CPL General

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

And a national league where two-thirds of the teams are from southern Ontario could be good for the game in Canada. But it would be bad for the non-Ontarian teams in the league.

I’m not trying to argue this point but what’s your rationale for it, and do you mean bad in terms of perception, competitiveness, or otherwise?

[jonovision]

32 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I’m not trying to argue this point but what’s your rationale for it, and do you mean bad in terms of perception, competitiveness, or otherwise?

A league where most of the teams are based in one region will inevitably make decisions that benefit those teams. It would be silly not to. Not to mention the built-in advantages those teams would enjoy in terms of travel, developing rivalries, etc. \

The perception would be an issue too: I don't think the Valour fanbase would get excited about a steady stream of minor Ontario cities visiting town, but they haven't been excited about much so far yet so maybe that's not a point worth discussing.

[ray]

I wonder whether Guelph could support the CPL on its own.  But what if a CPL club represented the region Kitchener-Waterloo/Guelph with some split of the home games?  Would that fly?  It might be a challenge for marketing the team but it could be done.  For CPL to grow beyond 10-12 teams it will need some representation from mid-size cities.

Edited May 13, 2022 by ray
redundant word

[Kingston]

18 hours ago, Ansem said:

I'd like to read people thoughts on Kitchener-Waterloo as a market, did the Guelph game convinced you?

No, the Guelph game didn't (which is not to say that the KW market doesn't have possibilities.)

First, while the attendance was excellent for an L1O team, it was far smaller than would be needed for the CPL.

Second, it was for a special, one-time event.  That's not a good measure.  It's like when people say things like, "The CWNT drew 20 000 fans for a World Cup qualifier against the US - let's start a women's pro league right away!"

Third, having previously lived in both Waterloo and Guelph, Guelph is really outside the KW market.  If you want a CPL team in the area, put it on the LRT in KW.  Some Guelph fans will probably come, but KW is the actual market.

[m-g-williams]

13 hours ago, jonovision said:

A major issue with this idea is that there are few of these kinds of cities (university facilities, decent population, say 100k+) outside of Ontario. None in Alberta, none in Manitoba, none in the Maritimes. 

Moncton still fits the bill perfectly. : ) 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Guelph has a metro area population of 165,000 while K/W has 575,000 and London 545,000. Probably not quite big enough to enter the conversation seriously in other words because 200,000 has been mentioned as the minimum market size but not too far off if the economic model was downscaled.

One thing that's never been fully clear is what the CanPL investors see as the end game privately when they don't need to pay lip service in press releases to anybody else's agendas by mentioning also having a women's pro league down the road as an aspiration, etc. The hired help like Paul B talked about scope for teams in markets like Kelowna, Barrie and Moncton and pro/rel on podcasts but a lot of the earlier rhetoric was about the CFL franchises running a soccer league on the side in their stadia as part of attracting a solo World Cup hosting.

Actions speak louder than words sometimes. If they are ignoring Claude Robillard as a viable stadium option in the Montreal area and don't want anything to do with university stadia where expansion is concerned that would be more consistent with a CFL type model being their goal rather than the vision Paul B used to peddle of an ever expanding soccer ecosystem with multiple divisions. Whether they are actually serious about expanding to Windsor or it was just a face saving way to punt David Clanachan out into the long grass is the litmus test for what their intentions are where regional Ontario is concerned. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Aird25]

This is all entirely too much strategizing and top down control in my mind. Set the requirements for each division and if clubs can match them then let them in. If they can't, put them in a division that they can match the requirements. Once there are too many teams for a division introduce promotion and relegation and let the results decide where teams play. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Aird25

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, m-g-williams said:

Moncton still fits the bill perfectly. : ) 

Moncton is never the answer.  Moncton is a suburb with no city core.  It is a dark hole in the eastern part of the country.  It is a place where 24 hour doughnut shops run out of doughnuts and happiness goes to die.  It's biggest attractions are a wave in a river and a tourist-fleecing, one story high hill.  It's best feature is a decent airport because that means you can leave quickly for some place that is not Moncton.

More seriously, I don't think cities in that size range are big enough.

But even if it were big enough, it would still be Moncton, so no.

[Bison44]

Hmmm, did Moncton sleep with your sister Kingston...you've got a real grudge against them, HAHAHA.  

[Zem]

2 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Moncton is never the answer.  Moncton is a suburb with no city core.  It is a dark hole in the eastern part of the country.  It is a place where 24 hour doughnut shops run out of doughnuts and happiness goes to die.  It's biggest attractions are a wave in a river and a tourist-fleecing, one story high hill.  It's best feature is a decent airport because that means you can leave quickly for some place that is not Moncton.

