CONCACAF U-20 Championship (November 2018)

[Blackdude]

15 hours ago, 1996 said:

What a load of crap! Check out some of the players who played in the U20 World Cup that Canada hosted in 2017 . Have a look at the Argentina, Uruguay and even the US team , yup these countries sure didn’t send any of their best players at that age group did they ?  Who the hell is Cavani, Suarez and who is that Arguero guy? There is a guy named Bradley and a guy named Altidore who were those guys on that US team , must all be some B or C players those countries sent to Canada for that U20 World Cup in 2007! 

That was also 11 years ago. It's not the same now as it was 11 years ago. Sure, I went with one counter-example that worked, but Aguero wasn't playing for Argentina. Altidore wasn't playing for the US, same for Cavani. Suarez had less than 5 caps. If you want to talk about this. Where was Pulisic in 2017? Sometimes, some teams have one player with decent levels, but I only mentioned Davies, because Davies is a starter for Canada while the other players you mentioned weren't there aside from maybe Bradley. 

[Kent]

On 10/25/2018 at 9:46 PM, Kent said:

The same players that are eligible for qualifying are also eligible for the World Cup.

I have a tougher time picking between the Gold Cup and the U20 World Cup than I do with the November situation. I would probably still pick U20s over Gold Cup if I had to though. People are probably considering this a corner turned, but this might be our golden generation. They will have another shot at the Gold Cup, but won’t have another shot at the World Cup, and would be their first shot at the world stage.

I would like to amend this by saying if (big if) the Gold Cup results can qualify teams for the Copa America, funnel all the best players to the Gold Cup, even if it is at the expense of the U20 World Cup.

But I am getting way ahead of myself. We don’t know if CONCACAF teams will be invited to Copa America, or how they will be invited if they are, or if Canada will qualify for the U20 World Cup.

[BLennard]

On 10/24/2018 at 12:26 PM, Keegan said:

I think it’s kinda crazy they’re flying a keeper from Italy for a pre camp.  

Im seeing a lot of negative and ignorant comments on this kid. Ive had the chance of seeing him play against my brother when he was younger and still playing in Canada, and this guy, Im telling you, is something else. I started following his stats back then, and he would not let in more than 3-5 goals a season, and then boom, he suddenly disappeared and I forgot about him. It s only a year back somebody on this forum found him again and Ive been following him since. Yeah I know his stats from last season arent the most impressive, but who are we to judge, maybe his team in front of him isnt all that good. 

Im also following the AC Spezia page on Instagram and he seems to be regularly training with the first team. The team and the fans seem to like him a lot too. They even wished him a good training camp in Florida, and the post got relatively a lot of likes compared to their other posts. I wouldnt be surprised if he eventually took over the first spot as GK. I think the management forgot about him as did i, and that s why he has only been invited to the camp now. He s also the fifth most valuable Canadian born in 2000 according to transfermarkt. So here I am, posting a bold statement; Axel Desjardins is the future senior GK for Canada. You heard it here first.

 

[Zem]

18 minutes ago, BLennard said:

Im seeing a lot of negative and ignorant comments on this kid.

Nice of you to give some background, but I don't know where you've been seeing negative comments about him. @Keegan's quote certainly wasn't negative, he's just surprised at how far Desjardins is travelling just to train with the team when he isn't even on the main roster.

Generally speaking, the lack of hype for Desjardins is just because we on the board don't know much about him yet, but thanks for filling us in a bit.

[Bdog]

Yeah I haven't seen any negativity, why you heff to be mad. 

[BLennard]

Lol Im not mad, maybe just a poor choice of words by my part. I was just a bit upset that they were writing him off without knowing who he was or what was the intent to invite him to train. Im guessing they invited these players as a sort of tryouts. He isnt eligible now but he can still be eligible for the u20 finals. Like I said, i think Canada hasnt seen him play enough as he may have been forgotten (he doesnt play for a big team like busti). But no worries people, i am not mad. Canadian soccer looks brighter than ever, life is good.

[Bison44]

Uninformedis better, ignorant gets peoples back up, HAHA.  I didnt know much about Busti either, until the board started talking about him and he came to the Toulon tournie.  The 4 of the 5 "invites" were guys on this side of the pond, cheap flights to florida to practice with the team, bringing a guy from Italy just to practice was the strange part.  If you are following Desjardin closely keep us posted, we need more keeper prospects, and more posters that will sniff out hidden gems.    

[Jith12]

According to an article on the AC Spezia website, Desjardins left for Brandenton on October 23 and will arrive back in Italy on November 1. So it seems that the players who were listed as going just to attend camp will not be staying for the duration of the tournament.

https://www.acspezia.com/news/nazionali-desjardins-convocato-per-uno-stage-con-la-nazionale-canadese.19052.html

[soccer.shocker]

I think CSA has known about Desjardins for a while. I don't think Busti has joined the U20 team yet (but can't confirm for sure) but if that is the case Desjardins should be getting lots of time to impress, even if he is there only as a training player.  

