Noble Okello

[Obinna]

I haven't seen the game or even the highlights yet, but I have watched enough of Okello over the years to be pessimistic about his future in regardes to the national team. Blame it on Vanney, or TFC, or the player himself for not taking his limited chances, but whatever the truth is here's one thing that shouldn't be disputed: he's already 21 going on 22 years old. That's isn't really that young. 

What's interesting to me is that Baldisimo simply can't cut it defensively in MLS and thus he hasn't earned his spot on the field, but with Okello needs time because he is "young" and would be flourishing had TFC not squandered his developement.

The players are the same age, play the same position, but the narratives around them are drastically different. Why is that? Is it because Wolfsburg were interested in him ages ago?

[BearcatSA]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

I haven't seen the game or even the highlights yet, but I have watched enough of Okello over the years to be pessimistic about his future in regardes to the national team. Blame it on Vanney, or TFC, or the player himself for not taking his limited chances, but whatever the truth is here's one thing that shouldn't be disputed: he's already 21 going on 22 years old. That's isn't really that young. 

What's interesting to me is that Baldisimo simply can't cut it defensively in MLS and thus he hasn't earned his spot on the field, but with Okello needs time because he is "young" and would be flourishing had TFC not squandered his developement.

The players are the same age, play the same position, but the narratives around them are drastically different. Why is that? Is it because Wolfsburg were interested in him ages ago?

Okello looks great getting off the bus, not unlike Theo Bair, so there is that eye test bias in his favour.  I remember way, way back when a few posters here hoped Kevin Harmse was going to be the second, late blooming coming of Michael Ballack or Michael Essien because he was with Becks in LA.  He also had that eye test on his side but was just a non-factor as a player (for old time Canucks fans, think Jim Sandlak)

In his brief appearance last night, Baldisimo showed some good (his pass set up the winner from the scramble) and some not so good (got his pocket picked by Honduran veteran hardman Roger Espinoza leading to a dangerous counter) but like you say, he seems to be perceived as having a lower ceiling.  I personally feel that this will be his last year at the club if he doesn't make a breakthrough as a regular starter.

Edited April 3, 2022 by BearcatSA

[Bison44]

35 minutes ago, Obinna said:

 What's interesting to me is that Baldisimo simply can't cut it defensively in MLS and thus he hasn't earned his spot on the field, but with Okello needs time because he is "young" and would be flourishing had TFC not squandered his developement.

The players are the same age, play the same position, but the narratives around them are drastically different. Why is that? Is it because Wolfsburg were interested in him ages ago?

I think you are listening to the wrong guys.  I would say that its a similar story with both.  Although being a TFC fan i have followed Okello closer and he does seem to have imposing physical skills/strengths for a mid that Baldy doesnt.  Baldisimo does get a lot of abuse on the VAN thread that I dont think he deserves, its prob easier for him to work on his defensive duties than to get Okello be more assertive or to develop a sweet passing game.  But you are dead on, neither are very young anymore and need to put it all together or the teams will move on from them.  

[dyslexic nam]

38 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I haven't seen the game or even the highlights yet, but I have watched enough of Okello over the years to be pessimistic about his future in regardes to the national team. Blame it on Vanney, or TFC, or the player himself for not taking his limited chances, but whatever the truth is here's one thing that shouldn't be disputed: he's already 21 going on 22 years old. That's isn't really that young. 

What's interesting to me is that Baldisimo simply can't cut it defensively in MLS and thus he hasn't earned his spot on the field, but with Okello needs time because he is "young" and would be flourishing had TFC not squandered his developement.

The players are the same age, play the same position, but the narratives around them are drastically different. Why is that? Is it because Wolfsburg were interested in him ages ago?

I think it is just down to the fact the Okello brings unique (in the CMNT context) physical potential to the table.  He is almost 6’ 5” which offers great dead ball opportunities and huge potential in the air as a ball-winning midfielder.  Not to mention the ability to cover huge amounts of space if he trains for speed. If he could reach that next level, we would have a type of player we have never really seen in the national team context.  Contrast with Raposo who doesn’t have that sort it unique profile.  May be a solid player and may eventually outshine Okello - but there will be things that Okello could do just as a result of his make up that Raposo (and most other footballers) will simply never be able to do.  

