Cyle Larin

[Cheeta]

2 hours ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

No, I had a great view in 116. But the point still stands that we've been rough at corners. Between Panama and Jamaica we had 20 corners, and the one we scored on was an own goal after three tries in a minute

If we've had one area of play that needs significant improvement, its set pieces

For the life of me I can no understand why Herdman just doesn't place a blocker on the keeper.  Maybe it's not cute enough, don't know but FFS, man.  It NEVER hurts you're corners.

[dyslexic nam]

58 minutes ago, jonovision said:

Alphonso had 3 or 4 consecutive excellent set piece deliveries in that sequence. This stood out to me because most of our set piece deliveries in the previous matches had been so poor.

100% agree.  All of those corners were low-arc and hit hard into a space where the keeper wasn’t getting there.  Given some of the not-so-great corners I have seen Davies take for us in previous games, that was really encouraging.   

[CanadaFan123]

2 hours ago, Cheeta said:

For the life of me I can no understand why Herdman just doesn't place a blocker on the keeper.  Maybe it's not cute enough, don't know but FFS, man.  It NEVER hurts you're corners.

Unless a ref is calling a foul anytime the keeper is brushed. 

[costarg]

18 hours ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

Three headers in the last two matches. If only we could learn to take a corner...

We'd be deadly between him and Vitoria in the box for corners.

[Cblake]

Cyle will play a huge part in November, could really be the difference maker in the games vs. two tough opponents. Being up front with David will be huge. 

[CanadaFan123]

One thing about Larin, which undoubtedly contributes to his set piece success, is that he seems to be a lot more aggressive now. Before he was a bit of a gentle giant but as seen in that first goal he's not scared to put his head where it hurts.

[dyslexic nam]

16 minutes ago, Cblake said:

Cyle will play a huge part in November, could really be the difference maker in the games vs. two tough opponents. Being up front with David will be huge. 

Agree.  We have seen David struggle alone up front - I think He and Cyle can learn to be a really effective partnership.  What a striking duo to have at our disposal.  
 

16 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

One thing about Larin, which undoubtedly contributes to his set piece success, is that he seems to be a lot more aggressive now. Before he was a bit of a gentle giant but as seen in that first goal he's not scared to put his head where it hurts.

Also agree.  He seems like he is really motivated to fight for chances and goals these days.  Love seeing it.  

[PiedPilko]

9 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

Agree.  We have seen David struggle alone up front - I think He and Cyle can learn to be a really effective partnership.  What a striking duo to have at our disposal.  

I hope we can get them working together - they sure haven't clicked up to this point.

[Floortom]

To be honest, IMO neither Larin or David are ideal partners for each other. It's a bit unfortunate as they both are very good but need a partner up top. I think Akinola (or a better version of Cavallini) would be a better pairing than Larin / David. 

Thats not to say Larin / David wont be successful as a pair just due to pure talent

[Lansdude]

2 minutes ago, Floortom said:

To be honest, IMO neither Larin or David are ideal partners for each other. It's a bit unfortunate as they both are very good but need a partner up top. I think Akinola (or a better version of Cavallini) would be a better pairing than Larin / David. 

Thats not to say Larin / David wont be successful as a pair just due to pure talent

Just throw Larin, Davies, and David up there and tell them to imitate Salah/Jota/Mane/Firmino in Liverpool's front three. Shouldn't be too hard. 😜

[CanadaFan123]

5 minutes ago, Floortom said:

To be honest, IMO neither Larin or David are ideal partners for each other. It's a bit unfortunate as they both are very good but need a partner up top. I think Akinola (or a better version of Cavallini) would be a better pairing than Larin / David. 

Thats not to say Larin / David wont be successful as a pair just due to pure talent

Cavallini has been struggling without a partner. He's still a class player and would do well with David or Larin up top.

[dyslexic nam]

I still think Larin can be the right partner.  We just have to sort it out.  David is a playmaking fox in the box and Larin can win balls and has decent hold up play (I think).  Those two elements should work together in the right system.  

