CPL new teams speculation

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

4 hours ago, Kent said:

This is what people (in the L1O thread I believe) that thought it was foolish of L1O to mandate new teams enter at the bottom, ...

If you are implying I did that you are building a strawman. My only criticism was that they should have allowed all interested groups in before  they used on the field performance to determine who goes into which division.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Regarding Electric City, first, I agree that teams have to earn their way and no fast-tracking. Also to ensure they do things right and it's not all hot air.

Then about that attendance. It is lower than what Thunder Bay Chill have gotten in PDL over the years. I am not saying it is bad (and I'm going to the L1BC final today and hope to see a similar crowd, or bigger), but it is not anything special, a typical lower tier crowd for a mostly amateur set-up.

[Kent]

19 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

If you are implying I did that you are building a strawman. My only criticism was that they should have allowed all interested groups in before  they used on the field performance to determine who goes into which division.

No, I had no intention of implying it was you. I don't remember at all who it was, but there were a couple people (as I remember it) that thought if a team was somehow deemed to be serious they should be able to start at the top level of L1O rather than starting at the bottom tier and figuring things out and earning their way up.

[red card]

New Brunswick all-stars defeated Sunderland's u23 team in Moncton over the weekend.

Question got asked if Moncton is ready for CPL?

Manager of city venues: "I know there's a lot of eyes on Moncton as a potential city for a team of that nature. Obviously, it's something we're looking towards, but we're not quite there yet."

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/after-n-b-all-star-team-s-surprise-victory-could-the-cpl-come-to-moncton-1.6009462

[m-g-williams]

16 hours ago, red card said:

New Brunswick all-stars defeated Sunderland's u23 team in Moncton over the weekend.

Question got asked if Moncton is ready for CPL?

Manager of city venues: "I know there's a lot of eyes on Moncton as a potential city for a team of that nature. Obviously, it's something we're looking towards, but we're not quite there yet."

https://atlantic.ctvnews.ca/after-n-b-all-star-team-s-surprise-victory-could-the-cpl-come-to-moncton-1.6009462

Even hearing that they're looking at it is awesome. I'm still absolutely convinced that Moncton would be a slam dunk for the CPL - no competition with other major summer sports teams, central hub in the Maritimes, natural rivalry with Halifax, and a top-notch, right-sized stadium. If the right owners can get on board and take the Wanderers approach of really making the team a part of the community, a Moncton team would do great. 

[Kingston]

6 hours ago, m-g-williams said:

Even hearing that they're looking at it is awesome. I'm still absolutely convinced that Moncton would be a slam dunk for the CPL - no competition with other major summer sports teams, central hub in the Maritimes, natural rivalry with Halifax, and a top-notch, right-sized stadium. If the right owners can get on board and take the Wanderers approach of really making the team a part of the community, a Moncton team would do great. 

I appreciate your enthusiasm.  The part I can't get past for Moncton is how we'd expect the team to draw the necessary fans in a city with a metro pop of just 162 000.  It's less than half the size of the current smallest market of Victoria.

Halifax is rightly held up as the off-field success story of the CPL.  Proportionately, Moncton drawing 5000 would be like Halifax drawing 14 000.  So we're asking them to be three times as successful as Halifax to draw sustainability-level crowds.  I just don't see it.

[Moore204]

It's possible to put a team in Moncton knowing that when the league is large enough for Pro/Rel that Moncton would be tier 2 team simply due to financial limitations. Although, should the Irvings decide to get involved they might be willing to fund the team regardless.

For reference, out here in MB, the Brandon Wheat Kings hockey team draws an avg of 3,500-4,100 per game in a city of only 51,000. Sure it's hockey, but it's certainly possible in a single sport community.

[youllneverwalkalone]

I don't know it for a fact I just know it's true: you can drive from anywhere in the Maritimes and be in Moncton in around 2 hours.

[SpursFlu]

I think Moncton would be great. That built in rivalry with HFX alone would make it worth it

Maybe to bring in people from the surrounding areas ypu go with New Brunswick United. I don't mind the cliche names if they actually make sense

Edited August 5, 2022 by SpursFlu

[phil03]

11 hours ago, m-g-williams said:

Even hearing that they're looking at it is awesome. I'm still absolutely convinced that Moncton would be a slam dunk for the CPL - no competition with other major summer sports teams, central hub in the Maritimes, natural rivalry with Halifax, and a top-notch, right-sized stadium. If the right owners can get on board and take the Wanderers approach of really making the team a part of the community, a Moncton team would do great. 

Having grown up in the area I fully concur. As @Moore204 said, the ideal scenario would probably be for the Irvings to take ownership for PR purpose and fund the team rather extensively like they are doing for the Wildcats in junior Hockey. The team would essentially be their summer side of the medal, so to speak, when it come to sports. 