I have noticed that Okello seems to use his head more than I can recall in his very early appearances for TFC.  Early on he seemed to actually head the ball less than many guys - now he seems willing to attack the ball in the air.  If he can get a handle on that part of the game it will give him a huge advantage.  
 

[SpursFlu]

I think when people saw a 6'4" teenager playing midfield at that level they thought how can this go wrong? If it was only that easy

[Gian-Luca]

52 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I haven't seen the game or even the highlights yet, but I have watched enough of Okello over the years to be pessimistic about his future in regardes to the national team. Blame it on Vanney, or TFC, or the player himself for not taking his limited chances, but whatever the truth is here's one thing that shouldn't be disputed: he's already 21 going on 22 years old. That's isn't really that young. 

What's interesting to me is that Baldisimo simply can't cut it defensively in MLS and thus he hasn't earned his spot on the field, but with Okello needs time because he is "young" and would be flourishing had TFC not squandered his developement.

The players are the same age, play the same position, but the narratives around them are drastically different. Why is that? Is it because Wolfsburg were interested in him ages ago?

That may in part be due to who is playing ahead of him in the midfield at their respective clubs. Baldisimo had mediocre MLS players ahead of him at Vancouver, not sure that the same could be said of TFC even when Delgado (who, despite opinion on this board, is a legit MLS starter as far as Greg Vanney is concerned) was there. You can certainly argue that Bradley is mediocre now, but that doesn't mean that dislodging him from the starting roster as a TAM player and his dad as the coach and as club captain is going to be any easier. So Okello seems more "up and coming" for that reason whereas Baldisimo might be seen to have not grabbed more of an open oppurtunity that Noble has had.

I think Bradley Sr. though is going to be pretty good for all the Canucks at TFC, the only ones who haven't yet gotten off the mark well are Kerr & Priso, and the latter can at least be partly explained by coming off an injury and thus being behind the pace in pre-season. Okello looks like he is progressing under Bob.

[BearcatSA]

26 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I think it is just down to the fact the Okello brings unique (in the CMNT context) physical potential to the table.  He is almost 6’ 5” which offers great dead ball opportunities and huge potential in the air as a ball-winning midfielder.  Not to mention the ability to cover huge amounts of space if he trains for speed. If he could reach that next level, we would have a type of player we have never really seen in the national team context. 

Those are the eye test "measurables" (which I guess the NFL draft geeks call them) that provide the higher potential views from observers.  They buy a player a bit more opportunity and leeway.  Tosaint Ricketts has forged a long journeyman's career out of his pace/quickness and some instincts but never developed technical slills in such things as shielding and/or drawing fouls. 

[Obinna]

Good points by all, thanks.

As Gian-Luca says, he does seem to be progressing more under bob than before, though I wonder how much of it is Bob's coaching and/or belief in him, or he is simply blooming later than we expected. Either way things are looking up for him at the club level. As for the national team, there's still a ways to go, but he maybe he could get a look during nations league. For now he's jumped Priso, but with Kone getting recent NT looks and starting regularly for Montreal, he's likely behind him and likely Harry Paton, who we have yet to see.

I am somewhat biased towards Baldisimo (love his passing range and I still hold onto the idea he can be effective with the proper partner, though it's getting harder to cling onto this position), but the way things are going I wouldn't be surprised to see Okello before Baldisimo in a NT shirt. 

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, BearcatSA said:

Those are the eye test "measurables" (which I guess the NFL draft geeks call them) that provide the higher potential views from observers.  They buy a player a bit more opportunity and leeway.  Tosaint Ricketts has forged a long journeyman's career out of his pace/quickness and some instincts but never developed technical slills in such things as shielding and/or drawing fouls. 

I think this is where the frusturation comes from as well, at least for me. I think most of us get the sense he's being valued for those eye test "measurables", but so far we've rarely seen him putting them to use and at 21/22 I am not hopeful he'll ever learn to throw his size around and bully opposition. 