For me, the bottom line is that Herdman needs to find a way to make it work.  We have two amazing strikers that can cause endless problems for opposing defences.  We need to find a system that maximizes their abilities in the context of the other important pieces we have.  With Davies and Tajon cutting in or crossing from their respective wings, there should be tons of balls coming in on the ground and in the air - as well as rebounds etc.  We have to utilize that potential.  

[PiedPilko]

35 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I still think Larin can be the right partner.  We just have to sort it out.  David is a playmaking fox in the box and Larin can win balls and has decent hold up play (I think).  Those two elements should work together in the right system.  

For me, the bottom line is that Herdman needs to find a way to make it work.  We have two amazing strikers that can cause endless problems for opposing defences.  We need to find a system that maximizes their abilities in the context of the other important pieces we have.  With Davies and Tajon cutting in or crossing from their respective wings, there should be tons of balls coming in on the ground and in the air - as well as rebounds etc.  We have to utilize that potential.  

His hold up play isn't great unfortunately. Larin's gotten better at using his size in the box and he's definitely gotten better at moving with the ball, but he still gives it up pretty easily.

[Floortom]

13 minutes ago, PiedPilko said:

His hold up play isn't great unfortunately. Larin's gotten better at using his size in the box and he's definitely gotten better at moving with the ball, but he still gives it up pretty easily.

Yep - Larin’s hold up play is not a strength. One of the reasons he’s found so much success at Besiktas is the way he’s been utilized he really doesn’t need to use his hold up play.

[PopePouri]

37 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I still think Larin can be the right partner.  We just have to sort it out.  David is a playmaking fox in the box and Larin can win balls and has decent hold up play (I think).  Those two elements should work together in the right system.  

For me, the bottom line is that Herdman needs to find a way to make it work.  We have two amazing strikers that can cause endless problems for opposing defences.  We need to find a system that maximizes their abilities in the context of the other important pieces we have.  With Davies and Tajon cutting in or crossing from their respective wings, there should be tons of balls coming in on the ground and in the air - as well as rebounds etc.  We have to utilize that potential.  

We tried that against Honduras and it didn't work. It's why Hoilett came on for his ability to drift inside and play between the lines.

IMO, I don't think we can have Davies, Buchanan, David and Larin together without hurting the balance of the team. Even in a 3-5-2, Davies isn't going to expend that amount of energy up the touchline especially during a cramped schedule, and Buchanan just doesn't have the defensive awareness. I'm going to assume one has to be sacrificed for Laryea, and that has to be Buchanan.

[dyslexic nam]

11 minutes ago, PopePouri said:

We tried that against Honduras and it didn't work. It's why Hoilett came on for his ability to drift inside and play between the lines.

IMO, I don't think we can have Davies, Buchanan, David and Larin together without hurting the balance of the team. Even in a 3-5-2, Davies isn't going to expend that amount of energy up the touchline especially during a cramped schedule, and Buchanan just doesn't have the defensive awareness. I'm going to assume one has to be sacrificed for Laryea, and that has to be Buchanan.

I will defer to you on the other comments, but I am not sure Buchanan sits for anyone other than Davies these days.  I think he has the potential to unlock defences in a direct way that very few of our guys can replicate.   Maybe that applies in a 3-5-2 where we are locked into that formation but when we are using anything like a traditional RW or right sided attacked, I think Buchanan is in there.   

[Mattd97]

If were going to be in the world cup, we're gonna need our top end talent out there. It hasn't been smooth and the skills sets might not fit perfectly but tajon, davies, David, and larin (and herdman) are going to have to figure it out. 

[Obinna]

I am with @dyslexic nam on this. I have faith in a Larin-David partnership and see the potential in it. From Herdman's interviews it appears he does as well. Neither guy is an expert at holding up the play, but I don't think that matters so much since each is decent enough. When was the last time the team suffered from poor hold up play anyways?

I think the biggest thing is for them to just get more reps so they learn to play together, which is to Nam's point. They just need to sort it out - and I think they will.

Edited October 26, 2021 by Obinna

[Kadenge]

1 hour ago, PopePouri said:

We tried that against Honduras and it didn't work. It's why Hoilett came on for his ability to drift inside and play between the lines.