5 hours ago, Kingston said:

I appreciate your enthusiasm.  The part I can't get past for Moncton is how we'd expect the team to draw the necessary fans in a city with a metro pop of just 162 000.  It's less than half the size of the current smallest market of Victoria.

Halifax is rightly held up as the off-field success story of the CPL.  Proportionately, Moncton drawing 5000 would be like Halifax drawing 14 000.  So we're asking them to be three times as successful as Halifax to draw sustainability-level crowds.  I just don't see it.

3 hours ago, Moore204 said:

It's possible to put a team in Moncton knowing that when the league is large enough for Pro/Rel that Moncton would be tier 2 team simply due to financial limitations. Although, should the Irvings decide to get involved they might be willing to fund the team regardless.

For reference, out here in MB, the Brandon Wheat Kings hockey team draws an avg of 3,500-4,100 per game in a city of only 51,000. Sure it's hockey, but it's certainly possible in a single sport community.

There might indeed be some challenges but it is worth nothing that in 2019-2020 the aforementioned Wildcats had an averange attendence of 5,200. Sure, Hockey and Soccer are different beasts but on the other hands a Moncton CPL team would be quite litterally the only truly major sport franchise in the province operating during the Summer months which, combined with Moncton being the main shopping hub in the area, which a lot of people still go to do purchase stuff semi-regularly, would mean a Moncton team would have a descent shot at getting a sizable chunk of out of towners to buy tickets.

EDIT: On a broader note I'd argue that if and when the CPL ever become big enough to do relegation we would be better off spliting it in regional subleagues ala Canadian junior Hockey instad, with a big championship of regional champions at the end. Or at least organise the league and the schedule by regional divisions. Sure, having promotions and relegations would be great but the sheer geographic reality of Canada mean that the saving in travel costs would be even more beneficial.

Edited August 6, 2022 by phil03

[P-O]

Before we think about relegation/promotion, we need clubs at any level to build academies and make kids believe they can get there.

I believe the CPL needs to look at mid-smaller markets where they can kill it and forget about TO, Van and Montreal for now.

TO and MTL are already full of D3 teams.

Kelowna, Kamloops, Prince George, Red Deer, Medecine Hat, Lethbridge, Regina, Saskatoon need teams in the West ASAP.

Ontario has many markets to open.

Quebec needs Sherbrooke, Laval, Gatineau, Trois-Rivières, Drummond, Quebec (D3 and CPL), and a city like Riviere-du-Loup with a D3 (many soccer programs there including Degelis).

Can't speak for the Maritimes, but Moncton, Charlottetown and St John would be a good step with Halifax Killing it.

 

A club like Simcoe in the Ontario D3 is slowly building it and I believe they will eventually be a D1 club in Canada.

 

Does it matter if it is next year? In 2026? Or if it comes with promotion? No because they are creating roots in their communities and academy players.

 

Look at Kone, from Amateur D3 to MLS within a year and who knows where next.

Kids need to play and D3 is a better level than any level.

[Stanley]

3 hours ago, P-O said:

Kelowna, Kamloops, Prince George, Red Deer, Medecine Hat, Lethbridge, Regina, Saskatoon need teams in the West ASAP.

 

 

Prince George would be a horrible place to put a team. 

[MauditYvon]

6 hours ago, P-O said:

Before we think about relegation/promotion, we need clubs at any level to build academies and make kids believe they can get there.

I believe the CPL needs to look at mid-smaller markets where they can kill it and forget about TO, Van and Montreal for now.

TO and MTL are already full of D3 teams.

Kelowna, Kamloops, Prince George, Red Deer, Medecine Hat, Lethbridge, Regina, Saskatoon need teams in the West ASAP.

Ontario has many markets to open.

Quebec needs Sherbrooke, Laval, Gatineau, Trois-Rivières, Drummond, Quebec (D3 and CPL), and a city like Riviere-du-Loup with a D3 (many soccer programs there including Degelis).

Can't speak for the Maritimes, but Moncton, Charlottetown and St John would be a good step with Halifax Killing it.

 

A club like Simcoe in the Ontario D3 is slowly building it and I believe they will eventually be a D1 club in Canada.

 

Does it matter if it is next year? In 2026? Or if it comes with promotion? No because they are creating roots in their communities and academy players.

 

Look at Kone, from Amateur D3 to MLS within a year and who knows where next.

Kids need to play and D3 is a better level than any level.

Smaller towns are nice, but we need clubs in cities with airport and regional importance. I think Laval would be a success. I dream of Québec, Laval, Moncton, St. John's, Regina and Charlottetown. Every province would have at least one club. But damn, 12 millions + stadium is big money.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

4 hours ago, Stanley said:

Prince George would be a horrible place to put a team. 

Give it time where L1BC is concerned. If Nanaimo is on the agenda it probably won't be far behind on the wish list in a way that New Westminster Khalsa or ICSF Columbus won't be.

