CPL new teams speculation

[Stanley]

16 hours ago, nolando said:

Agreed. Too much competition for fun-in-the-sun time. And soooo hot even at noon or late evening through July and August. What would be the quality of soccer on display in temperatures that are regularly between 30 and 40 degrees?

Not to mention everyone is on meth and fentanyl in the Okanagan, or their busy driving around in big trucks flying giant Canadian flags out the windows doing crazy antivaxer crap.

[Ansem]

🤏 close to give up on Canada

[SpursFlu]

51 minutes ago, Stanley said:

Not to mention everyone is on meth and fentanyl in the Okanagan, or their busy driving around in big trucks flying giant Canadian flags out the windows doing crazy antivaxer crap.

Actually the Okanagan is a pretty affluent area. There's some old money but lots of people from Western Canada who don't really vibe with urban life have used the last 2 years and the ability to work remote to move there. Lots of people dont appreciate the 15min neighborhood concept. Lake Country is a popular destination and its not hard to understand why

Edited August 11, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Stanley]

2 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Actually the Okanagan is a pretty affluent area

I know, I live here.  Crime in the region is very good for my job security.

[SpursFlu]

9 minutes ago, Stanley said:

I know, I live here.  Crime in the region is very good for my job security.

I lived there. I'm from Surrey so trust me it's pretty mild. Come down to the lower mainland right now. I think a few of your meth addicts have escaped and they're randomly screaming at people on the skytrain. You can have them back if you like. Since people are being told to put on their grown up pants and get back in the office, maybe we can arrange a swap 

[Stanley]

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/kelowna-s-crime-rate-the-highest-of-all-canadian-metropolitan-areas-1.6012684

[phil03]

On 8/10/2022 at 2:44 PM, Bison44 said:

Does anyone from Moncton on here think they can replicate-ish Halifax type results?  What boxes do they check??  Potential owners etc??  

 

On 8/10/2022 at 7:09 PM, Haligonian#1 said:

I grew up in Moncton and now live in Halifax. The pro regarding Moncton is that they have a ready-made stadium that is the perfect size for the CPL (seats approximately 10,000 fans). However, the stadium does have a track and is located on the Université de Moncton campus. I believe the city has a bit of a stake in the stadium, so maybe the CPL rule about not using university stadiums doesn't apply in the case of Moncton.

Another pro is Moncton tends to want to be seen as "being in the big leagues". Take that for what it's worth. The whole city would get behind a project like this, at least initially...that means the city, local sponsors, die-hard soccer fans, and casual fans. It might even be a success. 

 

The two cons would be market size and ownership group potential. The Moncton CMA population is about 160,000, so on the smaller scale. However, the area is growing and there wouldn't be much in terms of competition with other sports. Senior baseball used to attract pretty decent crowds in the summer months, but soccer is being played more and the CPL would be an attractive product for Moncton. Ownership group potential is the other con. Robert Irving owns the local CHL club, but it is profitable. I am not sure that he or other business groups in Moncton would be willing to take on a team that would likely be bleeding money in the first decade.

 

 

(I also grew up in Moncton)

I do feel its worth remembering Moncton's CHL club was a massive mess when Robert Irving bought it (it was called the Alpines for christ sake!) so it show that the Irvings can have at least some patience, especially when they good PR out of an investment, which they'd probably get from a CPL club. Without them though, yeah, its a bit more dicey...

More broadly, of course Moncton isn't the perfect candidate for a CPL club (arguably nobody is) and it would very much be betting on the lack of competition and being the big show in town to compensate for a smaller market size. However, the one time the CPL did it wound up being the big off pitch success of the league so I'd argue there would definitely be a case for trying to replicate what has worked in the past through a club in Moncton...

[Unnamed Trialist]

Moncton, Maritimes. When I spoke to a person in the know about League One at the BC final, there seemed to be the recognition of the need to set this structure up in the East too. The east, a term as relative I'm told as the west, I hope you know what I mean. 

