Canada and the 2024 Copa America

[Macksam]

15 hours ago, 74 Whitecap said:

One of the frustrating things about international soccer is how hard it is to judge one confederation vs another because they play so few meaningful games against each other.  So I think the Copa will be fascinating because of how many games between Concacaf and Conmebol there will be. It will be a rare chance for two confederations to really to go toe to toe in depth, not just a small handful of games that are hard to draw any conclusions from. We know Brazil and Argentina are tops, but what about the rest, should be super interesting to see how it plays out.

Rare up until now. I can see the CONCACAF/CONMEBOL partnership continuing. I predict the men's Gold Cup going the way of the dodo bird with the combined COPA America becoming the defacto championship of the Americas going forward. I can also see the Nation's league being rebranded and including the ten CONMEBOL teams with the top division being 4 groups of 4, and whoever is in the top division would be the ones that qualify for the COPA during the year that tournament is being played. The only thing that will be kept separate would be World Cup qualification, and Confederation Cup participants can be the team that placed highest for either confederation during the years COPA is played. 

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[red card]

8 hours ago, JamboAl said:

Any US home match against Mexico is an away match.  If anyone has a chance to go, would highly recommend it.  Utter anarchy!

Some scenes of anarchy from Sunday:

 

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

31 minutes ago, red card said:

Some scenes of anarchy from Sunday:

 

 

With security checks you have go through to be an away fan in lots of places in Europe, coming back and seeing non separate sections is still wild to me.

[SpursFlu]

I'm still trying to figure out the classless American fan part. Looks like someone just finally got sick of the BS and fought back for once

[red card]

21 hours ago, Macksam said:

 

I suspect hype will become really strong in the weeks building up to it, especially considering we'll be involved in the opening showpiece match, and I believe this COPA could rival the EURO in TV ratings...not a massive task considering the past two EUROs have produced awful soccer. 

 

Copa America has a long way to go to catch the Euros in Canada.

There is large cache of European national teams with large fan bases led by England & Italy. Portugal, Germany, Croatia, France, Poland, Scotland & now Ukraine also likely have larger bases than any country in Copa America ex Canada. Messi Messi Messi maybe pulls up Argentina.

So, the England/Italy final averaged 3.6m while the Brazil/Argentina final the night before averaged 528k. Even with some on weekdays, all the Euro quarterfinal & semifinal matches also outdrew Copa's Final.

 

 

Edited March 27 by red card

[kacbru]

6 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

I think Ecuador beats Mexico 

With that in mind, all things considered, we actually have a pretty doable path to the final 4

And then there's me with my fingers and toes crossed that we squeeze out a draw in our group.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

9 minutes ago, kacbru said:

And then there's me with my fingers and toes crossed that we squeeze out a draw in our group.

Really depends if we can pull together a team with a clear way of playing and all the players buy in.

On paper at least (no one has been able to give me examples otherwise) we have more difference makers than Peru and even Chile, given some their big ones are fading.  

Neither have been in great form since the World Cup, which neither made. 

I don't think we need to be scared but instead proffessional with a real plan to let our stars shine. 

[Shway]

I feel like expectations are really low, and I don't know why. My expectations is that we leave the group, because I personally dont rate Chile anymore or Peru.

I was looking at Chiles roster today, and they got guys like Isla still in their lineup at fullback! I would love for us to absorb and counter against these teams, I think that's what we neeed to get back too.

If we try to make it a possession game, it won't benefit our game. 

[gigi riva]

I am very curouis to see What the global TV audience The Copa gets . Other than South / Central America  which I am sure they draw massive audience . do they care about it in  Asia , or Africa .  Going head to head vs the Euros will be a bit of a challenge

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

I feel like expectations are really low, and I don't know why. My expectations is that we leave the group, because I personally dont rate Chile anymore or Peru.

I was looking at Chiles roster today, and they got guys like Isla still in their lineup at fullback! I would love for us to absorb and counter against these teams, I think that's what we neeed to get back too.

