Canada and the 2024 Copa America

[Craig11rm]

2 hours ago, An Observer said:

Every time i look at these line ups it makes me think we could really use Gauld.  Having him play behind David and in front of the midfield would provide that link between them and the wings.  It’s the player we are missing.  Plus Gauld puts such a shift in defensively. Having him part of that press with David, Davies and Buchanan would make us a difficult to play against and we would have the speed/stamina to counter even the best teams.

Gauld might be my favourite non-Canadian player in MLS besides Messi. I watch a lot of Whitecaps so I could be a little bias but he could be the hardest working DP in the league. Last night he was in his own 6 yard making big defensive plays.

 

[Sal333]

8 hours ago, The Pessimist said:

Di Maria could be substituted by Messi. But it doesn't matter what lineup Canada plays. We're in trouble.

Maybe we can dress Bobby Clarke and ask him to use his cleats instead of his stick on the three forwards. All in one play.  

[An Observer]

3 hours ago, Craig11rm said:

Gauld might be my favourite non-Canadian player in MLS besides Messi. I watch a lot of Whitecaps so I could be a little bias but he could be the hardest working DP in the league. Last night he was in his own 6 yard making big defensive plays.

 

That is one of the things I really like about him as against better teams we will need to outwork them especially on the defensive end as well as having enough skill and speed to take advantage of the opportunities we get on the counter

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Obinna]

6 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

 

Funny how the brain works. I saw One Soccer, Canada Soccer, Green jersey, and how to defeat Argentina, and my brain took all that in and said: "What? Mexico suck now they could never beat Argentina"! 

[JAVIERF]

What panned out as a against the wall tournament,   the Saudi match we had 3 goals disallowed. When one of Lautaro's was legit because the system didn't check the last defender it was a bit of scandal on that ,  kudos to them on second half. But I watch then Vs Poland and Poland ,  who weren't significant,  ( maybe their best match was in patches Vs France in first half were they should have done it ). Then Giroud scored and chasing the gane Vs France is hard because they love direct counters 

[JAVIERF]

Bielsa's Uruguay beat as with very cagey but they were like terriers and two up front ,  

[JAVIERF]

These are the 23 fellows I will take to Copa América if I was the coach based on my wide football understanding and knowledge.  

GK

Crepeau / Borjan/ ST Clair

DF Johnston McNaughton Miller Kennedy Zator Waterman Layrea

MF Piette Fraser Eustaquio Koné Shaffelburg  Davies Colyn

ST David Larin Curbeanu Bair Buchanan Millar 

 

 

[JAVIERF]

35 minutes ago, JAVIERF said:

These are the 23 fellows I will take to Copa América if I was the coach based on my wide football understanding and knowledge.  

GK

Crepeau / Borjan/ ST Clair

DF Johnston McNaughton Miller Kennedy Zator Waterman Layrea

MF Piette Fraser Eustaquio Koné Shaffelburg  Davies Colyn

ST David Larin Curbeanu Bair Buchanan Millar 

 

 

Stand by 

Sirois

Godinho/Rollet/McGraw/ Adekugbe

Osorio Choiniere Kayé

Ukbo Cavallini

Bair Is the in form player but I would take Cavallini before anyone because he is a proven international goalscorer something that Bair and Ugbo aren't yet

[Kent]

5 hours ago, JAVIERF said:

GK

Crepeau / Borjan/ ST Clair

DF Johnston McNaughton Miller Kennedy Zator Waterman Layrea

MF Piette Fraser Eustaquio Koné Shaffelburg  Davies Colyn

ST David Larin Curbeanu Bair Buchanan Millar 

My entire world is shattered. I don't even know who JAVIERF is anymore.

Edited April 2 by Kent

[MauditYvon]

Who's that Rollet in defense? Look interesting.

[Bigandy]

On 3/29/2024 at 3:15 PM, costarg said:

It's all connected really.  I'm a fan of back-3, but as discussed several times, not in our current flavor of it.  We don't have the players for it until we stop with the Johnston CB insanity.  Once the younglings crack the starting line-up we can re-discuss and evaluate.

Johnston didn't play CB for Nashville, not before Nashville, not for Montreal, not for Celtic.  Herman and Biello are the only coaches that have done and continue to do this.  Nothing about his skill or profile say CB.  He's smart and athletic, so he can pull it off, but we aren't helping him or CANMNT in the process.

Just an example of what the back 3 forces us into.

 

We are all with you. Johnstons not a RCB. It just gets a bit odd that Johnston is the crucial player for you when determining our line up. The argument you make over and over is johnston out of position. However, you never talk about playing tajon out of position as a right winger instead of at wingback. 

Johnstons fantastic but hes not a top 5 player for canada and arguably behind laryea at right back. Why is he so crucial that we should work our formation around him? 

For the record, the johnston insanity won us WCQ. Again, we are all with you that johnston isnt a CB. However, the evidence has shown that it wasnt insanity.... it was brilliance that helped us over achieve.... Theres a strong case that its now time to move on but at the time of WCQ it was anything but insanity. 