What I'm saying: maybe some of the fits for CPL are tough in the Maritimes, but if you had a semipro structure you'd be meeting part of the need to grow competitive football. Sort of like: if this fleshes out more then CPL may be easier. 

Or maybe, looking at Quebec, I'm dead wrong. 

[BigBadBorto]

My preferred locations for new teams in order 

#1.  Quebec City.   Big city with no sports alternatives in summer.  Gives a much needed team in Quebec province and I think more viable than Laval/Montreal team, who would always play second fiddle to CF Mtl

#2 Southern Ontario.  Whether it’s Windsor or London I’m confident they would be a success.  Lots of Soccer culture in southern Ontario 

#3 Saskatoon.   They have conditional approval for team and the stadium video looks amazing.  They need to promote as provincial team rather than city team.  
 

#4 Moncton.  I’m from Halifax and have been there many times including fir CFL game.  I think it could work.  Moncton is not huge (160k or so) but is growing and also within 2 hour drive you have Fredericton, Saint John and Charlottetown to draw from. Not to mention lots of Halifax fans for their away games.  Stadium size is good although location is not great (not walking distance to downtown) and the track is not great to have. They need to promote it as provincial team rather than city team and have exhibition or preseason games in Fred and Saint John to spark excitement there

#5  Kelowna.   Based on feedback from others in group I think it could work.  

 

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

17 minutes ago, BigBadBorto said:

...#2 Southern Ontario.  Whether it’s Windsor or London I’m confident they would be a success.  Lots of Soccer culture in southern Ontario...

Kitchener-Waterloo also rates a mention and was very much on the radar before the league launched but a stadium solution could not be identified.

[BigBadBorto]

8 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Kitchener-Waterloo also rates a mention and was very much on the radar before the league launched but a stadium solution could not be identified.

Yes I agree.  I think any of these 3 cities could make a go of it (and possibly even 2 of them)   My preference (in terms of chances of success) would be London since it’s more central to both Windsor and Kitchener.   But it seems Windsor may be in the lead since Clanaghan is leading the charge for stadium and team 

Edited August 14, 2022 by BigBadBorto

[Kingston]

21 hours ago, BigBadBorto said:

Yes I agree.  I think any of these 3 cities could make a go of it (and possibly even 2 of them)   My preference (in terms of chances of success) would be London since it’s more central to both Windsor and Kitchener.   But it seems Windsor may be in the lead since Clanaghan is leading the charge for stadium and team 

Clanaghan aside, for me London and KW are far better southern Ontario choices than Windsor.  From my brief time in the Windsor area many years ago, most sports fans there basically belong to Detroit.  I'm not sure how far this extends into soccer (which wasn't a thing there when I was in the area) but the USL Detroit City FC draws over 5000 so any soccer fans in the area may already be plugged in there.  The main point being that any Windsor team is competing with the MLB Tigers and NFL Lions for summer/fall soccer fans.

KW and London are both more self-contained than Windsor and around 1.5 to 2 times the size of Windsor (350 k Windsor, 550 k London, 600 k KW).  KW and London both have the potential to be Halifaxes if done right.

 

[phil03]

For me the big picture is key here: money wise being able to split into two conferences would just be massive for the CPL so that mean probably one extra team in Western Canada and three more in the east (I have my doubts as to the viability of York United due to being a third team in an area with an MLS team in it while York, unlike Hamilton, arguably doesn't have nearly as much of a distinct local entity then Toronto and I have doubts for the upcoming Vancouver team for the same reason).

If it was my call I'd go

I) Québec 

II) Moncton

III) Windsor

IV) Saskatoon

Sherbrooke, Trois Rivières and London could be good alternative in the East while Regina and Kelowna could be the same in the East.

[Kingston]

22 minutes ago, phil03 said:

For me the big picture is key here: money wise being able to split into two conferences would just be massive for the CPL so that mean probably one extra team in Western Canada and three more in the east (I have my doubts as to the viability of York United due to being a third team in an area with an MLS team in it while York, unlike Hamilton, arguably doesn't have nearly as much of a distinct local entity then Toronto and I have doubts for the upcoming Vancouver team for the same reason).

