Canada and the 2024 Copa America

[CanadaFan123]

11 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I think the Trinidad game was used to have a look at domestic bubble guys and the friendly in June will be used to look at the European bubble guys. Let's just say it like this, there is no way Shaffelburg is even in the 24 let alone our starting 11. So the guy smashed the ball in to the net on a 3 on 1 in injury time. Before that he was chasing shadows around the field looking completely lost. I put Waterman in a similar category. He was ok against Trinidad but looked very limited at times. We have to have better options out there

Harsh analysis of Shaffelburg looking lost and chasing shadows. I do agree with the general point though. 

[SpursFlu]

18 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Harsh analysis of Shaffelburg looking lost and chasing shadows. I do agree with the general point though. 

Might sound harsh. I know he's a fan favorite. Maritimer, another player hard done by by TFC etc etc. He's a fun player, overachiever.. I like the guy don't get me wrong. I just think we have other young players with more upside. Shaffelburg is solid against these Gold Cup level Concacaf teams but against bigger countries I think he's out of his depth. Sorry folks

[InglewoodJack]

5 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Might sound harsh. I know he's a fan favorite. Maritimer, another player hard done by by TFC etc etc. He's a fun player, overachiever.. I like the guy don't get me wrong. I just think we have other young players with more upside. Shaffelburg is solid against these Gold Cup level Concacaf teams but against bigger countries I think he's out of his depth. Sorry folks

I agree with the point, but if he’s not in the 23 man lineup, who are you calling up instead?

[Obinna]

13 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Might sound harsh. I know he's a fan favorite. Maritimer, another player hard done by by TFC etc etc. He's a fun player, overachiever.. I like the guy don't get me wrong. I just think we have other young players with more upside. Shaffelburg is solid against these Gold Cup level Concacaf teams but against bigger countries I think he's out of his depth. Sorry folks

I suspect you are right but with how his game has improved with Nashville I am curious if he can eventually jump another level and ultimately be useful against the biggest countries. I think it starts with improving his production in 2024, like Wheeler said.

If he can consistently be a 10 Goal 10 Assist guy in MLS, he's probably going to be useful against teams outside our region.

And if he can do that this year and next maybe he's even in Europe ahead of the World Cup.

[CanadaFan123]

26 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Might sound harsh. I know he's a fan favorite. Maritimer, another player hard done by by TFC etc etc. He's a fun player, overachiever.. I like the guy don't get me wrong. I just think we have other young players with more upside. Shaffelburg is solid against these Gold Cup level Concacaf teams but against bigger countries I think he's out of his depth. Sorry folks

I just think you saying he ran around aimlessly harsh. The kid knows his role out there though. One thing I would add that works against him is his lack of fire. He’s too much of a golden retriever - needs more bite. Other guys in our squad are killers.

[JAVIERF]

TBF Canada needs to play s second string eleven Vs the argies.  No fuss sensible football.  If you draw or win , its gonna be good,  then you have your main assets for the last couple of games

Where Canada fights for Qualifying.  If a second string team can get a draw ,  will uplift the whole team spirit.

A rested Canada team could be handy since the peru Vs Chile is similar to the FEUD E.S VS H, even a war!!

[JAVIERF]

A second string Canada could be 

...............ST CLAIR.,.................

LAYREA  Cornélius Kennedy Adkgb

Osorio  Piette Choiniere Millar

           Ukbo              Bair 

[CanadaFan123]

17 minutes ago, JAVIERF said:

TBF Canada needs to play s second string eleven Vs the argies.  No fuss sensible football.  If you draw or win , its gonna be good,  then you have your main assets for the last couple of games

Where Canada fights for Qualifying.  If a second string team can get a draw ,  will uplift the whole team spirit.

A rested Canada team could be handy since the peru Vs Chile is similar to the FEUD E.S VS H, even a war!!

Nice thought but I can guarantee you that David, Davies, Larin, Eustaquio have not busted their asses and raised us to this level to then sit on the bench against the world champions. 

[InglewoodJack]

I’m not Argentinian so my opinion doesn’t matter much obviously, but me, personally, I think our players have the stamina to play 3 games not just two. 

[costarg]

2 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

He has very good pace, works very hard - including on defence, has has a lot of tools going both ways.  However, to go up a level, he has to have a more consistent final ball.  Including finishing.  You can YouTube highlights of some nice finishes (playing from wingback) but if you watch full games he does still wastes some of his excellent earlier work, too often. 

Regarding the bold part, who are we talking about again?  Millar or Davies?