 

[Obinna]

48 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

We are all with you. Johnstons not a RCB. It just gets a bit odd that Johnston is the crucial player for you when determining our line up. The argument you make over and over is johnston out of position. However, you never talk about playing tajon out of position as a right winger instead of at wingback. 

Johnstons fantastic but hes not a top 5 player for canada and arguably behind laryea at right back. Why is he so crucial that we should work our formation around him? 

For the record, the johnston insanity won us WCQ. Again, we are all with you that johnston isnt a CB. However, the evidence has shown that it wasnt insanity.... it was brilliance that helped us over achieve.... Theres a strong case that its now time to move on but at the time of WCQ it was anything but insanity. 

 

Good post.

I think we put too much importance on position sometimes. Sure, Johnston is not a natural CB, but he's been good for Canada there. Not perfect but definitely solid.

I want to see him at RB like most, or even RWB. He's proven at club he can be good there, and he's been good for RB with Canada already, so I think it's a matter of time before that happens. As you alluded to, we didn't have a great alternative for the RCB during WCQ, but now that Bombito has emerged we have a realistic alternative. I am willing to play Bombito there right now, or at least have him as "next man up" after Johnston, at minimum. 

Here's the thing though, I think Johnston at this point is a better player than Bombito. I love his ceiling and attributes, but I think in an important game you don't sit Johnston to play Bombito. Similarly, I don't think you sit Buchanan to play Johnston. BUT you cannot play Tajon and Johnston in the same position, and if you want both of these players on the field the end result will see Johnston back in that RCB role. 

Again, I would love to see Bombito in there, but who sits? Maybe Johnston? Maybe a flat back 4 with Johnston at RB and Tajon as a winger? 

[costarg]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

We are all with you. Johnstons not a RCB. It just gets a bit odd that Johnston is the crucial player for you when determining our line up. The argument you make over and over is johnston out of position. However, you never talk about playing tajon out of position as a right winger instead of at wingback. 

Johnstons fantastic but hes not a top 5 player for canada and arguably behind laryea at right back. Why is he so crucial that we should work our formation around him? 

For the record, the johnston insanity won us WCQ. Again, we are all with you that johnston isnt a CB. However, the evidence has shown that it wasnt insanity.... it was brilliance that helped us over achieve.... Theres a strong case that its now time to move on but at the time of WCQ it was anything but insanity. 

 

That's easy, other coaches have played Tajon at the wing, the role does suit his skillset.  He has the tools to be successful there.  Johnston only plays CB for Canada, no other coach has tried because it does not suit him. 

Johnston didn't "win us" WCQ, the team did.  We were desperate and resorted to desperate tactics.  We are no longer desperate, Johnston goes back to RB and Bombito at CB for me.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

31 minutes ago, costarg said:

Johnston didn't "win us" WCQ, the team did.  We were desperate and resorted to desperate tactics.  We are no longer desperate, Johnston goes back to RB and Bombito at CB for me.

Respectfully, that is your interpretation of what went on in professional managers' minds and I would say from evidence, not one that can be well supported.  Many managers, including some of the best, have played players who are normally fullbacks as a wide centre backs in a three because they like the skill set they bring: speed, passing and even crossing usually.   And when they have good centre backs fit. 

If Bombito can do everything Johnston can do and is bigger and strong, of course you go with him.  But it is still earlier days, we have to see him to find out. 

Edited April 2 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[JAVIERF]

Johnson can't play centre back maybe a right center back with a Vitoria or other fellow ,  the guy is a full back rmid or in extremis a leftbck

[JAVIERF]

Your main problem today is who replaces Victoria 

Well for me it has to be Waterman and McNaughton Canada center backs in a back 4

If you play a back 3 

Waterman Kennedy or Zator and Miller

 

[Bigandy]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

That's easy, other coaches have played Tajon at the wing, the role does suit his skillset.  He has the tools to be successful there.  Johnston only plays CB for Canada, no other coach has tried because it does not suit him. 

Johnston didn't "win us" WCQ, the team did.  We were desperate and resorted to desperate tactics.  We are no longer desperate, Johnston goes back to RB and Bombito at CB for me.

didnt Johnston played RCB for montreal at times? 

I dont think you can say winning WCQ was desperate. Thats such a disservice tto what the team and herdman did tactically. If the wuality of those performances were desperate, then I want more desperation because 2021 Canada has been much better than 2023 onwards canada. 

I'm with you though. Bombito at RCB for me too. Ask @Obinna. I've been a bombito guy for ages. 

 

[costarg]

12 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

didnt Johnston played RCB for montreal at times? 

Nope - only RWB.  He never played CB at Nashville or before either.  

14 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I dont think you can say winning WCQ was desperate. Thats such a disservice tto what the team and herdman did tactically. If the wuality of those performances were desperate, then I want more desperation because 2021 Canada has been much better than 2023 onwards canada. 