IMO, I don't think we can have Davies, Buchanan, David and Larin together without hurting the balance of the team. Even in a 3-5-2, Davies isn't going to expend that amount of energy up the touchline especially during a cramped schedule, and Buchanan just doesn't have the defensive awareness. I'm going to assume one has to be sacrificed for Laryea, and that has to be Buchanan.

For the Mexico game we may  need  a back 4 to counter their tendency to attack on the wings where they overload 1 side with their attacking fullback and winger like they did on their goal at Azteca. 

[B_Leaf]

2 hours ago, PopePouri said:

We tried that against Honduras and it didn't work. It's why Hoilett came on for his ability to drift inside and play between the lines.

IMO, I don't think we can have Davies, Buchanan, David and Larin together without hurting the balance of the team. Even in a 3-5-2, Davies isn't going to expend that amount of energy up the touchline especially during a cramped schedule, and Buchanan just doesn't have the defensive awareness. I'm going to assume one has to be sacrificed for Laryea, and that has to be Buchanan.

What if you have Davies in the mid field with Estaquio. Then you have David and Larkin up front, with Buchanan on one wing, and Laryea on the other. David can track back some if Davies treks forward.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

11 hours ago, Obinna said:

I am with @dyslexic nam on this. I have faith in a Larin-David partnership and see the potential in it. From Herdman's interviews it appears he does as well. Neither guy is an expert at holding up the play, but I don't think that matters so much since each is decent enough. When was the last time the team suffered from poor hold up play anyways?

I think the biggest thing is for them to just get more reps so they learn to play together, which is to Nam's point. They just need to sort it out - and I think they will.

In general, we have not yet seen any of our striker combinations really clicking. We have not seen a highly effective complementary society being formed involving one of Larin or David, or both. 

I think that Tesho's hold up at the GC was weak at the Gold Cup, it was not as good as we needed in that match. You could argue we may need quality hold up vs. Mexico again, as we may need to go long and then push up to support a striker able to give the ball a turn or two until we get there.

[Obinna]

19 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

In general, we have not yet seen any of our striker combinations really clicking. We have not seen a highly effective complementary society being formed involving one of Larin or David, or both. 

I think that Tesho's hold up at the GC was weak at the Gold Cup, it was not as good as we needed in that match. You could argue we may need quality hold up vs. Mexico again, as we may need to go long and then push up to support a striker able to give the ball a turn or two until we get there.

Fair point.

It's easy to dismiss that as a one-off, since in GC we sent a very depleted team put against a Mexican A team (or one could argue -A/+B), but you're right.  We could be in that situation again very easily, if not against a strong Mexico then perhaps against the USA (when/if they finally start clicking).

I'd like to think we won't be that shorthanded against either for the remainder of the qualification phase, but nothing is guaranteed. 

The counterpoint I would argue is that we already have that hold up player in Cavallini. When the game needs hold up play, you bring him on. We probably can't count on his fitness though, admittedly, so David/Larin may have to do a better job than Akindele, which I think they can.

Speaking of which, don't forget that one lay off to Eustaquio. Yes his hold up play was far too inconsistent, but there were good moments.

Overall I am still not worried about hold up play from our top 2 forwards. I would like to see it improve, but it doesn't cause me concern, not yet anyways.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, B_Leaf said:

What if you have Davies in the mid field with Estaquio. Then you have David and Larkin up front, with Buchanan on one wing, and Laryea on the other. David can track back some if Davies treks forward.  

I am not sure that's the best way to deploy Davies, if you are suggesting we play in the middle paired with Eustaquio. I actually think he could play there if we wanted, I just view it as sub-optimal for the team. 

I tend to agree with @PopePouri that having all on the field throws off the balance. Davies, Buchanan and Laryea all deserve to start, but I think one has to be sacrificed (and it obviously won't be Davies).