Yes, Davies is better than Millar, no question.  This isn't pee-wee, our best player doesn't have to play up top.  He isn't the only goal threat we have.  Look at our roster man.  Davies can do so much more than just attack.  None of what you wrote proves they shouldn't play together on the same side.

Once again, bottom line, until there is another coach that can fix things and guys not covering for each other, or getting open, leaving gaps at the back.  For Canada, I feel Davies is 1 LB, 2 LW, 3 LWB.  CANMNT is better with an extra wide player than a 3rd CB.

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Corazon]

And assuming everyone in the group loses to Argentina, you have 3 fairly even teams fighting it out for runner up.  Canada, Chile and Peru could easily all end up 1-1-1 or 1-2-0 or maybe two of the 3 teams tie each other and beat the other.  Regardless, there is a chance that goal differential will matter.  Putting out our B squad against Argentina’s A squad could almost single handily put us out in regards to a potential future tiebreak.  Let alone, the potential embarrassment with all eyes on the opening game.  

Edited March 28 by Corazon

[frmr]

Yeah zero chance we play a B team at any point in this tournament.

[Kent]

One of the biggest reasons we wanted this tournament is to give our players more experience against good teams outside our region for the 2026 World Cup. So yeah, I don't think they will bench our best players for the one game against a team that played in the last World Cup.

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

Regarding the bold part, who are we talking about again?  Millar or Davies?

Yes, Davies is better than Millar, no question.  This isn't pee-wee, our best player doesn't have to play up top.  He isn't the only goal threat we have.  Look at our roster man.  Davies can do so much more than just attack.  None of what you wrote proves they shouldn't play together on the same side.

Once again, bottom line, until there is another coach that can fix things and guys not covering for each other, or getting open, leaving gaps at the back.  For Canada, I feel Davies is 1 LB, 2 LW, 3 LWB.  CANMNT is better with an extra wide player than a 3rd CB.

This is starting to feel more like an Anti- 3atb tirade as opposed to davies best position. 

I agree with @WestHamCanadianinOxford. Davies at leftback is still going to play hero ball. Theres more risk of us getting countered on davies side while hes way up the field with a slower LCB. 

Does a world class leftback help us more than playing davies LWB or LW where he may not be elite but his production is elite within concacaf? 

Why do zinchenko and alaba ( i know hes now a CB but he played CM for austria while he was a lb) play other positions than LB for their nations?

[Shway]

3 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Might sound harsh. I know he's a fan favorite. Maritimer, another player hard done by by TFC etc etc. He's a fun player, overachiever.. I like the guy don't get me wrong. I just think we have other young players with more upside. Shaffelburg is solid against these Gold Cup level Concacaf teams but against bigger countries I think he's out of his depth. Sorry folks

And who's in their depths against other opponents? There's only a few.

My point came about Shaffelburg being g a super sub, being able to run at defenders when chasing a game. I never mentioned him starting.

8 games barely any minutes and has 2 goals in big games. Not friendlies.

Where guys like @Bigandyare putting Davies at LB or Buchanan on the bench to put Millar on at LW when he's been performing best  at LWB for Preston.

I get it's just opinions, but make it make sense. 

Edited March 28 by Shway

[Watchmen]

You don't play your B team at the Copa (if you're Canada).  Big tournament experience is the most valuable thing our players need, and it's impossible to replicate in friendlies. Even the Gold Cup isn't on this level. It's one of the reasons the US and Mexico are fine but not actual contenders at the WC.

[Treppy2]

1 hour ago, frmr said:

Yeah zero chance we play a B team at any point in this tournament.

I don't know about that. We might see a few B-team players start the third-place match if Argentina gets past us in the semi-final. 🙃

[Bigandy]

40 minutes ago, Shway said:

And who's in their depths against other opponents? There's only a few.

My point came about Shaffelburg being g a super sub, being able to run at defenders when chasing a game. I never mentioned him starting.

8 games barely any minutes and has 2 goals in big games. Not friendlies.

Where guys like @Bigandyare putting Davies at LB or Buchanan on the bench to put Millar on at LW when he's been performing best  at LWB for Preston.

I get it's just opinions, but make it make sense. 

Woah. I'll make it make sense because you are wildly inaccurate with quoting me. Perhaps you misread my posts. 

You mentioned that shaf would contribute to CMNT whenever hes playing. Simple miscommunication that I thought you meant in any scenario. We both agree hes a good super sub in specific scenarios. We share the same opinion on shaf. 

I've never put buchanan on the bench for millar. I've posted tons of line ups on this forum and not once have I ever done that.  

I've debated quite extensively about the benefits of a 3-5-2 because buchanan, davies and millar are performing so well in those positions. Ask @costarg about how extensive my arguments were over the 3-5-2. 