[SpecialK]

9 minutes ago, soccer.shocker said:

I think CSA has known about Desjardins for a while. I don't think Busti has joined the U20 team yet (but can't confirm for sure) but if that is the case Desjardins should be getting lots of time to impress, even if he is there only as a training player.  

Busti has been named to the roster. Desjardins sounds like he’s the 3rd goalie,which is CSA Bias bs against European based players , yep I said it! There is no reason why Desjardins shouldn’t be the back-up. He plays a higher level than Hasal and has been called up to the senior team a bunch of times for the last 2 years. Ya has been on the bench but training against Serie B players is better than  MLS Academy players. 

[Bdog]

4 hours ago, BLennard said:

Lol Im not mad, maybe just a poor choice of words by my part. I was just a bit upset that they were writing him off without knowing who he was or what was the intent to invite him to train. Im guessing they invited these players as a sort of tryouts. He isnt eligible now but he can still be eligible for the u20 finals. Like I said, i think Canada hasnt seen him play enough as he may have been forgotten (he doesnt play for a big team like busti). But no worries people, i am not mad. Canadian soccer looks brighter than ever, life is good.

I just wanted to quote the great Bryzgalov.

[deschamp86]

9 hours ago, SpecialK said:

There is no reason why Desjardins shouldn’t be the back-up. He plays a higher level than Hasal and has been called up to the senior team a bunch of times for the last 2 years. Ya has been on the bench but training against Serie B players is better than  MLS Academy players. 

We don't see these players training at all. It is ridiculous to make comparisons on them based on which league their first team plays in

[BCM]

10 hours ago, SpecialK said:

Busti has been named to the roster. Desjardins sounds like he’s the 3rd goalie,which is CSA Bias bs against European based players , yep I said it! There is no reason why Desjardins shouldn’t be the back-up. He plays a higher level than Hasal and has been called up to the senior team a bunch of times for the last 2 years. Ya has been on the bench but training against Serie B players is better than  MLS Academy players. 

In the last 15-20 years we've had a lot of keepers at top Euro academies, with some getting first team bench time. None panned out, or even became decent pros (a few are mentioned a lot on these sites, but there's more. Zach Kalthoff immediately comes to mind). Meanwhile the kid from the Edmonton Ital-Canadians goes on to play hundreds of pro matches and earns 48 caps. Borjan's start was also less than usual, and certainly not in top leagues.

[SpecialK]

51 minutes ago, BCM1555362349 said:

In the last 15-20 years we've had a lot of keepers at top Euro academies, with some getting first team bench time. None panned out, or even became decent pros (a few are mentioned a lot on these sites, but there's more. Zach Kalthoff immediately comes to mind). Meanwhile the kid from the Edmonton Ital-Canadians goes on to play hundreds of pro matches and earns 48 caps. Borjan's start was also less than usual, and certainly not in top leagues.

 

1 hour ago, deschamp86 said:

We don't see these players training at all. It is ridiculous to make comparisons on them based on which league their first team plays in

There is a bias on the part of CSA against youth European based players. Just look at the last U17 team, this u20 team. Just remembered what Cristante brother said ( if that was really him). These young players not getting called up, they will go somewhere else. And it’s true! Just look at all the youth dual nationals 

Edited October 29, 2018 by SpecialK

[BCM]

3 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

 

There is a bias on the part of CSA for youth European based players. Just look at the last U17 team, this u20 team. Just remembered what Cristante brother said ( if that was really him). These young players not getting called up, they will go somewhere else. And it’s true! Just look at all the youth dual nationals 

First things first, even if true @deschamp86 and my point still holds - you can't judge a player based on the league.

I do agree our youth teams are North American heavy - I suspect that's simply a product of two factors (1) who our scouts (or maybe it's not plural) can see play on a regular basis; and (2) lack of money to get the overseas boys over for camps or our scout(s) over to their leagues. So I am not sure it's a bias for the North American player, just economic reality. Perhaps better and more frequent communication with these overseas players would be helpful to let them know they're in our minds.  

[jpg75]

...and yet 4 teenagers playing in Europe played in our last MNT match. CSA bias! blah, blah, blah.

[SpecialK]

1 hour ago, jpg75 said:

...and yet 4 teenagers playing in Europe played in our last MNT match. CSA bias! blah, blah, blah.

