CPL General

[Kingston]

19 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Leaving aside for now the more critical aspects of why the league ultimately does need to be sustainable, I'm not sure that's really the case if it was still being marketed as Canada's top domestic league. The sort of people who are interested now are still likely to be interested if there are regional conferences rather than a balanced national schedule and fewer imports like Tobias Warschewski, and the sort of people that will only watch the English Premiership or Serie A will also keep doing their thing regardless.

I understand where you're going with this, but I don't think it's entirely correct.  If it was, we would have seen much larger crowds for L1O, especially before the arrival of the CPL.  It's not just about hard core fans going to see local games at whatever the highest available level is.  The level does matter to some extent.

[Aird25]

42 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Leaving aside for now the more critical aspects of why the league ultimately does need to be sustainable, I'm not sure that's really the case if it was still being marketed as Canada's top domestic league. The sort of people who are interested now are still likely to be interested if there are regional conferences rather than a balanced national schedule and fewer imports like Tobias Warschewski, and the sort of people that will only watch the English Premiership or Serie A will also keep doing their thing regardless.

In my experience bringing many people to Pacific/Edmonton/Highlanders games, most of which do not follow sports and certainly don't follow English Premiership or Serie A, I think they would be far more likely to return on a regular basis if they perceived the competition as greater. I imagine actual quality has very little influence for these people, but I think a big part of it is salary, crowds, and not having teams in the big cities or on TV. Regionalizing the league would probably exacerbate the problem

Edited May 19, 2022 by Aird25

[johnyb]

On 5/18/2022 at 11:18 AM, m-g-williams said:

Honest question for the folks here from Winnipeg: Would you say that attendance dropped off after the novelty wore off, or because of Valour's resolutely "meh" performance in the last few years (or both)? It seems like Winnipeg has the potential to be a great CPL market, but I can understand how people might lose interest if the flashy new product isn't quite what people had hoped for. 

Both, to save the time of me writing and you reading just refer to Cheeta's post.

[Unnamed Trialist]

17 hours ago, Aird25 said:

In my experience bringing many people to Pacific/Edmonton/Highlanders games, most of which do not follow sports and certainly don't follow English Premiership or Serie A, I think they would be far more likely to return on a regular basis if they perceived the competition as greater. I imagine actual quality has very little influence for these people, but I think a big part of it is salary, crowds, and not having teams in the big cities or on TV. Regionalizing the league would probably exacerbate the problem

One of the few times I've seen Pacific I brought an old friend who's a fan, but casual, and his adult son who's also played. Guys who'll go to a few games a year maybe.

The only complaint they had was that for that level of play, the ticket price is too high. Which I would agree with. You are at a barely pro level, there are still some details that are lower league, and the corresponding price has to reflect that. They likely can't make that work, but you can appreciate even casual fans do perceive value and have an idea what it's worth.

I think especially at the bigger venues, they should price some sections very favourably, but I really don't know if it would make a difference.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

18 hours ago, Kingston said:

I understand where you're going with this, but I don't think it's entirely correct.  If it was, we would have seen much larger crowds for L1O, ...

Until very recently most L1O clubs were making no effort to market their games as a spectator event. I really don't think there's a parallel there. Will be interesting to see what happens with Electric City and Simcoe County though.

[Ftduck]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I think especially at the bigger venues, they should price some sections very favourably, but I really don't know if it would make a difference.

I've always wondered why the big venues dont release certain entire sections at say $10 a seat. Wouldnt it be better to potentially have those sections full than sparsely occupied? In Hamilton the concessions look busy and lots of beer is being sold.

Reasons  for not doing this:

Too cheap a ticket makes it perceived as amateur, harder to increase prices if/when significantly more people start coming, more staff required that the cheap tickets dont cover the cost of. 

Anyone else have any ideas why too cheap a ticket is a bad idea? 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Think you'll find section 112 is kept back for group sales at Valour games that are probably heavily discounted.

[Unnamed Trialist]

22 minutes ago, Ftduck said:

I've always wondered why the big venues dont release certain entire sections at say $10 a seat. Wouldnt it be better to potentially have those sections full than sparsely occupied? In Hamilton the concessions look busy and lots of beer is being sold.

Reasons  for not doing this:

Too cheap a ticket makes it perceived as amateur, harder to increase prices if/when significantly more people start coming, more staff required that the cheap tickets dont cover the cost of. 

Anyone else have any ideas why too cheap a ticket is a bad idea? 

In Spain third tier plenty of teams sell General Admission at around 15€. Then, if you want to sit in the main stand, covered, maybe 30. 

At Barça the women's team is heavily discounted. Consequence: fill Camp Nou with two matches in the CL. I went as a club member for free in fact.

15,000 going to the women's CL final tomorrow, they gave a free ticket and an 80€ bus there and back for the first three thousand club members. Others then had to pay like 15-25€ or so for the ticket. The point is to drive interest, get a fan base, raise marketing and social media hits, draw in sponsors. 

Regular league games they get 4-5000 out. 

It is pretty similar with the B team, which has future stars and some guys who've played for the first team. Low prices. 

Do you think that is devaluing the team? 

[Ftduck]

34 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Do you think that is devaluing the team?

Absolutely not. Sounds like smart marketing to me. I just wonder if our local owners perceive cheap tickets as amateur ish.

[Aird25]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

One of the few times I've seen Pacific I brought an old friend who's a fan, but casual, and his adult son who's also played. Guys who'll go to a few games a year maybe.

The only complaint they had was that for that level of play, the ticket price is too high. Which I would agree with. You are at a barely pro level, there are still some details that are lower league, and the corresponding price has to reflect that. They likely can't make that work, but you can appreciate even casual fans do perceive value and have an idea what it's worth.

