgium, Scandinavia or Turkey would make sense.

[Soccerpro2]

2 hours ago, VinceA said:

Damn didn't know its time to turn on our boys.

It's not turning on anyone if someone has always felt that way.

If all the chatter during the world cup about Waterman or Miller were true, you'd expect offers (more than 1) and a move to another league. Montreal have been pretty open to letting players move on.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Soccerpro2

[Bison44]

HAHA, stats are deceiving, but I thought Waterman was good last night. Top rating...ieeee, maybe... nobody did much in the offensive end so its possible.  As for europe, he is a decent starting CB..not exactly young, he doesnt strike me as the kind of guy who is getting lucrative offers from overseas.  Miller is better (not top drawer mls, but definitly above average), a little younger and might still have some upside.  Even then, Miller is clearing 345k a year, is it worth running into a Lareaya type situation just for the sake of making a move??  I always think back to Henry, he could have stayed in MLS, honed his craft, become a top MLS defender...what would have been wrong with that?? Instead he had several lost years chasing europe and still ended up back in MLS.    

[Kadenge]

6 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

 I always think back to Henry, he could have stayed in MLS, honed his craft, become a top MLS defender...what would have been wrong with that?? Instead he had several lost years chasing europe and still ended up back in MLS.    

Henry's time in Europe was wrecked by a series of serious injuries. In the few games he played for Blackburn Rovers he performed very well. iirc he got MofM in his first game. Now perhaps the intensity of training/games in the Championship/Denmark was a factor with his injuries but there's no guaranty he would not have sustained similar injuries if he stayed with MLS

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

3 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

Henry's time in Europe was wrecked by a series of serious injuries. In the few games he played for Blackburn Rovers he performed very well. iirc he got MofM in his first game. Now perhaps the intensity of training/games in the Championship/Denmark was a factor with his injuries but there's no guaranty he would not have sustained similar injuries if he stayed with MLS

It was the West Ham curse. 

[An Observer]

I thought Waterman (which was his first match this year) was pretty good.  Definitely was much better playing the ball out of the back than the other two.  Miller I thought was pretty poor and when it can to substitutions, Miller was substituted and Waterman moved over to the left.  Camacho I thought had a decent match.

Yes, he pinched up to close down on the ball and was “turnstiled” as one poster says on the Shaffleburg goal and that was probably not the right play but he was “turnstiled” by last year’s MVP so I give him a bit of a pass.  He spotted the danger, tried to stop it before Mukhtar could control but got turned instead.

[Wasp]

12 hours ago, An Observer said:

I thought Waterman (which was his first match this year) was pretty good.  Definitely was much better playing the ball out of the back than the other two.  Miller I thought was pretty poor and when it can to substitutions, Miller was substituted and Waterman moved over to the left.  Camacho I thought had a decent match.

Yes, he pinched up to close down on the ball and was “turnstiled” as one poster says on the Shaffleburg goal and that was probably not the right play but he was “turnstiled” by last year’s MVP so I give him a bit of a pass.  He spotted the danger, tried to stop it before Mukhtar could control but got turned instead.

I agree - the Shaff goal has much more to do with Montreal's bizarre approach to attacking vs. an individual error by Waterman. Waterman and Miller were both way too involved in the final third, leaving Montreal exposed on the counter constantly. Montreal desperately need to figure out their attack because it looked like the plan was to pass the ball around the box until the CB's came down to overlap, which is an obviously terrible plan.

[BearcatSA]

He dove in, looking for the hero takeaway and got burned when instead he needed to contain and delay the opponent as his teammates made their recovery runs:  the basics you're taught when defending in youth soccer.  And it's too similar to what I saw in the goal vs Bahrain.

First game back from a knock, defending against the league MVP, whatever:  just a poor decision on that particular play.

 

[InglewoodJack]

When was the last competitive game Waterman played in before this weekend- the playoff loss against NYC? That was like 4 months ago. Plus, CF Montreal is complete ass, meaning guys like Miller and Waterman are going to look the worst considering their positions.

In terms of people overvaluing these guys or whatever, their transfer rumors come from them and "sources", not from posters making up nonsense. FWIW, Turkey and 2. Bundesliga were the rumors I heard. I'm not sure given what happened in Turkey if teams are going to be interested in investing in a 27 year old defender who they won't be able to flip down the line, but I think Miller is young enough and good enough to still have interest this summer.

 

WRT Laryea- that was a freak happenstance. NF was like 6th in the Championship when he was signed, they immediately rattled off a win streak and jumped into a fierce promotion race. Provided Miller doesn't jump to a team fighting for their promotion life, he'd get playing time in the championship, but I think Turkey is a good level for him. They have tax benefits for footballers, and even at his same salary now, he could pocket a ton more.

17 hours ago, Bison44 said:

 I always think back to Henry, he could have stayed in MLS, honed his craft, become a top MLS defender...what would have been wrong with that?? Instead he had several lost years chasing europe and still ended up back in MLS.    

From the player's POV, you have one career to live, might as well take it as far as you can. "I took the modest path and became a above average defender in the 15th best league in the world" doesn't have the same effect as "I played for West Ham" when Henry will be telling his grandkids about his playing days down the line. And for our purpose, in terms of effect on national team, we don't need good MLS defenders, we need good european defenders. Henry tried, it didn't work, that's the thing with risks, but our team wouldn't be better if he chose the other route, and his career would not be in a much better place either.