[BearcatSA]

14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I am somewhat biased towards Baldisimo (love his passing range and I still hold onto the idea he can be effective with the proper partner, though it's getting harder to cling onto this position), but the way things are going I wouldn't be surprised to see Okello before Baldisimo in a NT shirt. 

When @spitfire wrote about the problems Liam's fit in the NT scheme, I immediately thought of Baldi in Vancouver because I honestly thought he could be a good fit as part of the 2 in a 4-2-3-1, where he is paired with a "destroyer" and he can stay deeper lying.  However, his ball protection/shielding hasn't been good enough when under basic 1 v 1 pressure, so unless there is an upgrade there he won't be in this country's senior NT shirt.

[gigi riva]

Bradley senior  is  definatly having a affect on Okello . i still think he is a project and still neds some good coaching . 

[costarg]

17 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

When @spitfire wrote about the problems Liam's fit in the NT scheme, I immediately thought of Baldi in Vancouver because I honestly thought he could be a good fit as part of the 2 in a 4-2-3-1, where he is paired with a "destroyer" and he can stay deeper lying.  However, his ball protection/shielding hasn't been good enough when under basic 1 v 1 pressure, so unless there is an upgrade there he won't be in this country's senior NT shirt.

I've stated the same regarding Baldi, yes he needs to be paired with a destroyer in order to be successful.  Piette would probably be a great fit.  But there is also something else we need to consider.  He's a great passer, yes, so I understand the theory about him being useful on the field, however would you really build a team and system around him?  How about when either him or Piette are injured, who steps in and continues with the system?

Pirlo was also a great distributor, one of the best ever, some coaches even passed on him due to refusing to build a team and system around his play.  However.... have you ever watched clips of guys trying to get the ball off Pirlo?  It was nearly impossible.  Same can't be said about Baldi.  All he can do is pass, there is no other dimension to his game.  That's why many don't rate him.

[Aird25]

22 minutes ago, costarg said:

I've stated the same regarding Baldi, yes he needs to be paired with a destroyer in order to be successful.  Piette would probably be a great fit.  But there is also something else we need to consider.  He's a great passer, yes, so I understand the theory about him being useful on the field, however would you really build a team and system around him?  How about when either him or Piette are injured, who steps in and continues with the system?

Pirlo was also a great distributor, one of the best ever, some coaches even passed on him due to refusing to build a team and system around his play.  However.... have you ever watched clips of guys trying to get the ball off Pirlo?  It was nearly impossible.  Same can't be said about Baldi.  All he can do is pass, there is no other dimension to his game.  That's why many don't rate him.

His brother would be a good midfield partner. He does everything Michael doesn’t 

[ECW]

On 4/3/2022 at 1:09 PM, SpursFlu said:

I think when people saw a 6'4" teenager playing midfield at that level they thought how can this go wrong? If it was only that easy

He showed real skills on the ball early on. Then seemed to lose his way overall. But most of TFC lost their way. Bob Bradley should be able to aid his development. 

[El Diego]

I still don't know what to make of him. Armas played him as a 10 and Okello did some things in the CCL that were... extremely interesting. But since then he's been moved deeper, at times playing as the pivot in a three. Bob's got him in a midfield two now which makes some sense. If he can get that elusive, I dunno what you'd call it -- "jam" to his game, he could be great.

Bob has him ahead of Priso right now, which is saying something...

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, El Diego said:

I still don't know what to make of him. Armas played him as a 10 and Okello did some things in the CCL that were... extremely interesting. But since then he's been moved deeper, at times playing as the pivot in a three. Bob's got him in a midfield two now which makes some sense. If he can get that elusive, I dunno what you'd call it -- "jam" to his game, he could be great.

Bob has him ahead of Priso right now, which is saying something...

This may simply be Okello being ahead of Priso due to fitness, then sharpness. The most fit players are going to get minutes at the beginning of the season. Then, if you're Okello and getting minutes you're probably going to be sharper than Priso, who is now fit but may not be sharp, if you know what I mean.