[SpursFlu]

I think smaller towns need to be viewed as a buy low sell high concept. There are a certain communities in Canada that trending on the up and up. Kelowna and Saskatoon likely fall in that category. Not so sure about Prince George 

[dyslexic nam]

I wish Charlottetown was a viable option but I think we would support a D2 team at best.  Sports teams here have always had a rough go of it in terms of attendance.  We had the AHL Charlottetown Senators and they moved.  The Island Storm was in the NBL but COVID killed that whole league. And the QMJHL Charlottetown Islanders team only drew good crowds last year during a deep playoff run.  A lot of people here are too busy going to the beach or going on boat days during the summer to go to a footy game.  

[SpursFlu]

I would say not most likely but the top 5 markets for CPL to get in to in order are 

1)  Quebec City

2) Saskatoon 

3) Kelowna 

4) Moncton 

5) Windsor (or pick whatever is the best Ontario area)

[Watchmen]

5 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I would say not most likely but the top 5 markets for CPL to get in to in order are 

1)  Quebec City

2) Saskatoon 

3) Kelowna 

4) Moncton 

5) Windsor (or pick whatever is the best Ontario area)

While I'd say getting in to Quebec should be a priority, I'd say stabilizing Edmonton (and York, to a lesser extent) should be a priority above any other expansion.

[Cheeta]

^ I think whatever it takes, the league needs an club in Edmonton, and it needs a team in Quebec.  

Edmonton needs a re-think, that's clear but there has to be a market there.  I can't believe a way doesn't exist for a 3,000s core to be developed in Edmonton under the right circumstances.

And CPL needs a stake in Quebec.  If that's Montreal or Sherbrooke or Quebec City or wherever it has to happen and the sooner the better.  Can't be afraid of opportunities outside of Montreal, if circumstances allow for it.

 

[SpursFlu]

1 hour ago, Watchmen said:

While I'd say getting in to Quebec should be a priority, I'd say stabilizing Edmonton (and York, to a lesser extent) should be a priority above any other expansion.

I think an unstable Edmonton is kinda fun. Its 12 million now? So get 12 million for Saskatoon, Kelowna, Quebec or 36 for the lot and just break off Edmonton a few million to stay zany and unstable. All good

Edited August 8, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Bbeto]

Work for expansion:
Saskatoon, Quebec City and Laval. St. John's (or Moncton)

[BearcatSA]

On 8/7/2022 at 7:09 PM, Cheeta said:

^ I think whatever it takes, the league needs an club in Edmonton, and it needs a team in Quebec.  

Edmonton needs a re-think, that's clear but there has to be a market there.  I can't believe a way doesn't exist for a 3,000s core to be developed in Edmonton under the right circumstances.

And CPL needs a stake in Quebec.  If that's Montreal or Sherbrooke or Quebec City or wherever it has to happen and the sooner the better.  Can't be afraid of opportunities outside of Montreal, if circumstances allow for it.

Agreed.  I also like the Moncton idea very much

Skeptical about Kelowna as a summer month soccer market; the spring and fall may be a different story.

[Bison44]

Does anyone from Moncton on here think they can replicate-ish Halifax type results?  What boxes do they check??  Potential owners etc??  

[Haligonian#1]

4 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Does anyone from Moncton on here think they can replicate-ish Halifax type results?  What boxes do they check??  Potential owners etc??  

I grew up in Moncton and now live in Halifax. The pro regarding Moncton is that they have a ready-made stadium that is the perfect size for the CPL (seats approximately 10,000 fans). However, the stadium does have a track and is located on the Université de Moncton campus. I believe the city has a bit of a stake in the stadium, so maybe the CPL rule about not using university stadiums doesn't apply in the case of Moncton.

Another pro is Moncton tends to want to be seen as "being in the big leagues". Take that for what it's worth. The whole city would get behind a project like this, at least initially...that means the city, local sponsors, die-hard soccer fans, and casual fans. It might even be a success. 

 

The two cons would be market size and ownership group potential. The Moncton CMA population is about 160,000, so on the smaller scale. However, the area is growing and there wouldn't be much in terms of competition with other sports. Senior baseball used to attract pretty decent crowds in the summer months, but soccer is being played more and the CPL would be an attractive product for Moncton. Ownership group potential is the other con. Robert Irving owns the local CHL club, but it is profitable. I am not sure that he or other business groups in Moncton would be willing to take on a team that would likely be bleeding money in the first decade.

 

 

[nolando]

9 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

 

Skeptical about Kelowna as a summer month soccer market; the spring and fall may be a different story.

Agreed. Too much competition for fun-in-the-sun time. And soooo hot even at noon or late evening through July and August. What would be the quality of soccer on display in temperatures that are regularly between 30 and 40 degrees?