2019 Canadian Premier League Attendance

[Bison44]

So why is it CPL attendance numbers have to have the appropriate "full stadium" pictures and are met with all sorts of snide comments about comps, no shows and ticket sales etc..yet the USL USL-pro numbers are just taken as is.  Where is the same scrutiny and skeptisism with those leagues numbers?  

[narduch]

21 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

So why is it CPL attendance numbers have to have the appropriate "full stadium" pictures and are met with all sorts of snide comments about comps, no shows and ticket sales etc..yet the USL USL-pro numbers are just taken as is.  Where is the same scrutiny and skeptisism with those leagues numbers?  

What about the MLS clubs as well? This guys is infatuated with CPL attendance. Mostly because he has an agenda he is pushing. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

56 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

So why is it CPL attendance numbers have to have the appropriate "full stadium" pictures and are met with all sorts of snide comments about comps, no shows and ticket sales etc..yet the USL USL-pro numbers are just taken as is.  Where is the same scrutiny and skeptisism with those leagues numbers?  

^^^This appears to be in response to a post that contained the following:

On 7/23/2019 at 11:26 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

...When you look at the comparable USL numbers and compare with CanPL the one thing that should jump out of the page is just how spectacular the crowds in Halifax have been when market size is taken into consideration.

Beyond that the obvious reason not to do what is being described is that it would be off topic. I have repeatedly pointed out that tickets distributed numbers are the norm in North American pro soccer leagues and that comp tickets are often used in that context to inflate attendance numbers. The example I normally cite is what happened with Rayo Oklahoma in the NASL where from memory announced numbers of around 4500 turned out to be 1500 or so paid when the local school board revealed (who had to be paid a fixed fee per ticket) released information into the public domain on how much money they were actually making off the stadium rental. Bear that sort of thing in mind when FC Edmonton are ridiculed for low crowds as they frequently were back then as well as now. The apparent strugglers on attendance might not be as far off the pace as you think when it comes to paid attendance and ticket revenue.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[grasshopper1917]

46 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

So why is it CPL attendance numbers have to have the appropriate "full stadium" pictures and are met with all sorts of snide comments about comps, no shows and ticket sales etc..yet the USL USL-pro numbers are just taken as is.  Where is the same scrutiny and skeptisism with those leagues numbers?  

I think the reality is very few on here really follow USL or care about it in any way. Most of us don't see it or care about it enough to scrutinize any numbers.

 

[Reign]

9 hours ago, SoccMan said:

I still think it’s a bad look when you watch a Forge game or a Valour game or even an Ottawa Fury game even though they are not in the CPL , and see these teams playing out of these massive stadiums with all those empty seats. It doesn’t do justice to these teams that are actually getting good attendances but you would never know it because all your seeing is all those empty seats. However, you watch a Pacific game or a Cavalry game and even though they are getting less people than Forge and Valour it just looks so much better and more engaging to watch because you see stadiums that look so much more full than overwhelmingly empty like Forge and Valour,  6000 people in a 25000 to 30000 seat stadium are basically lost and engulfed by the mountains of empty seats . I really wish every team in this league had smaller stadiums like Pacific,  Cavalry and Halifax have. Maybe one day most teams will need the bigger stadiums but until that day the smaller stadiums should be the norm right across this league.

Yeah it sucks. However I don’t see the CFL Ownership teams moving into smaller stadiums any time soon. This was a easy way to get more use out of their multi million dollar stadiums. Which is a shame, Valour fans would kill it in a smaller stadium. The Kansas City mls stadium is my dream style for CPL teams in the future. 18K soccer specific, obviously this is years down the road. 

[SoccMan]

2 hours ago, Reign said:

Yeah it sucks. However I don’t see the CFL Ownership teams moving into smaller stadiums any time soon. This was a easy way to get more use out of their multi million dollar stadiums. Which is a shame, Valour fans would kill it in a smaller stadium. The Kansas City mls stadium is my dream style for CPL teams in the future. 18K soccer specific, obviously this is years down the road. 

I know unfortunately understand the two teams playing playing in the CFL stadiums and having to fill dates in those stadiums. But like in the early years of the MLS just hated watching games on TV of these teams playing in those massive NFL stadiums and seeing all those empty seats. Go watch a New England Revolution game and even 15 to 18000 in that massive stadium looks horrible.

[Bison44]

You guys are focusing on the look on TV.  I have been to Valour games and I thought the experience was great.  The noise from the trench  fills the stadium as it is.  And as average crowds hopefully grow by a couple 1000 more, they'll open up the other side of the stadium.  You cant have it both ways, our advantage was that we had a modern stadium already in place, and owners that are invested in seeing the stadium being used and full of fans.  Parking, bathrooms, concessions, TV set up etc were all in place from day one, that solved a lot of the teething problems that the other teams are having. Every team has its own problems, but the big modern stadium also has lots of positives too.  

