CPL new teams speculation

[Bison44]

^^^ This.. look at the club that seems to be the big surprise so far....small market Halifax.  Who would have guessed that??  Population numbers dont mean much if you tap into a vein of interest.  Smartly run, teams are needing a fan base of about 4000+, maybe with increasing budgets 6-7000 in the future.  Just need to find the right conditions, and plenty of smaller cities could drum up that kind of interest/enthusiasm.  

[StillOnFire]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

^^^ This.. look at the club that seems to be the big surprise so far....small market Halifax.  Who would have guessed that??  Population numbers dont mean much if you tap into a vein of interest.  Smartly run, teams are needing a fan base of about 4000+, maybe with increasing budgets 6-7000 in the future.  Just need to find the right conditions, and plenty of smaller cities could drum up that kind of interest/enthusiasm.  

Been proper impressed with Halifax, seems to have a real feel of a lower league English club (this is meant as a real compliment). 

[davey_twelve]

Everybody's second favourite team.

[Kent]

Real question. Are Wanderers the only team to have either of...

1. A new stadium
2. A downtown stadium

Which teams have either of these? Obviously some have renovated stadiums, but I think Wanderers are the only one with a new stadium to draw some interest from potential fans. Are there any others that are considered to be downtown?

These 2 things seemed to be the big difference makers in MLS, and it wouldn't surprise me if they proved to be key in the CPL as well.

[Reign]

9 minutes ago, Kent said:

Real question. Are Wanderers the only team to have either of...

1. A new stadium
2. A downtown stadium

Which teams have either of these? Obviously some have renovated stadiums, but I think Wanderers are the only one with a new stadium to draw some interest from potential fans. Are there any others that are considered to be downtown?

These 2 things seemed to be the big difference makers in MLS, and it wouldn't surprise me if they proved to be key in the CPL as well.

Edmonton’s I would consider downtown. Not in the hub but pretty close.

[ktf]

20 minutes ago, Kent said:

Real question. Are Wanderers the only team to have either of...

1. A new stadium
2. A downtown stadium

Which teams have either of these? Obviously some have renovated stadiums, but I think Wanderers are the only one with a new stadium to draw some interest from potential fans. Are there any others that are considered to be downtown?

These 2 things seemed to be the big difference makers in MLS, and it wouldn't surprise me if they proved to be key in the CPL as well.

PFC's stadium is basically new, but not downtown by a long shot.

[narduch]

If you use Google Maps/Streetview you can see how the stadium used to look.

So I guess the chances for expansion next season aren't looking to good? Figured they would have made the announcement by now.

[Obinna]

Not saying 2 teams in Sask could never work, but for now that is hard to imagine when they don't even have 1 team yet. I could see a team in Kelowna before a second Sask team. 

And if population is not factor, which is certainly debatable, then what about competition from other sports teams? 

I know different sports attract different people, but casual sport fans do exist and some are forced to choose when given multiple options, that's just the reality.

[Obinna]

12 hours ago, Kent said:

Real question. Are Wanderers the only team to have either of...

1. A new stadium
2. A downtown stadium

Which teams have either of these? Obviously some have renovated stadiums, but I think Wanderers are the only one with a new stadium to draw some interest from potential fans. Are there any others that are considered to be downtown?

These 2 things seemed to be the big difference makers in MLS, and it wouldn't surprise me if they proved to be key in the CPL as well.

I'm sure those things don't hurt, but let's not forget that Wanderers are the only show in town right now. What other team are you going to go watch?

If I lived in Halifax, I would be pretty excited to have a pro sports team to support.

Calgary already has the Stampeders, so that same dynamic doesn't exist. Cavalry is an afterthought, while Wanderers are front and centre.

What Cavalry does have though is a winning team and a best kept secret factor that make it cool. Attendance would be lower if not for that.

[Obinna]

22 hours ago, Bison44 said:

^^^ This.. look at the club that seems to be the big surprise so far....small market Halifax.  Who would have guessed that??  Population numbers dont mean much if you tap into a vein of interest.  Smartly run, teams are needing a fan base of about 4000+, maybe with increasing budgets 6-7000 in the future.  Just need to find the right conditions, and plenty of smaller cities could drum up that kind of interest/enthusiasm.  

If population didn't matter Halifax would not be a surprise. But it was a surprise (to some) because population and market size does matter (to an extent). 

If St. John's got it's ducks in a row, I bet it would rival Halifax in terms of popularity.

You hit the nail on the head though, smaller cities can be successful if you drum up interest. That's why St. John's would work. People are bored. There is nothing to do. Drumming up interest should be easy.

Not impossible, but probably more difficult to drum up interest for a second Sask team than a St. John's. Attempting to manufacture a rivalry with Sask 1 may help....

[Initial B]

I see one team in Saskatoon before one in Regina. They'll have a fanbase that doesn't have to travel for summer sports entertainment.