They may also be investing in Okello because of his age (late stage young player). Priso can be brought on more slowly. Okello is basically in Frasers position the season before he went on loan. Now is the time to see if Okello has it or not.

Or option C, Bradley just honest to goodness rates Okello ahead of Priso, which is somewhere in the realm of possibility. 

[Corazon]

16 minutes ago, Obinna said:

This may simply be Okello being ahead of Priso due to fitness, then sharpness. The most fit players are going to get minutes at the beginning of the season. Then, if you're Okello and getting minutes you're probably going to be sharper than Priso, who is now fit but may not be sharp, if you know what I mean.

They may also be investing in Okello because of his age (late stage young player). Priso can be brought on more slowly. Okello is basically in Frasers position the season before he went on loan. Now is the time to see if Okello has it or not.

Or option C, Bradley just honest to goodness rates Okello ahead of Priso, which is somewhere in the realm of possibility. 

On the broadcast for one of Toronto FC's games (maybe the 3rd game?) it was mentioned that Bradley has been going with Okello because he has been brighter and better than Priso in preseason and to start the season.  Perhaps Priso is still finding his feet from his injury?  Perhaps Priso is having trouble fitting into Bradley's system (has struggled in the limited minutes he's seen this season)?  One thing for sure is that Priso was by far the best of the young Canadian's last season so I'm really intrigued to see how this plays out.  Ideally, Michael Bradley would be given less minutes and a lesser role but that seems highly unlikely.

[Obinna]

21 minutes ago, Corazon said:

On the broadcast for one of Toronto FC's games (maybe the 3rd game?) it was mentioned that Bradley has been going with Okello because he has been brighter and better than Priso in preseason and to start the season.  Perhaps Priso is still finding his feet from his injury?  Perhaps Priso is having trouble fitting into Bradley's system (has struggled in the limited minutes he's seen this season)?  One thing for sure is that Priso was by far the best of the young Canadian's last season so I'm really intrigued to see how this plays out.  Ideally, Michael Bradley would be given less minutes and a lesser role but that seems highly unlikely.

I recall that. It may speak to points 1 and 3 more so than point 2.

[dyslexic nam]

What’s the scoop with Okello?  Is he injured?  Hasn’t been in the lineup for a bit (even the V Cup which would be prime opportunity) so I assume he isn’t available.  

[reggietfc]

14 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

What’s the scoop with Okello?  Is he injured?  Hasn’t been in the lineup for a bit (even the V Cup which would be prime opportunity) so I assume he isn’t available.  

yes injured

[CanadaSantos]

15 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

What’s the scoop with Okello?  Is he injured?  Hasn’t been in the lineup for a bit (even the V Cup which would be prime opportunity) so I assume he isn’t available.  

He's been injured. According to Steve Buffery he and Mavinga are back on the pitch but still a bit away.

[canuckgbp]

We have a small update

 

[hodgkiss]

Will be great to have Okello back. The big man reminds me so much of Paul Pogba. Tall, strong, has some pace, can score, defend and also move the ball forward. I think we will see much more of him in the next year or two for club and country. the one thing that appears to need some work is heading the ball.

[VinceA]

7 minutes ago, hodgkiss said:

Will be great to have Okello back. The big man reminds me so much of Paul Pogba. Tall, strong, has some pace, can score, defend and also move the ball forward. I think we will see much more of him in the next year or two for club and country. the one thing that appears to need some work is heading the ball.

You and I have a very different outlook on Noble Okello. He has not looked good whenever he's played. He has no concept of his size and doesn't know how to use it.

[hodgkiss]

Ya maybe I do. But a guy like Jayden Nelson didn't look very good a few years ago. He was constantly knocked off the ball and made some pretty bad decisions. He has made some great decisions this year, has some fantastic pace and has been a tougher to get the ball from - and fights to get the ball back. My point is, with younger players, it's important to see potential and I believe that Okello has that. He needs more consistent minutes - so if he's not getting them with the big team, he needs to be playing for TFCII or a loan with a club where he can play. He has a lot of potential.