Canada and the 2024 Copa America

[johnyb]

4 minutes ago, eramosat said:

imho, it will be miraculous if Canada strings together an overall competitive match versus those two squads. nothing Canada has shown for quite some time indicates it will do so.  but one match at a time.

Requires heroic (e.g. perfect) effort on defense.  and extremely keen and insightful on the counter.  I don't see us managing the play very much, and that could be good as it is more in the squad's DNA than taking the offensive.  A lot of practice required  before we can learn ourselves into that approach on the Top50 stage.

 

All in all...it is excellent practice for our squad, to take the measure of themselves and what their best approach is.  players and staff hopefully learn a ton, what else is this tournament for?

Wow, I think it would be miraculous if we DON'T secure at least 1 result in these 2 matches!

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

3 minutes ago, eramosat said:

imho, it will be miraculous if Canada strings together an overall competitive match versus those two squads.

Requires heroic (e.g. perfect) effort on defense.  and extremely keen and insightful on the counter.  I don't see us managing the play very much, and that could be good as it is more in the squad's DNA than taking the offensive.  A lot of practice required  before we can learn ourselves into that approach on the Top50 stage.

Appreciate the insight 

Curious what makes you say that?  as compared to Panama, who are ranked similar, and we have got a result against in the last year. 

[eramosat]

23 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Appreciate the insight 

Curious what makes you say that?  as compared to Panama, who are ranked similar, and we have got a result against in the last year. 

In order.  Because Canada is not playing very well.  Because they have not demonstrated much cohesiveness or winning ability since first half of WC qualifying.  Because Perus and Chiles of CONMEBOL mid table are superior to the Panamas of the world.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

20 minutes ago, eramosat said:

In order.  Because Canada is not playing very well.  Because they have not demonstrated much cohesiveness or winning ability since first half of WC qualifying.  Because Perus and Chiles of CONMEBOL mid table are superior to the Panamas of the world.

We have certainly been up and down. 

Who in the Peru squad ( I know a few in the Chile one) will give us the most trouble?

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Joe MacCarthy]

5 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Styles make fights. I like our style v Peru & Chile

I am certainly more of a believer in that, than, if A>B and B>C ergo A>C

[CanadaFan123]

1 hour ago, eramosat said:

imho, it will be miraculous if Canada strings together an overall competitive match versus those two squads. nothing Canada has shown for quite some time indicates it will do so.  but one match at a time.

Requires heroic (e.g. perfect) effort on defense.  and extremely keen and insightful on the counter.  I don't see us managing the play very much, and that could be good as it is more in the squad's DNA than taking the offensive.  A lot of practice required  before we can learn ourselves into that approach on the Top50 stage.

 

All in all...it is excellent practice for our squad, to take the measure of themselves and what their best approach is.  players and staff hopefully learn a ton, what else is this tournament for?

Miraculous? lol 

We've competed with better teams and I don’t think the current versions of the Chile and Peru squads are their best. 

[costarg]

4 hours ago, Obinna said:

What do you think is in that cooler? Maple Syrup?

He's walking to Messi, so obviously MacNaughton holding Herdman's brotherhood sword.  Lukas is gonna finish him off.

[cornerkick]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Miraculous? lol 

We've competed with better teams and I don’t think the current versions of the Chile and Peru squads are their best. 

Agreed.  Peru and Chile are both in danger of missing the 2026 world cup, although Bolivia will probably give them a good run for the money in this department.  Still lots of games left in the CONMEBOL qualifiers, but Peru sit at the bottom, and Chile are 3rd.  Neither team qualified for Qatar (Peru lost in the intercontinental playoff if I recall).  It feels like Chile has an older squad and is in a transition period to a new generation.  They have Peru's previous manager, Gareca, who led Peru to qualification in 2018.

https://www.fotmob.com/leagues/10199/overview/world-cup-qualification-conmebol

Canada is more than capable of winning a game against these teams.

[Kent]

7 hours ago, Watchmen said:

I don't think I'm more excited, because the World Cup is the World Cup. But, they're playing a much more high profile side (Argentina) at the Copa than they did at the WC, and that feels like it will resonate with the casual fans.

I hope you are right about the fans, but here is my anecdotal evidence so far. The day after we beat Trinidad I spoke to 3 of my teammates on a 7-a-side soccer team about the game/Copa America.