If we try to make it a possession game, it won't benefit our game. 

I agree with this as well. The OS guys seemed more pessimistic than I expected. I do expect this team to get out of the group, which is something none of them (besides Wheeler I guess) were willing to say. I get the arguments of why we should expect less, but we collectively need to start expecting more, imo.

No disrespect to Peru or Chile, but these teams seem beatable to me. We should back ourselves. If we fail we fail, it happens, but let's lift the bar a bit.

Maybe everyone is ultra cautious after the World Cup exit after 2 games? If we lose to Argentina (likely) and Peru (possible), we are eliminated again, after just two games. Maybe people are drawing comparisons between the WC group stage (toughest team first, do or die in match 2)?

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, red card said:

Copa America has a long way to go to catch the Euros in Canada.

There is large cache of European national teams with large fan bases led by England & Italy. Portugal, Germany, Croatia, France, Poland, Scotland & now Ukraine also likely have larger bases than any country in Copa America ex Canada. Messi Messi Messi maybe pulls up Argentina.

So, the England/Italy final averaged 3.6m while the Brazil/Argentina final the night before averaged 528k. Even with some on weekdays, all the Euro quarterfinal & semifinal matches also outdrew Copa's Final.

Copa América has tradition, but it's normally been every two years. So it's less exceptional. Then they're only 10 teams, you don't even have to qualify. To their credit it's quite competitive. But I think exceptionality helps the reputation of the Euros, apart from being spaced between World Cups, it gauges the state of a bigger chunk of world football in those off periods.

Then, as well argued, we don't have major immigration from S America and in the States it's relatively low as well.

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 hours ago, kacbru said:

And then there's me with my fingers and toes crossed that we squeeze out a draw in our group.

I think we are 50-50 to repeat our only World Cup experiences.

The first goal should be a point. 

The second should be a point before the last game to not be eliminated by game 3.

People forget we don't have a quality coach and as is can't compete according to our talent.

[Gian-Luca]

Highlights of matches played by our  forthcoming Copa opponents:

Peru played at home, Chile on the road, Argentina at a neutral site

[Macksam]

11 hours ago, red card said:

Copa America has a long way to go to catch the Euros in Canada.

There is large cache of European national teams with large fan bases led by England & Italy. Portugal, Germany, Croatia, France, Poland, Scotland & now Ukraine also likely have larger bases than any country in Copa America ex Canada. Messi Messi Messi maybe pulls up Argentina.

So, the England/Italy final averaged 3.6m while the Brazil/Argentina final the night before averaged 528k. Even with some on weekdays, all the Euro quarterfinal & semifinal matches also outdrew Copa's Final.

 

 

Even though he is past his prime, Messi is at peak popularity. That, and the inclusion of CONCACAF teams will bring things neck and neck this time around. To be honest, some games will draw more eyeballs than the Euros and some won't. 

[Kadenge]

6 hours ago, Obinna said:

I agree with this as well. The OS guys seemed more pessimistic than I expected. I do expect this team to get out of the group, which is something none of them (besides Wheeler I guess) were willing to say. I get the arguments of why we should expect less, but we collectively need to start expecting more, imo.

No disrespect to Peru or Chile, but these teams seem beatable to me. We should back ourselves. If we fail we fail, it happens, but let's lift the bar a bit.

Maybe everyone is ultra cautious after the World Cup exit after 2 games? If we lose to Argentina (likely) and Peru (possible), we are eliminated again, after just two games. Maybe people are drawing comparisons between the WC group stage (toughest team first, do or die in match 2)?

We had a great performance vs Belgium and a decent game vs Morocco (Borjan aside) but Canada has not looked the same since. We won vs Panama but overall didn't play well. Not up to par  vs USA. Got crushed vs Japan, blew a 3-1 lead vs Jamaica in less than 45 mins at home. Struggled vs T&T to get the win. Yes we have some high end talent but we need to improve our overall team play, especially our team defence if we want to progress in Copa. I understand the pessimism and I was one of the few who was optimistic during  WCQ.