If it was my call I'd go

I) Québec 

II) Moncton

III) Windsor

IV) Saskatoon

Sherbrooke, Trois Rivières and London could be good alternative in the East while Regina and Kelowna could be the same in the East.

Replace Monton with KW and Windsor with London and I think you'd have something workable.

[phil03]

28 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Replace Monton with KW and Windsor with London and I think you'd have something workable.

That would prevent it from reaching the six teams per conference you need to make things workable though. If Moncton can't work (which I disagree with for the reasons mentioned above) then it should be Trois-Rivières or Sherbrooke instead of Kelowna.

[Kingston]

22 minutes ago, phil03 said:

That would prevent it from reaching the six teams per conference you need to make things workable though. If Moncton can't work (which I disagree with for the reasons mentioned above) then it should be Trois-Rivières or Sherbrooke instead of Kelowna.

How so?

You suggested Quebec, Moncton, and Windsor in the east with Saskatoon in the west.

I'm saying Quebec, KW, and London in the east with Saskatoon in the west.

It's the same number of teams for each conference under either scenario.

[phil03]

3 minutes ago, Kingston said:

How so?

You suggested Quebec, Moncton, and Windsor in the east with Saskatoon in the west.

I'm saying Quebec, KW, and London in the east with Saskatoon in the west.

It's the same number of teams for each conference under either scenario.

Ok, I must admit I am a bit confused: Kelowna is in BC so it would be in the Western conference if there is such a division no? Maybe I misunderstood what KW is standing for?

[Kingston]

Just now, phil03 said:

Ok, I must admit I am a bit confused: Kelowna is in BC so it would be in the Western conference if there is such a division no? Maybe I misunderstood what KW is standing for?

KW is Kitchener-Waterloo.  My bad; I should avoid just assuming everyone on a national board is familiar with the local abbreviations.

[Haligonian#1]

Regina is a no for me. The Roughriders are too much of a presence for a mid-sized city to allow any room for a CPL team. Quebec City is the biggest untapped market and I think could pull a substantial fan base. I believe it could even average an attendance in the 8,000 range in its first season. London and Kitchener-Waterloo would likely do well, even be in the same attendance range as Halifax. They also both have a substantial corporate office presence for their size (Insurance Sector for London and Tech Sector for KW) that could help in selling corporate boxes and sponsorship. Saskatoon could easily be another Halifax... although I must admit that I have never been there and don't know the local market well. Kelowna and Moncton are more long term expansion possibility for me. I think York should be moved to either London or KW. 

[ted]

8 hours ago, Kingston said:

...the USL Detroit City FC draws over 5000 so any soccer fans in the area may already be plugged in there.

Didn't we have this discussion before? I doubt that fans from Windsor are crossing the border to watch DCFC in any significant numbers.

[Watchmen]

11 hours ago, phil03 said:

For me the big picture is key here: money wise being able to split into two conferences would just be massive for the CPL

DO NOT SPLIT IN TO TWO CONFERENCES. I know MLS has done it, but that's because the league itself is enormous and that's a different discussion. We can all sit here and argue over how many teams the CPL can sustain (and a possible Div 2) but there's absolutely no reason to ever split in to two conferences. They'll never hit the number of teams required to really do that, and if they actually did (and that would have to be >20), then have the conversation about pro/rel.

[Unnamed Trialist]

This is not the "List of Canadian urban centre's in order of size" thread you dolts, stop already! 

[ted]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

This is not the "List of Canadian urban centre's in order of size" thread you dolts, stop already! 

I'm pretty sure it has been in the past, maybe 175 pages or so ago. LOL

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 minute ago, ted said:

I'm pretty sure it has been in the past, maybe 175 pages or so ago. LOL

175 pages of people making lists, the future of Canadian soccer.

[ted]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

175 pages of people making lists, the future of Canadian soccer.

And calculating the points needed to progress in whatever... LOL