If you wanted to get them all on the field, the best way to get them all on the field (in my humble opinion) may be this:

-----------David---Larin-----------

Davies------------------------Buchanan

--------Eustaquio---Other-----------

Adekugbe--Miller---Vitoria---Laryea

---------------Keeper---------------

The problem here is that I am not convinced Herdman sits Johnston for Laryea, since the latter gives us the tactical flexibility to shift to a back 3. Also, here Richie Laryea would need to be more defensive minded with Buchanan in front of him, which he can certainly do, but if that's what you want why not go with Johnston (the more defensive-minded fullback in the pool)?

It's a good problem to have, fitting all these pieces into play.

At the end of the day though, Larin has to start, no if ands or buts. Furthermore, I think we want him and David paired, and since neither is an excellent hold-up player, we should have them fluidly interchange.

The challenge as I see it is having them learn to take turns dropping deep to play make, while the other runs in behind. That just comes with reps it shouldn't be mission impossible. I am not convinced we are talking about forcing square pegs into rounded holes on the Larin-David subject.

Edit: I think Herdman is licking his chops at having two playmaking forwards on the field, since having both share the responsibility keeps opponents guessing. Herdman loves flexibility.

I think it's only a matter of time before they figure it out. 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Obinna

[archer21]

3 hours ago, Obinna said:

I am not sure that's the best way to deploy Davies, if you are suggesting we play in the middle paired with Eustaquio. I actually think he could play there if we wanted, I just view it as sub-optimal for the team. 

I tend to agree with @PopePouri that having all on the field throws off the balance. Davies, Buchanan and Laryea all deserve to start, but I think one has to be sacrificed (and it obviously won't be Davies).

If you wanted to get them all on the field, the best way to get them all on the field (in my humble opinion) may be this:

-----------David---Larin-----------

Davies------------------------Buchanan

--------Eustaquio---Other-----------

Adekugbe--Miller---Vitoria---Laryea

---------------Keeper---------------

The problem here is that I am not convinced Herdman sits Johnston for Laryea, since the latter gives us the tactical flexibility to shift to a back 3. Also, here Richie Laryea would need to be more defensive minded with Buchanan in front of him, which he can certainly do, but if that's what you want why not go with Johnston (the more defensive-minded fullback in the pool)?

It's a good problem to have, fitting all these pieces into play.

At the end of the day though, Larin has to start, no if ands or buts. Furthermore, I think we want him and David paired, and since neither is an excellent hold-up player, we should have them fluidly interchange.

The challenge as I see it is having them learn to take turns dropping deep to play make, while the other runs in behind. That just comes with reps it shouldn't be mission impossible. I am not convinced we are talking about forcing square pegs into rounded holes on the Larin-David subject.

Edit: I think Herdman is licking his chops at having two playmaking forwards on the field, since having both share the responsibility keeps opponents guessing. Herdman loves flexibility.

I think it's only a matter of time before they figure it out. 

I think our strongest lineup is probably what you posted, but with Laryea at LB, Johnston at RB. Herdman has shown that he’s not really willing to sit Johnston, and that he thinks Laryea can do the job at LB. it’s a very versatile lineup because you can easily switch to a back 3/5 (a big reason why Johnston is always in the lineup). 
 

[BrennanFan]

44 minutes ago, archer21 said:

I think our strongest lineup is probably what you posted, but with Laryea at LB, Johnston at RB. Herdman has shown that he’s not really willing to sit Johnston, and that he thinks Laryea can do the job at LB. it’s a very versatile lineup because you can easily switch to a back 3/5 (a big reason why Johnston is always in the lineup). 
 

Yup.  This is it.  The starting lineup now picks itself whether we like it or not.  I'd personally like to see three central mids and the calmness and veteran savvy of Junior Hoilett out there.  But, no matter what their form is from here on out, you just can't leave game-breaker talents like Larin, Buchanan, David and Laryea on the bench.  Untouchables.  Davies, Eustaquio and Johnston are basically God-Tier starters.  Miller and Vitoria are the best we've got at the back and in my view Osorio, Kaye, Hutchinson and Wotherspoon are basically interchangeable for the last midfield spot.  Borjan, our captain, rounds out our 11.  This is the team.  So be it.