[Sal333]

12 hours ago, red card said:

Copa America has a long way to go to catch the Euros in Canada.

There is large cache of European national teams with large fan bases led by England & Italy. Portugal, Germany, Croatia, France, Poland, Scotland & now Ukraine also likely have larger bases than any country in Copa America ex Canada. Messi Messi Messi maybe pulls up Argentina.

So, the England/Italy final averaged 3.6m while the Brazil/Argentina final the night before averaged 528k. Even with some on weekdays, all the Euro quarterfinal & semifinal matches also outdrew Copa's Final.

 

 

Actually, South Americans number over 1 million in Canada with Mexicans and Colombians leading the pack. Asians and North Africans are obviously the bulk of modern immigrants to Canada but I doubt they have the passion for soccer that matches South Americans. As for European immigrants, those have gone the way of the dodo bird.

In a few years I can see the Copa America becoming more attractive than the Euro.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

3 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

Actually, South Americans number over 1 million in Canada with Mexicans and Colombians leading the pack.

 

5 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

Asians and North Africans... but I doubt they have the passion for soccer that matches South Americans.

Let's just say from my experience with people of Moroccan and Algerian decent...agree to disagree on that statement.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Kadenge said:

We had a great performance vs Belgium and a decent game vs Morocco (Borjan aside) but Canada has not looked the same since. We won vs Panama but overall didn't play well. Not up to par  vs USA. Got crushed vs Japan, blew a 3-1 lead vs Jamaica in less than 45 mins at home. Struggled vs T&T to get the win. Yes we have some high end talent but we need to improve our overall team play, especially our team defence if we want to progress in Copa. I understand the pessimism and I was one of the few who was optimistic during  WCQ.

All very fair and having just watched those France Chile highlights @Gian-Luca posted I did reconsider my take, but I think I will keep my high expectations for this team for the reasons I stated, and emphasize that we are not favorites here, despite having a few high end players.

These teams we will face have their own high end players, even if they are less herelded or long in the tooth. Alexi Sanchez (for example) can still cause trouble, as can Eduardo Vargas (remember him from the TFC vs Tigres clashes?), even though both are near the end of their careers. That Osorio guy for Chile seems to be a real player too.

We have to be at our very best (which we haven't been) to go through in this group, but we have enough that it's possible, so we should expect our team to do what's possible, which is advance (if that makes sense). 

[Shway]

4 minutes ago, Obinna said:

All very fair and having just watched those France Chile highlights @Gian-Luca posted I did reconsider my take, but I think I will keep my high expectations for this team for the reasons I stated, and emphasize that we are not favorites here, despite having a few high end players.

These teams we will face have their own high end players, even if they are less herelded or long in the tooth. Alexi Sanchez (for example) can still cause trouble, as can Eduardo Vargas (remember him from the TFC vs Tigres clashes?), even though both are near the end of their careers. That Osorio guy for Chile seems to be a real player too.

We have to be at our very best (which we haven't been) to go through in this group, but we have enough that it's possible, so we should expect our team to do what's possible, which is advance (if that makes sense). 

Outside of game management, the Japan game was our worst showing. However less we forget, that was the first time our team was together in 5 months, and the coach had already departed. From that time, we had a massive win in Jamaica...and a massive loss in Toronto. Considering all the uncertainty, and discord within the association...I'll say it hasn't been that bad. 

Going forward, we won't be playing teams like Jamaica, Panama, or Trinidad who will be sitting and expecting to make breaks on the counter. We'll more than likely have teams who want to attack us like Japan did, and knowing this it caters to our skillset. 

I believe if Biello or whatever manager gets Canada to play the transition game again we'll surprise a lot of teams. We are not a possession-based (""Guardiola style""), which a lot of the SA teams like to play.... but more of the heavy metal "Klopp style" counter attacking football. 

Any coach we bring in, I hope tries to implement that style that suits our entire players pool albeit for maybe Osorio.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Let's just say from my experience with people of Moroccan and Algerian decent...agree to disagree on that statement.