[CDNFootballer]

USL has for years had teams with inflated announced numbers compared to number of actual butts in the seats, I posted in the last month or so pics of the Ottawa Fury having what seemed like a few hundred in the stands and announcing a few thousand, and one of OKC Energy in a similar situation.

 

 

[Cheeta]

^ ^ Echo that.  I'm not sure a lot of regulars at the Valour matches would swap IG Field for someplace like Clarke just to have a cozier venue.  Not if it means giving up a modern grandstand, roof, and all the other trimings, even if we are only using a fraction of the stadium.  And in the portion that is open things are fairly full to capacity, which goes a long ways in keeping it feeling like you are at an event despite the size.  

I'm damned sure almost none of the casuals would swap IGF for a venue like Clarke.  Not to pick on Clarke Stadium.  It's just that it's a long way from what spoiled footie fans expect. 

Would give my right arm to have an LRT station a 3 minutes walk from IGF though.  Supposedly one day. Would be great if my grand kids could take me on the LRT when Winnipeg North End visits Valour in the league derby.

[Gopherbashi]

17 hours ago, narduch said:

What about the MLS clubs as well? This guys is infatuated with CPL attendance. Mostly because he has an agenda he is pushing. 

Whole lot of empty seats in Vancouver tonight for 16,000.

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Whole lot of empty seats in Vancouver tonight for 16,000.

Can you show me some screen shots? (Don't really)

[Bison44]

Were all the tickets full price? Or were there any family discount type sales?  

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Were all the tickets full price? Or were there any family discount type sales?  

My guess is they were included in season ticket packages

[Gopherbashi]

13 minutes ago, narduch said:

Can you show me some screen shots? (Don't really)

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Should be encouraging for the future of the Canadian Championship competition as the top domestic competition that the announced numbers in Montreal and Vancouver were 14723 and 16089:

https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2019/07/25/canada/canadian-championship/montreal-impacts/york-9/2984617/

https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2019/07/25/canada/canadian-championship/vancouver-whitecaps-fc/cavalry/2984616/

I don't think the MLS teams normally provide this one to their supporters in the season ticket package?

Pathetic that some narrow-minded individuals on here are projecting their CanPL vs MLS obsessions onto other people when the silent majority in Canadian soccer will want both leagues to thrive and the normal healthy response to these games should be that this competition is a tremendous opportunity to grow interest in domestic Canadian pro soccer in the years ahead. Both CanPL and MLS can benefit through that because all the boats in the water rise with the tide.

Fingers crossed for 5000+ in Saskatoon so we can continue to see fully pro soccer spreading into more Canadian cities from coast to coast and its great to see the Whitecaps doing their bit to support that. You make more progress when you work together for the greater good rather than dividing into bitterly opposed factions with a crabs in a barrel mentality.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[narduch]

Poor Ozzie suffering from persecution complex. 

I can't speak for Impact or Whitecaps but for TFC the first round of the Voyageurs Cup is included in the season ticket package. 

[CanSuffer]

Wheeler said on the broadcast last night that there were about 100 travelling supporters from Calgary in BC Place. That to me is amazing. Even if it's actually 50 or 25 I'm impressed. With the winning result and that kind of hard core fan support, the by-all-accounts amazing atmosphere at ATCO field, and the winning form, I'm feeling good about the future attendance levels for Cavalry.

[Cheeta]

Just going to add that Valour has adjusted their top priced seating downwards as well.  See if it helps any with sales in those sections.  Still cost you $50 per.

[ted]

8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Pathetic that some narrow-minded individuals on here are projecting their CanPL vs MLS obsessions onto other people when the silent majority in Canadian soccer will want both leagues to thrive...

🤣

This "silent majority" crap is a favorite tool of white-supremacists, dictators and members of the US Republican Party. Not a particularly effective argument. 

I have not met a single person in the local soccer community that gives a shit about the success of MLS. They may want the Whitecaps to be successful, but now that we have our own pro team, that is less of a concern. Casual fans (the closest thing you can get to an actual, "silent majority") don't understand why the Whitecaps aren't playing in the CanPL, or if they are aware, think they should move.

 

[Bison44]

I wonder if this will be a turning point for Calgary, and maybe the whole league.  A tipping point that pushes some of the MLS and Eurosnobs over to trying our local product.  Us, the rabid fans have already seen that the quality is good, the experience is fun and if the league has problems at least they are our problems, not ones  creates by americans for the benifit of american soccer players/owners. 