This is just a description of every small city in southern ontario

[Ansem]

I`d like to think that a potential rivalries with Halifax and ultimately Quebec City would attract fans...also, not much going on there besides CPL potentially

[Kingston]

13 minutes ago, Zem said:

This is just a description of every small city in southern ontario

Nope.  Kingston is lovely.  Peterborough has some cool features.  Guelph is great.  North Bay has spectacular views.  Sudbury has a strong identity.  

Even in New Brunswick, Fredericton is quaint.  Saint John is industrial but at least owns it.  Moncton is a smear of big box stores and fast food restaurants that someone hung a name on.

[Kingston]

15 minutes ago, Ansem said:

I`d like to think that a potential rivalries with Halifax and ultimately Quebec City would attract fans...also, not much going on there besides CPL potentially

Rivalries have not, so far, proven to move the attendance needle in the CPL.  If you look at a year's worth of attendance data for a given team you can't pick out the big rivalry game.

You are correct about one thing, though - there is nothing going on in Moncton.

[Unnamed Trialist]

30 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Moncton is never the answer.  Moncton is a suburb with no city core.  It is a dark hole in the eastern part of the country.  It is a place where 24 hour doughnut shops run out of doughnuts and happiness goes to die.  It's biggest attractions are a wave in a river and a tourist-fleecing, one story high hill.  It's best feature is a decent airport because that means you can leave quickly for some place that is not Moncton.

More seriously, I don't think cities in that size range are big enough.

But even if it were big enough, it would still be Moncton, so no.

Any place where cars roll uphill is good enough for me.

[m-g-williams]

40 minutes ago, Kingston said:

 It is a dark hole in the eastern part of the country.  It is a place where . . . happiness goes to die.  It's biggest attractions are a wave in a river . . . 

I said *Moncton*  - this description is clearly about Saint John. 

[Kent]

Can anyone from New Brunswick speak to whether soccer fans from Fredericton or Saint John would go to Moncton to catch the occasional game? Google is telling me it's about 1.5 to 2 hours from those cities. Maybe a big ask before any history/attachment is built up, but I don't know if people there are used to driving between those cities, and if the lack of pro sports would be enough of a pull to make that kind of drive a couple times a year. 

Edited May 13, 2022 by Kent
I somehow wrote "New Brunswich". I'm going to assume it's because I'm planning on going to a pub tonight with Brunswick in the name, and I do like to eat pulled pork sandwiches at a pub.

[m-g-williams]

9 minutes ago, Kent said:

Can anyone from New Brunswich speak to whether soccer fans from Fredericton or Saint John would go to Moncton to catch the occasional game? Google is telling me it's about 1.5 to 2 hours from those cities. Maybe a big ask before any history/attachment is built up, but I don't know if people there are used to driving between those cities, and if the lack of pro sports would be enough of a pull to make that kind of drive a couple times a year. 

I'm a Bluenoser myself, but I have plenty of friends in Fredericton and other spots around NB that head into Moncton on a semi-regular basis for different things (concerts, shopping, etc.). It was always the same for me as a kid growing up in rural NS. You can go to Sydney or Truro for certain things, but a lot of activities/purchases mean a trip to Halifax/Dartmouth. 

The one additional point I'd raise for Moncton is location. It's much more geographically central than any other city in the Maritimes, so it's relatively easy for folks in NB, PEI and parts of NS to get there in just a couple of hours. A Moncton CPL team could probably count on some decent support from surrounding areas. 

And come on - you just *know* the rivalry with Halifax would be wicked. 

[Lurker]

We'll never know but I'd be willing to bet a team in Dartmouth might draw more in the CPL than a team in Moncton... you said you wanted a rivalry!

[m-g-williams]

Probably a long-shot, but maybe the Premier Performer competition is coming back? 

https://canpl.ca/premier-performer/

[chalms04]

1 hour ago, m-g-williams said:

Probably a long-shot, but maybe the Premier Performer competition is coming back? 

https://canpl.ca/premier-performer/

 

[Watchmen]

On 5/12/2022 at 11:04 AM, Ansem said:

I'd like to read people thoughts on Kitchener-Waterloo as a market, did the Guelph game convinced you?

The Guelph game didn't convince me of a CPL team for the area.  What I think it did do is underline that the Voyageurs Cup should be expanded to include more L1 teams in the future - give more communities a chance to host that "one off event" that promotes and exposes them to the L1 product.  1 team from each league just doesn't seem like enough.

[toontownman]

On 5/13/2022 at 1:16 PM, m-g-williams said:

Probably a long-shot, but maybe the Premier Performer competition is coming back? 

https://canpl.ca/premier-performer/

Close!

 

[RS]

15 minutes ago, toontownman said:

Close!

 

@chalms04 called it.

[narduch]

Standings are pretty crazy.

[Aird25]

35 minutes ago, narduch said:

Standings are pretty crazy.

Feels pretty normal to me