I could see CanPL trying to stabilize the National and Regional leagues concurrently, with the eventual goal of instituting of Pro-Rel in a couple of decades. I think regional leagues should have at least 8 clubs in them, preferably more. L1O has 16 men's teams while PLSQ has 9 men's teams. If they can get 8 clubs each in a BC and Prairie League, we just might have something. Would it be too much to expect to have BC, Alberta, Prairies, Ontario, Quebec, and Maritimes Regional Leagues? Or would 4 Leagues be more viable, rolling the Maritimes and Prairies into the Quebec and Alberta Leagues respectively?

So a 12-16 team national League and four 8-16 team regional leagues - that would require 34-80 clubs nationwide. I don't see many of the regional clubs being viable nationally, but it only takes two or three to be chomping at the bit to play against the big boys to start implementing pro-rel.

[deschamp86]

On 7/1/2019 at 11:00 PM, Kent said:

Real question. Are Wanderers the only team to have either of...

1. A new stadium
2. A downtown stadium

Which teams have either of these? Obviously some have renovated stadiums, but I think Wanderers are the only one with a new stadium to draw some interest from potential fans. Are there any others that are considered to be downtown?

These 2 things seemed to be the big difference makers in MLS, and it wouldn't surprise me if they proved to be key in the CPL as well.

Was curious myself so I checked using Google Maps. Simply typed the name of the stadium and downtown of the city. Note that I used Victoria for Pacific and Toronto for York

Halifax	950m
Edmonton	3.3km
Forge	3.4km
Valour	10.9km
Pacific	19.1km
Cavalry	21.6km
York	22.1km

There does seem to be some correlation. Outliers seem to be Cavalry (probably because they are doing so well) and Edmonton (not sure)

[Rintaran]

47 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

Was curious myself so I checked using Google Maps. Simply typed the name of the stadium and downtown of the city. Note that I used Victoria for Pacific and Toronto for York

Halifax	950m
Edmonton	3.3km
Forge	3.4km
Valour	10.9km
Pacific	19.1km
Cavalry	21.6km
York	22.1km

There does seem to be some correlation. Outliers seem to be Cavalry (probably because they are doing so well) and Edmonton (not sure)

Are we going stadium to downtown of the city they're in, or downtown of the nearest city people from the far end of the country know about? Asking because Pacific is only 2.5 km from downtown Langford. You have to go through either Saanich or View Royal and Esquimalt before finally reaching the city of Victoria and its downtown.  

 @ted Amalgamate already!

[deschamp86]

11 minutes ago, Rintaran said:

Are we going stadium to downtown of the city they're in, or downtown of the nearest city people from the far end of the country know about? Asking because Pacific is only 2.5 km from downtown Langford. You have to go through either Saanich or View Royal and Esquimalt before finally reaching the city of Victoria and its downtown.  

 @ted Amalgamate already!

I put that in the heading

[deschamp86]

14 minutes ago, Rintaran said:

Are we going stadium to downtown of the city they're in, or downtown of the nearest city people from the far end of the country know about? Asking because Pacific is only 2.5 km from downtown Langford. You have to go through either Saanich or View Royal and Esquimalt before finally reaching the city of Victoria and its downtown.  

 @ted Amalgamate already!

I could say that Cavalry is 2.7km from Silverado, but I don't think that is especially helpful

[Rintaran]

Just now, deschamp86 said:

I put that in the heading

So you did. My bad.

I was kinda just pointing out that just asking "downtown" is a pretty bad reference given the "regional" nature of some of the teams.

The Cavalry example only adds to that (do you have to go through Silverado on the way to Calgary?)

[Obinna]

4 hours ago, Initial B said:

I see one team in Saskatoon before one in Regina. They'll have a fanbase that doesn't have to travel for summer sports entertainment.

I could see CanPL trying to stabilize the National and Regional leagues concurrently, with the eventual goal of instituting of Pro-Rel in a couple of decades. I think regional leagues should have at least 8 clubs in them, preferably more. L1O has 16 men's teams while PLSQ has 9 men's teams. If they can get 8 clubs each in a BC and Prairie League, we just might have something. Would it be too much to expect to have BC, Alberta, Prairies, Ontario, Quebec, and Maritimes Regional Leagues? Or would 4 Leagues be more viable, rolling the Maritimes and Prairies into the Quebec and Alberta Leagues respectively?

So a 12-16 team national League and four 8-16 team regional leagues - that would require 34-80 clubs nationwide. I don't see many of the regional clubs being viable nationally, but it only takes two or three to be chomping at the bit to play against the big boys to start implementing pro-rel.

Good post, but I can't help but feel that rolling up the Maritimes and Praries into Quebec and Alberta is not going to work with the scale of travel.

These D3 teams would face a monumental trip from Winnipeg to Calgary, or Cape Breton to Gatineau. It's not realistic given the budgets they'd have.

After BC and Alberta launch their leagues, I think we are good. That captures roughly 85% of the country. It's a great start, to be fair. 