The first person was an American (lives in Canada now). He didn't know there was a Copa America in the US this year. I don't think he knew that CONCACAF teams were in it either. Not sure if he knew there was a Copa America at all or not.

The second person was an Argentinian. He said he wasn't really interested in the Copa America because he's still riding high from the World Cup.

The third person was a Canadian. He brought it up to me, knowing I am a big fan of the national team. He said to me it was a great result yesterday which I agreed. Then he asked "So was that a friendly or did it mean something?". He had caught the highlights but didn't know it was a Copa America qualifier.

Obviously the hype machine still has time, but it's got work to do to grab the imagination of the country.

[cornerkick]

fwiw

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Macksam]

 

1 hour ago, Kent said:

Obviously the hype machine still has time, but it's got work to do to grab the imagination of the country.

I suspect hype will become really strong in the weeks building up to it, especially considering we'll be involved in the opening showpiece match, and I believe this COPA could rival the EURO in TV ratings...not a massive task considering the past two EUROs have produced awful soccer. 

With regards to the bigger picture, I think this strategic partnership between both confederations is very intriguing, a smart business decision considering CONMEBOL gains an even bigger traction into the US, utilizing the American marketing machine along the way and CONCACAF brings some serious competition to the region. Both confederations see how European footie isn't exactly great right now both financially or on the field and a power play move is being made as a result. Everyone knows about the financial struggles of clubs outside the Prem and both the Saudis and MLS are going to fight over the inevitable power vacuum that's coming soon, and the powers to be in South America want to hitch their collective horses to MLS.  

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

I hope you are right about the fans, but here is my anecdotal evidence so far. The day after we beat Trinidad I spoke to 3 of my teammates on a 7-a-side soccer team about the game/Copa America.

The first person was an American (lives in Canada now). He didn't know there was a Copa America in the US this year. I don't think he knew that CONCACAF teams were in it either. Not sure if he knew there was a Copa America at all or not.

The second person was an Argentinian. He said he wasn't really interested in the Copa America because he's still riding high from the World Cup.

The third person was a Canadian. He brought it up to me, knowing I am a big fan of the national team. He said to me it was a great result yesterday which I agreed. Then he asked "So was that a friendly or did it mean something?". He had caught the highlights but didn't know it was a Copa America qualifier.

Obviously the hype machine still has time, but it's got work to do to grab the imagination of the country.

Yup, it's definitely a tournament that's been in the shadow of the World Cup and Euro, for obvious reasons.  But also, Canada's really only had 2 previous chances at it, 1 in 2001 and maybe in 2016 (when I think it was by invitation and Canada was not chosen).  I get that it's going to take some education, but also most people are familiar with the Euro and "it's the South American equivalent to the Euro" is a pretty straight forward explanation (and I've used it a few times).  And as we've all said, being on TSN (with it's easy access and hype machine) will draw more people in.  Should be fun.

[gigi riva]

10 hours ago, Obinna said:

This is what crossed my mind last night. For me the USA are still underperforming relative to their talent level and that will continue so long as Berhalter is in charge. It feels they get lucky too often for it to be coincidence, so maybe credit to them for that, but it still feels like they are not close to their ceiling.

Mexico on the other hand just seem to be psychologically beaten by the USA at this point, and they don't seem to be clearly better than us, both on paper and based on the eye test.

Hot take but I think Panama are overrated at this point, or at least I cannot see how they can be much better than they are already. They've done a wonderful job.

Jamaica (maybe more than us) has the potential to be that no. 2 team, or at least compete with Mexico for it. That's our ceiling too imo. 

I want to see the  USA play some matches away from CONTINENTAL USA just to see how they perform 

[74 Whitecap]

One of the frustrating things about international soccer is how hard it is to judge one confederation vs another because they play so few meaningful games against each other.  So I think the Copa will be fascinating because of how many games between Concacaf and Conmebol there will be. It will be a rare chance for two confederations to really to go toe to toe in depth, not just a small handful of games that are hard to draw any conclusions from. We know Brazil and Argentina are tops, but what about the rest, should be super interesting to see how it plays out.

[Kent]

7 hours ago, Watchmen said:

But also, Canada's really only had 2 previous chances at it, 1 in 2001 and maybe in 2016 (when I think it was by invitation and Canada was not chosen).