However, I've made several lineup predictions where we play a 4-4-2 (based on how biello has done this in the past). In a 4-4-2, without laryea and adekugbe, who else but davies goes left back. Who else goes lw other than millar.  Predictions considering injuries vs what I support are not the same thing. 

I've also done some thought exercises on here with the personnel for different strategies. Ex. A counter attack strategy that had millar up top, or a 4-2-3-1 with choiniere dropping into a LB role so davies can act more like a wingback.  Not what I want but a fun thought.  
 

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

And who's in their depths against other opponents? There's only a few.

My point came about Shaffelburg being g a super sub, being able to run at defenders when chasing a game. I never mentioned him starting.

8 games barely any minutes and has 2 goals in big games. Not friendlies.

Where guys like @Bigandyare putting Davies at LB or Buchanan on the bench to put Millar on at LW when he's been performing best  at LWB for Preston.

I get it's just opinions, but make it make sense. 

We also debated about a 3-4-3 where you said no one plays it.

In the T and T match, shaf came on at LWB. Davies, david and larin/JRR played as the 3 up top in a 3-4-3. This led to the goal. 

My whole reasoning of a 3-4-3 was to get buchanan, davies and millar all on the field. So I do think you are quoting me as saying the exact opposite of how I feel.  

Not trying to pick a fight or anything because I can tell you have a good grasp of the game. I just want to clarify my stance.

[kacbru]

All Shaff did was score on a 3-1 break?? Did he not smash one off the post from outside the 18? I suppose he must have just had his eyes closed and was imagining kicking an undersized fish off the wharf and got lucky. 

Give the guy some credit. No one but the Argentinian expert is putting him on the first 11.

[Bigandy]

4 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I think the Trinidad game was used to have a look at domestic bubble guys and the friendly in June will be used to look at the European bubble guys. Let's just say it like this, there is no way Shaffelburg is even in the 24 let alone our starting 11. So the guy smashed the ball in to the net on a 3 on 1 in injury time. Before that he was chasing shadows around the field looking completely lost. I put Waterman in a similar category. He was ok against Trinidad but looked very limited at times. We have to have better options out there

As @CanadaFan123 says. Harsh analysis (because its hard not to like shaffelburg) ....but true. 

In the 85th minute, T and T had their 2nd best chance to tie the game. A simple give and go where shaf completely forgets to follow his man, a meg on waterman and then a clutch (but routine) save from crepeau.

That could easily have gone in. At 1-1 we shaf is now at fault for a goal against and he never gets to counter attack and score. We all would have been crucifying shaf for his mistake but because #11 cant finish, the feeling is that shaf has cemented his spot for copa.... 

He's not a wingback. We all know he has some crazy great strengths and some areas of weakness. I still love watching the guy but I wouldnt say hes cemented in my copa squad yet... 

Edit: Shaf actually opens up his body to create a lane for his runner. He's encouraging this run to be made. 

Edited March 28 by Bigandy

[narduch]

15 minutes ago, kacbru said:

All Shaff did was score on a 3-1 break?? Did he not smash one off the post from outside the 18? I suppose he must have just had his eyes closed and was imagining kicking an undersized fish off the wharf and got lucky. 

Give the guy some credit. No one but the Argentinian expert is putting him on the first 11.

Agreed

Also scored v USA in the past Gold Cup.

And 2 against Messi's Inter Miami. 

[Bigandy]

21 minutes ago, kacbru said:

All Shaff did was score on a 3-1 break?? Did he not smash one off the post from outside the 18? I suppose he must have just had his eyes closed and was imagining kicking an undersized fish off the wharf and got lucky. 

Give the guy some credit. No one but the Argentinian expert is putting him on the first 11.

That's my bad. I meant, all he did on the goal was touch and hit. Great finish but my sentiment was that he didnt do anything on the goal that suggests he offers a broader skillset.

His shot from 30 yards out was amazing. 

He deserves so much credit for his strengths but he also almost cost us the win with his negligent defensive work. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

27 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

That's my bad. I meant, all he did on the goal was touch and hit. Great finish but my sentiment was that he didnt do anything on the goal that suggests he offers a broader skillset.

His shot from 30 yards out was amazing. 

He deserves so much credit for his strengths but he also almost cost us the win with his negligent defensive work. 

In fairness, on that defensive play he switched off and literally ran in the opposite direction with the play still on. But check Kamal on that play, covering a non threat outside and not even pretending to cover the attacker.

Difference imo is that Shaft was fresh and fresh legs have no excuse.