That’s the senior team not the youth teams! Read the post again 

[BLennard]

I can understand @SpecialK s point. Training with professionals is way more beneficial than training with academy players, especially when it comes to keepers. Last season, 2006 World Cup winner Alberto Gilardino was on the squad, and one thing that stays with age is shot power and accuracy. I m not saying that MLS academies are worst than Serie B, but in the GK department, Italians are masters. And if you look at the MLS, they sure are lacking in good quality goalies. Keeping is an art, you might have all the talent in the world, but if you don t make the right decisions or position yourself well enough, you ll just be an average one. One mistake is a mistake too much. Ive seen a couple of highlights from Axel, and he seems to be also quite good in the penalty department, which is something you learn through studying the game.

And lets not bullshit ourselves, the Italian style of play is tactically one step ahead of every other nations. Not saying the players are better though.

[jpg75]

15 minutes ago, SpecialK said:

That’s the senior team not the youth teams! Read the post again 

Oh i read it, it just doesn't make any sense.

[aloyol]

18 minutes ago, BLennard said:

I can understand @SpecialK s point. Training with professionals is way more beneficial than training with academy players, especially when it comes to keepers. Last season, 2006 World Cup winner Alberto Gilardino was on the squad, and one thing that stays with age is shot power and accuracy. I m not saying that MLS academies are worst than Serie B, but in the GK department, Italians are masters. And if you look at the MLS, they sure are lacking in good quality goalies. Keeping is an art, you might have all the talent in the world, but if you don t make the right decisions or position yourself well enough, you ll just be an average one. One mistake is a mistake too much. Ive seen a couple of highlights from Axel, and he seems to be also quite good in the penalty department, which is something you learn through studying the game.

And lets not bullshit ourselves, the Italian style of play is tactically one step ahead of every other nations. Not saying the players are better though.

Look at Roberto Stillo for a recent example of a keeper who was in a Serie A set up and never really made it at the pro level.

Over the years, we've had many examples of players playing in youth academy in Europe who didn't have a sniff at the pro level. And we also saw some players choosing to play 1-2-3 years in the NCAA and getting a decent pro career after all.

With young players, unless they are on a pro contrat, you can't just look at the academy where they are playing to judge their talent. You need to see them play.

I don't know waht this Desjardins is all about, but the good thing for him is that he'll have a chance to impress our U20 coaching staff.

[Bison44]

12 minutes ago, aloyol said:

Look at Roberto Stillo for a recent example of a keeper who was in a Serie A set up and never really made it at the pro level.

Over the years, we've had many examples of players playing in youth academy in Europe who didn't have a sniff at the pro level. And we also saw some players choosing to play 1-2-3 years in the NCAA and getting a decent pro career after all.

With young players, unless they are on a pro contrat, you can't just look at the academy where they are playing to judge their talent. You need to see them play.

I don't know waht this Desjardins is all about, but the good thing for him is that he'll have a chance to impress our U20 coaching staff.

Especially keepers...Pat Onstad (UBC) for example.  

[aloyol]

4 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Especially keepers...Pat Onstad (UBC) for example.  

Yes, Onstad is a good example.

Also, IIRC I think in 2005, we had many keepers who were in European youth academies (Thomas Lindley at Southampton I think, Giacomi at Rangers) and our starting keeper (Wagenaar) was playing in the NCAA at that time. Then, one or two years later, our starter is  back up in the Eredivisie and the other two were back in Canada.

It just shows you how tricky it is trying to evaluate youth players based on youth academies affiliation.

[BLennard]

Ok i understand what you guys are saying. I ll try to find as much footage of this guy as possible and make a compilation. What is also different with him is he s been there since he was at least 13 years old. Here is a little video i found of young him saving a pk from moise kean, which is pretty cool i guess.

 

[Fullback]

On 10/29/2018 at 9:15 AM, SpecialK said:

 

There is a bias on the part of CSA against youth European based players. Just look at the last U17 team, this u20 team. Just remembered what Cristante brother said ( if that was really him). These young players not getting called up, they will go somewhere else. And it’s true! Just look at all the youth dual nationals 

Just because someone plays in Europe it does not mean they are automatically better than our North American players. I would think that our MLS academies are better than one in Bulgaria or Serie C. Another point is most of our U 20 players in Europe that are dual nats might not want to play for us. Its simple to say call up Yankov or Bassong but they have to actually want to play for us.

[Toje]

4 hours ago, Fullback said:

Just because someone plays in Europe it does not mean they are automatically better than our North American players. I would think that our MLS academies are better than one in Bulgaria or Serie C. Another point is most of our U 20 players in Europe that are dual nats might not want to play for us. Its simple to say call up Yankov or Bassong but they have to actually want to play for us.

Just because someone plays in North America does not mean they are automatically better than European based players.   

It is tough to compare MLS academies with those in Croatia, Bulgaria or Serie C.  

I just want to see a Canadian team back at the U20 WYC, and I don't really care where the players are coming from.  At the 2001 WYC Canada had players from Wilfred Laurier University, 7 players from the NCAA but yet they managed to surpass expectations.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Toje