We don't want these D3 leagues to simply survive - we want them to thrive! We certainly don't want to weigh them down with travel. 

Not sure what we do about the hinterlands. Perhaps attempt a Maritimes league and a Sasktoba league. Designate them as D4 and see how they do.

If they prove stable, you can elevate their status to d3 and/or attempt that merger you are talking about.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Obinna

[Kent]

22 hours ago, Obinna said:

Perhaps attempt a Maritimes league and a Sasktoba league.

I feel like someone should start a poll to see what is the preferred naming for this hypothetical league. Sasktoba or Manitchewan.

Edited July 4, 2019 by Kent
I spelled the wrong pole/poll.

[Bison44]

As a guy who lives just inside the border in MB, but works in SK, there is only the one option......Sasktoba.  

[Cheeta]

48 minutes ago, Kent said:

I feel like someone should start a pole to see what is the preferred naming for this hypothetical league. Sasktoba or Manitchewan.

I feel like we have enough of our own problems to deal with already that Manitoba shouldn't be forced into adopting the red headed step child of Canada.  Isn't it enough already that we're immediately downwind?

And Manitchewan* is already taken, pal. 

* A closed sandwich consisting of toasted light rye bread spread with garlic butter (interior faces only) with a filling, from top to bottom, consisting of: raw yellow onion, warm mac & cheese, and topped with a spread of HP sause or alternatively, French's Ketchup, sea salt & black pepper.  Usually served with a side of sour cream & onion potato chips and a kosher pickle, whole, uncut.

 

[Stanley]

3 hours ago, Kent said:

I feel like someone should start a pole to see what is the preferred naming for this hypothetical league. Sasktoba or Manitchewan.

I'd call it "Saskatoba", as it rolls of the tongue better than "Sasktoba".

[Blackdude]

From Quebec Soccer's July edition

According to Quebec Soccer Federation's president Pierre Marchand, it costs $9 Million to buy a CPL franchise. That seems expansive according to him. He thinks Quebec City is the best place to put a CPL team with the PEPS that can host 10,000 people. He also mentions that Bunbury talks a lot, but he's no Patrice Bernier in terms of being known in the province.

 

I personally didn't know Bunbury was from Quebec until Marc Tougas wrote about him. So, how would a multimillionaire listen to Bunbury? 

[narduch]

Wow $9 million seems a bit steep. 

That Media Pro money must be really good if that's true. 

So perhaps we shouldnt have so much anxiety about York9

[Reign]

20 hours ago, Initial B said:

I see one team in Saskatoon before one in Regina. They'll have a fanbase that doesn't have to travel for summer sports entertainment.

I could see CanPL trying to stabilize the National and Regional leagues concurrently, with the eventual goal of instituting of Pro-Rel in a couple of decades. I think regional leagues should have at least 8 clubs in them, preferably more. L1O has 16 men's teams while PLSQ has 9 men's teams. If they can get 8 clubs each in a BC and Prairie League, we just might have something. Would it be too much to expect to have BC, Alberta, Prairies, Ontario, Quebec, and Maritimes Regional Leagues? Or would 4 Leagues be more viable, rolling the Maritimes and Prairies into the Quebec and Alberta Leagues respectively?

So a 12-16 team national League and four 8-16 team regional leagues - that would require 34-80 clubs nationwide. I don't see many of the regional clubs being viable nationally, but it only takes two or three to be chomping at the bit to play against the big boys to start implementing pro-rel.

Yeah 9M seems steep at this point. It also probably means we will never see Pro/Rel. 

[Obinna]

9 hours ago, Kwar said:

I'd call it "Saskatoba", as it rolls of the tongue better than "Sasktoba".

 

11 hours ago, Bison44 said:

As a guy who lives just inside the border in MB, but works in SK, there is only the one option......Sasktoba.  

The last few years that the CSA ran the National All-Star Championships, an annual youth tournament that pitted provincial teams against one another, they merged Atlantic Canada into a single select team. They did likewise to Manitoba and Saskatchewan and that team, if memory serves me correct, was actually called Sasktoba, with the name clearly stated on jerseys, track suits and all. This dates to whatever year Jordan Hamilton was an U-15, as I watched his Ontario in that same edition. I believe it was 2013.

I checked on the CSA website and apparently they don't run this program now. All I see is the Toyota National Championship (club nationals) and Canadian Championships (V's cup). Perhaps they (Herdman) phased it out with the Excel Program. Sad to see strictly from a nostalgic point of view, having played in it twice in U-15 and U-17. As a young player, it gave me the chance to play against and watch some great players who would go on to represent the national team, but it really had a lot of flaws. The smaller provinces would get regularly get beat up on by the big 4, which resulted in a lot of bunkering. I am sure that's why they created a Team Atlantic and Team Sasktoba, in order to make it more competitive.

This was a very long winded way of saying that Sasktoba was an actual thing for a brief moment in time

Edited July 4, 2019 by Obinna