I think especially at the bigger venues, they should price some sections very favourably, but I really don't know if it would make a difference.

I completely agree that the ticket prices are too high for regular Pacific games. So are beer and concession prices. I guarantee my friends would go much more often, and end up spending more money at the concession if they didn't mark everything up so bloody much. Even though many of them aren't huge fans it's a fun place to go hang out and have a few. Not at these current prices though

[Unnamed Trialist]

14 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I completely agree that the ticket prices are too high for regular Pacific games. So are beer and concession prices. I guarantee my friends would go much more often, and end up spending more money at the concession if they didn't mark everything up so bloody much. Even though many of them aren't huge fans it's a fun place to go hang out and have a few. Not at these current prices though

Just a question: if you walk-up do you get face value or are there still fees, like you'd find on Ticketmaster?

I mean, I appreciate that 25-30 is not excessive, but they could make the supporter stand bigger, add that other side of it and put the beer garden elsewhere (that looks dumb and they lose seating). 

When they have a new "pole" stand they may be able to reduce the West stand more as they sell more on the new one.

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Ftduck said:

I've always wondered why the big venues dont release certain entire sections at say $10 a seat. Wouldnt it be better to potentially have those sections full than sparsely occupied? In Hamilton the concessions look busy and lots of beer is being sold.

Reasons  for not doing this:

Too cheap a ticket makes it perceived as amateur, harder to increase prices if/when significantly more people start coming, more staff required that the cheap tickets dont cover the cost of. 

Anyone else have any ideas why too cheap a ticket is a bad idea? 

Because it doesn't necessarily increase demand, and rather than sell more tickets you could end up selling roughly as many but for a cheaper price.  And I suspect that much like both the NHL and the CFL, a large percentage of the CPL revenue comes from ticket sales.

[johnyb]

4 hours ago, Ftduck said:

I've always wondered why the big venues dont release certain entire sections at say $10 a seat. Wouldnt it be better to potentially have those sections full than sparsely occupied? In Hamilton the concessions look busy and lots of beer is being sold.

Reasons  for not doing this:

Too cheap a ticket makes it perceived as amateur, harder to increase prices if/when significantly more people start coming, more staff required that the cheap tickets dont cover the cost of. 

Anyone else have any ideas why too cheap a ticket is a bad idea? 

Speaking to a GM of a small market team he was opposed to offering Free tickets because it pisses off Paying Season Ticket holders. You cant offer "value" in your season tickets if anyone can get into the game for free. I agree.

[jonovision]

17 minutes ago, johnyb said:

Speaking to a GM of a small market team he was opposed to offering Free tickets because it pisses off Paying Season Ticket holders. You cant offer "value" in your season tickets if anyone can get into the game for free. I agree.

This is a trade-off that owners would have to consider, but the potential penalty of incurring the wrath of STHs is smaller the fewer STHs there are.

[gwsmith63]

1 hour ago, jonovision said:

This is a trade-off that owners would have to consider, but the potential penalty of incurring the wrath of STHs is smaller the fewer STHs there are.

IMO, if it pisses off one paying customer then the damage word of mouth can do is dangerous to the brand and product. 

[jonovision]

4 hours ago, gwsmith63 said:

IMO, if it pisses off one paying customer then the damage word of mouth can do is dangerous to the brand and product. 

So what would your thoughts be if the Eddies tried a $5 tickets night and got 3000 fans out? Would that be a net negative for the team because they pissed off a handful of their few STHs?

Edited May 21, 2022 by jonovision

[Stanley]

1 minute ago, jonovision said:

So what would your thoughts be if the Eddies tried a $5 tickets night and got 3000 fans out? Would that be a net negative for the team because they pissed off a handful of their few STHs?

It would never happen.

[JamboAl]

9 minutes ago, jonovision said:

So what would your thoughts be if the Eddies tried a $5 tickets night and got 3000 fans out? Would that be a net negative for the team because they pissed off a handful of their few STHs?

If it was a one off, then as a STH, I would have no issues.  But if it was repeated a few times, then what is the point of anyone buying season tickets?  

[gwsmith63]

11 hours ago, jonovision said:

So what would your thoughts be if the Eddies tried a $5 tickets night and got 3000 fans out? Would that be a net negative for the team because they pissed off a handful of their few STHs?

I would say yes. The people that buy season tickets do so for a reason; they are invested in their Club.  They are the key to success or failure over the long haul.  There is more chance of them convincing friends and family to join them, hopefully, in a similar commitment. 

Making a quick buck on a gimmick, IMO, isn’t the right way to sell your Club.  It might be great for a slight boost in revenue and Club promotion but in the end could lead to some upset ST holders which may have a negative impact. 

Bottom line for me is; Why would a Club in a somewhat fledgling League, one where loyalty and customer satisfaction is more than likely a large part of its success, want to piss anyone off for any reason?

However, while we can disagree on this, we can both be correct. All good. 
 

 

Edited May 21, 2022 by gwsmith63

[Cblake]

Interesting that one of Canada's largest banks, CIBC is a jersey sponsor for a NWSL team in Chicago and not in the CPL?

[youllneverwalkalone]

I've always hated CIBC.

[RS]

CIBC is big in the Chicago area (as is BMO).

[SadOnMondays]

CIBC is even the shoulder sponsor for Chicago fire. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

I've always hated CIBC.

I know, that name... almost as bad as New Westminster 😐

[Haligonian#1]

I think it is better to offer extra free tickets to your season tickets holders for them to distribute to whomever they want, then to sell cut-rate tickets or give away free tickets to less committed fans. This way you do not piss-off your most committed fans and get more bums in seats.