Even with the results - I don't think any of us can say we were comfortable with the backline at any point during WCQ.  Worked out in the end, huge thanks to Vitorias and Johnstons soccer IQ mainly, but individually it was a nail-biter. 

14 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

I'm with you though. Bombito at RCB for me too. Ask @Obinna. I've been a bombito guy for ages. 

100%

[Bigandy]

5 minutes ago, costarg said:

Nope - only RWB.  He never played CB at Nashville or before either.  

Even with the results - I don't think any of us can say we were comfortable with the backline at any point during WCQ.  Worked out in the end, huge thanks to Vitorias and Johnstons soccer IQ mainly, but individually it was a nail-biter. 

100%

A quick google search shows that AJ played RCB in the 2nd game of the 2022 season vs philidelphia. 

We had the best defensive record in the region with one of the weakest CM and backlines. Not sure I would call that a nail biter. Surely vitoria and johnston are not miles ahead of pulisic, lozano, jiminez etc with their soccer IQ. Surely it was that the team as a whole was better than each player individually is. Therefore, the 3-5-2 with AJ at RCB was not desperate...it was successful and by design. 

[costarg]

5 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

A quick google search shows that AJ played RCB in the 2nd game of the 2022 season vs philidelphia. 

Nah, that was Waterman.

 

7 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

We had the best defensive record in the region with one of the weakest CM and backlines. Not sure I would call that a nail biter. Surely vitoria and johnston are not miles ahead of pulisic, lozano, jiminez etc with their soccer IQ. Surely it was that the team as a whole was better than each player individually is. Therefore, the 3-5-2 with AJ at RCB was not desperate...it was successful and by design. 

Totally agree, it worked with surprising results.  But no coach/team is buying Johnston to play him at RCB.  It happened because he was the best option given our situation.  Any and every club would have traded for a real RCB.  I'm very comfortable saying none of us were comfortable with that backline in 2021-2022.  

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

52 minutes ago, costarg said:

Even with the results - I don't think any of us can say we were comfortable with the backline at any point during WCQ.  Worked out in the end, huge thanks to Vitorias and Johnstons soccer IQ mainly, but individually it was a nail-biter. 

You are never comfortable, you are always trying to get better but hard for me to say the defence was generally "nail-biting" when when we has the lowest goals against in the Octo

We never gave up more than 1 goal in a game.

And most were not the formation or the player in question. 

- Tajon's penalty against Honduras

- Costa Rica and Panana (1-1) we got done on the break - not fast enough from Miller a couple times if I remember correctly

- USA 1-1 was Kennedy and Henry not picking up Aaronson 

- The 1-1 in Mexico, was Vitoria being not quick enough to pressure the pass and Laryea not picking up his man. 

 

The goal against Mexico in Edmonton was a late runner, Tajon probable should have had him and left the man he was marking to Johnston,  but maybe somehow Johnston picks it up. 

Johnston was at fault for 1 in the 4-1 at home against Panama. 

 

Those are the 7 goals against, you can tell a lot about a team over 14 games. 

 

PS. Don't take anything any site says as gospel on formation, watch the game or even the highlights. You know how wrong they have been number of times. 

 

Edited April 2 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Bigandy]

47 minutes ago, costarg said:

Nah, that was Waterman.

 

Totally agree, it worked with surprising results.  But no coach/team is buying Johnston to play him at RCB.  It happened because he was the best option given our situation.  Any and every club would have traded for a real RCB.  I'm very comfortable saying none of us were comfortable with that backline in 2021-2022.  

You're quoting the wrong game. March 5 2022. Go check it out if you dont believe me. 

I was comfortable with the back line in 2021-2022. I sincerely wished we conceded as few goals as we used to..... 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

You're quoting the wrong game. March 5 2022. Go check it out if you dont believe me. 

I was comfortable with the back line in 2021-2022. I sincerely wished we conceded as few goals as we used to..... 

There are a few more with Montreal including the Cruz Azul quarterfinals. 

He also actually played in a 3 with Zimmerman and Romney at Nashville a couple times. One of which he kept Shaffellburg onside for the latter's second goal for TFC.

Herdman not the  innovator we thought he was 😉.

Edited April 2 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[JAVIERF]

I didn't mind the stomp on Messi the other day,  it was football .  Thats is football,   of course that was a kicking from old fashioned defended now you have cameras everywhere.

MacNaughton seems someone who Could be the no nonsenses at the back,  

Canada fragilities is the defenders now,  who is gonna replace Vitoria,  who I wouldn't take away but he needs two faster players left and right 

If Canada plays Victoria it is a back 5 back 3,  if not a back 4 .

 

In a back four ,  the fullbacks more less is solved. The centerbacks in the thing.  

I would try MACNAUGHTON with Miller for start then if they can't gel together , options .  

Center defenders is curiously your Aquiles' heel