For that 2016 tournament we had a chance to qualify, but we crashed out of the 2015 Gold Cup instead. The format is explained in here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copa_América_Centenario_qualifying_play-offs

Edited March 26 by Kent

[RS]

13 hours ago, kacbru said:

Jeez - could you fit any more stereotypes in?  Brazilian dancing, Mexican faking an injury on the ground and Canada bringing the beers!

Pulisic needs to be holding a gun.

[gigi riva]

5 hours ago, 74 Whitecap said:

One of the frustrating things about international soccer is how hard it is to judge one confederation vs another because they play so few meaningful games against each other.  So I think the Copa will be fascinating because of how many games between Concacaf and Conmebol there will be. It will be a rare chance for two confederations to really to go toe to toe in depth, not just a small handful of games that are hard to draw any conclusions from. We know Brazil and Argentina are tops, but what about the rest, should be super interesting to see how it plays out.

I agree I want to see how Canada performs vs top South American nations

[Bigandy]

15 hours ago, nolando said:

I dunno, selling him a bit short. Did he not advertise a rocket of a shot over the past couple of weeks? One, unlike many of his compatriots, that actually finds the back of the net?

Thats true but if I had to pick the attributes of CAM for the national team, a rocket of a shot is nice to have but not a must have. If we put him cam because he has a good shot, then we are going to create way less chances for our other attackers who are better finishers. At wing or even striker, shaf can get into positions more frequently to unleash his shot. At Cam he will have to be smart enough to receive the ball in pockets of space, find time to turn and then shoot through a back 4 plus 2 cm's. 

I dont think im selling him short. Hes great. I wouldnt want staq at CB just because hes a great tackler. I think theres a reason he plays on the wing and not as a CAM. square hole, round peg sort of deal. 

[Obinna]

7 hours ago, 74 Whitecap said:

One of the frustrating things about international soccer is how hard it is to judge one confederation vs another because they play so few meaningful games against each other.  So I think the Copa will be fascinating because of how many games between Concacaf and Conmebol there will be. It will be a rare chance for two confederations to really to go toe to toe in depth, not just a small handful of games that are hard to draw any conclusions from. We know Brazil and Argentina are tops, but what about the rest, should be super interesting to see how it plays out.

On that note, we couldn't have had a better 6 come out of CONCACAF to compete against CONMEBOL. Everyone that should be there, will be there. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

30 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Thats true but if I had to pick the attributes of CAM for the national team, a rocket of a shot is nice to have but not a must have. If we put him cam because he has a good shot, then we are going to create way less chances for our other attackers who are better finishers. At wing or even striker, shaf can get into positions more frequently to unleash his shot. At Cam he will have to be smart enough to receive the ball in pockets of space, find time to turn and then shoot through a back 4 plus 2 cm's. 

I dont think im selling him short. Hes great. I wouldnt want staq at CB just because hes a great tackler. I think theres a reason he plays on the wing and not as a CAM. square hole, round peg sort of deal. 

Close control or at least some ability to make space instantly is a must for me at that position.  Then it comes down to smart close range passing and then a technical precise, and sometimes big, shot.  

Shaffelburg has the attributes of a scoring winger, I would let him develop other skills for that position, crossing, defensive nous etc. instead of placing him somewhere where he will have to learn a lot more. 

 

I would also say to use a CAM and wingers and a striker, you need a couple of super athletic midfielders or ask both of them to sit and defend.  Against decent opposition at least.  Not sure we are there.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

9 minutes ago, Obinna said:

On that note, we couldn't have had a better 6 come out of CONCACAF to compete against CONMEBOL. Everyone that should be there, will be there. 

It will be great to see. 

The non-big 2 teams from CONMEBOL haven't done amazing the last couple World Cups - a total of 2 getting past the group stage and then no further.   

It would be really nice if we pull ourselves together and show how far CONCACAF has come. 

Edited March 26 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Ruud]

10 hours ago, gigi riva said:

I want to see the  USA play some matches away from CONTINENTAL USA just to see how they perform 

Wasn’t that game in Texas an away match?

[Ruud]

40 minutes ago, Obinna said:

On that note, we couldn't have had a better 6 come out of CONCACAF to compete against CONMEBOL. Everyone that should be there, will be there. 

Canada gets to quarter finals and I’m hoping US gets to the finals - they are a great team to be absolutely honest home advantage or not.  Mexico should also do well with home support 

I think Brazil is going to make a statement