Maybe this will wake up some people at sportsnet, TSN and CBC, and they will grow some balls and support the CDN league.  Start a nice CPL soccer saturday tradition (not just a few sporadic games on CBC).  And I think that it might be the first time TSN actually had CPL highlights, they still refuse to put the CPL on their soccer tool bar on website.  You know cause there is such a nice feeling of cooperation between MLS/TSN and the rest of canada.  Although I hear even Binky/Robert is going to try a Pacific game now.  There is hope!!  

[narduch]

5 minutes ago, ted said:

🤣

This "silent majority" crap is a favorite tool of white-supremacists, dictators and members of the US Republican Party. Not a particularly effective argument. 

 

Another tactic they use is to play the victim, which he does all the time

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

42 minutes ago, ted said:

🤣

This "silent majority" crap is a favorite tool of white-supremacists, dictators and members of the US Republican Party. Not a particularly effective argument. 

I have not met a single person in the local soccer community that gives a **** about the success of MLS. They may want the Whitecaps to be successful, but now that we have our own pro team, that is less of a concern. Casual fans (the closest thing you can get to an actual, "silent majority") don't understand why the Whitecaps aren't playing in the CanPL, or if they are aware, think they should move.

Have fun with your narrow crabs in a barrel mentality then. I'll hope all of Canadian pro soccer does well in the years ahead and make no apology for doing so.

[T_Bison]

17 hours ago, Cheeta said:

^ ^ Echo that.  I'm not sure a lot of regulars at the Valour matches would swap IG Field for someplace like Clarke just to have a cozier venue.  Not if it means giving up a modern grandstand, roof, and all the other trimings, even if we are only using a fraction of the stadium.  And in the portion that is open things are fairly full to capacity, which goes a long ways in keeping it feeling like you are at an event despite the size.  

I'm damned sure almost none of the casuals would swap IGF for a venue like Clarke.  Not to pick on Clarke Stadium.  It's just that it's a long way from what spoiled footie fans expect. 

Would give my right arm to have an LRT station a 3 minutes walk from IGF though.  Supposedly one day. Would be great if my grand kids could take me on the LRT when Winnipeg North End visits Valour in the league derby.

1) 100% agree about IGF vs others. The gameday experience rocks. If it was the old Winnipeg Stadium I would be more willing to have the discussion but IGF is *REALLY* good.

2) Once Phase II of the Rapid Transit goes through I will have a LRT station three minute walk from my house. Fort Garry FTW!

[CanSuffer]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

Maybe this will wake up some people at sportsnet, TSN and CBC, and they will grow some balls and support the CDN league.  Start a nice CPL soccer saturday tradition (not just a few sporadic games on CBC).  And I think that it might be the first time TSN actually had CPL highlights, they still refuse to put the CPL on their soccer tool bar on website.  You know cause there is such a nice feeling of cooperation between MLS/TSN and the rest of canada.  Although I hear even Binky/Robert is going to try a Pacific game now.  There is hope!!  

I'm not holding my breath. The CPL will succeed despite TSN, MLS, MLSE, Sportsnet, and CBC. I'll give credit to Sportsnet when they had John Molinaro, but now he's been let go. And I'll give credit to the CBC for televising/streaming 20 games. That's helpful for sure. But beyond that there's precious little. Considering their mandate for Canadian content and to promote all things Canadian it's disappointing for me.

Given they are competing in the same marketplace it's no surprise whatsoever the snubbing of the CPL by TSN/MLS/MLSE. Beyond what they can't avoid (thanks to the CanChamp) there's nothing. It's interesting that some of TSN's on air personalities : Gareth Wheeler, Terry Dunfield, Nigel Reid support the CPL by giving commentary etc on OneSoccer. Credit to them.

The CanChamp is so important to the CPL. It's where the market of new CPL sports fans will gain their awareness of the league. Other than the grassroots work of building a fanbase in each of the local cities which is coming along gradually but is more long term.

 

 

 

[ted]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I'll hope all of Canadian pro soccer does well in the years ahead and make no apology for doing so.

Great, you do that. So will the rest of us. The only difference is, most of us don't care if MLS lives or dies, and that includes a good chunk (if not a majority) of Whitecaps, Impact, and TFC fans who would be happy to see these teams jump to CanPL.

If you feel the need to support an American league, you go right ahead, I like watching the EPL, I know people who are excited LMX is coming to OneSoccer.  Your point was that in the minds of your imaginary , "silent majority", somehow it is better for the Whitecaps (et al) to remain in MLS. This is simply not true.