I agree on that.  If we stick to Asia, which provides 62% of recent immigrants here, I do think the point stands.  Even the UK has trouble really attracting football interest from a lot of those communities.  At least in the numbers that it "should" based on population. 

[Gian-Luca]

Now having watched the three videos I posted, the team that seems like they would constitute our best chance of a win seems to be Peru. That said, I am loathe to draw too many conclusions from one match, but the highlights from that game against the DR had both teams looking sloppy and slow-paced and featured woeful goalkeeping at both ends (even though I have seen much better from Orlando's Gallese). I wouldn't want to base too much on one match, because sometimes you play down to the level of your opponents. The flipside is that Kansas City is unlikely to provide the same atmosphere as playing in Peru will have.

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

Now having watched the three videos I posted, the team that seems like they would constitute our best chance of a win seems to be Peru. That said, I am loathe to draw too many conclusions from one match, but the highlights from that game against the DR had both teams looking sloppy and slow-paced and featured woeful goalkeeping at both ends (even though I have seen much better from Orlando's Gallese). I wouldn't want to base too much on one match, because sometimes you play down to the level of your opponents. The flipside is that Kansas City is unlikely to provide the same atmosphere as playing in Peru will have.

You wrote what I was thinking and I hadn't even gotten through the entire highlight package from Peru DR. I saw enough in the first view minutes to draw the same conclusion that you did. Of course, it's one game and it's highlights, but Peru are last in WCQ for a reason. It's probably a good thing we have to play them in the 2nd match and not Chile. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

55 minutes ago, Shway said:

Outside of game management, the Japan game was our worst showing. However less we forget, that was the first time our team was together in 5 months, and the coach had already departed. From that time, we had a massive win in Jamaica...and a massive loss in Toronto. Considering all the uncertainty, and discord within the association...I'll say it hasn't been that bad. 

Going forward, we won't be playing teams like Jamaica, Panama, or Trinidad who will be sitting and expecting to make breaks on the counter. We'll more than likely have teams who want to attack us like Japan did, and knowing this it caters to our skillset. 

I believe if Biello or whatever manager gets Canada to play the transition game again we'll surprise a lot of teams. We are not a possession-based (""Guardiola style""), which a lot of the SA teams like to play.... but more of the heavy metal "Klopp style" counter attacking football. 

Any coach we bring in, I hope tries to implement that style that suits our entire players pool albeit for maybe Osorio.

I think we need someone to stamp an identity of some kind, starting with the back, and then provide outlets for our attacking players.  I agree we have the fitness and pace for some kind of gegenpressing.  The one that loses out in that set up is Larin. Davies maybe too, if at LB, he has most of the tools at a world class level but the instant - mid to long range passing is not his inclination. We can do it out of the current set up, but David would need to be up front for me and we need an at least all-action midfielder instead. 

3 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Highlights of matches played by our  forthcoming Copa opponents

The France Chile highlights are appreciated.  

For that limited viewing

1) Chile will still punish you if you sleep-walk through defending, which we have done once or twice. 

2) They did struggle mightily with the athleticism of Kolo Muani, who seemed up for it. We can bring some of that.

Overall, France was a bit slow, like they were with Germany. 

Edited March 27 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[SpursFlu]

I watched the Argentina Costa Rica game and my thoughts a little contradictory but. Costa Rica is a bad version or Argentina is an extremely good version of the other. With that being said I've always thought are style matches up well against Costa Rica and that could serve us well against Argentina. But it's shocking how stacked Argentina are. They had superstars coming off the bench and you're thinking oh right forgot about him. But to that point I think having Messi in the lineup will benefit us. Hot take for sure but I think they'll feel they have to play Messi until he says other wise but at this point, they could field a better starting 11 without him. Same logic with DiMaria

In other words, they may be viewing that first game as a Messi, DiMaria victory lap and considering how much talent they have, it could benefit us

Edited March 27 by SpursFlu