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CDNFootballer

2019 Canadian Premier League Attendance

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5 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

Inferring that Forge is "papering the house" is simply inaccurate unless you have data to back up that.

Most pro teams give away a certain amount of free tickets for games other league's as well like MLS, USL, etc.

 

On 8/5/2019 at 2:50 PM, Shortdutchcanuck said:

Free tickets were offered to all City of Hamilton employees.  Not sure what % of crowd they made up but hopefully some had a great time at an entertaining game and come back.  

I mean, you're right that a certain amount of free tickets are given away for free in other leagues as well.  It's also a criticism I've seen leveled at other leagues.  Though at this point, I don't think this forum needs another round of "paid vs in attendance vs tickets distributed" debates.  Just put out a good product and people will pay for it.

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5 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

Inferring that Forge is "papering the house" is simply inaccurate unless you have data to back up that.

Most pro teams give away a certain amount of free tickets for games other league's as well like MLS, USL, etc.

This.  It was one game in an unknown competition that they just qualified for less than 2 months ago.  Still a very solid crowd all things considered.

Aside from the first game and the CL game the attendance would seem to be all paid - and very, very solid.  Forge has been a success, so far.

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On 8/6/2019 at 4:42 PM, CDNFootballer said:

 

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17,611 - League Average April 27th, 2019

5,442 - League Average May 26th, 2019

4,569 - League Average August 5th, 2019

?,??? - League Average October 19th, 2019

By the end of the season will the League Average be over/under 4,000?

Edited by Binky

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1 hour ago, Binky said:

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17,611 - League Average April 27th, 2019

5,442 - League Average May 26th, 2019

4,569 - League Average August 5th, 2019

?,??? - League Average October 19th, 2019

By the end of the season will the League Average be over/under 4,000?

I would say it will settle in a shade over 4000. Early number were always inflated by the huge opening day crowd for the free game in Hamilton. I see no reason to think Winnipeg, Hamilton and Halifax should draw 5000-6000+ for the rest of the season. On the flip side Edmonton, Pacific and York are likely to continue to struggle.

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Nice to see that HFX and Cavalry have had their biggest single game attendance since that Week 5 graphic.

As for whether the league will average more or less than 4k, I'd be curious to see what the average is with home openers removed. Bonus points for a trendline over time without the home openers, so we can see if attendance is falling or not.

Ooh, actually the graph I'd really like to see is the total attendance for every team combined, for each home game. So the Y axis would be total attendance, and the X axis would have Home game 1, home game 2, etc. It's hard to explain, but adding everyone's first home game attendance would be one data point. Then the next data point would be total attendance for all the 2nd home games.

But as long as all the numbers are scattered in a 34 page thread, I'm not going to be compiling this.

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1 hour ago, Kent said:

As for whether the league will average more or less than 4k, I'd be curious to see what the average is with home openers removed. Bonus points for a trendline over time without the home openers, so we can see if attendance is falling or not.

2019 CPL HOME OPENERS:

17,611  ~  27-04-2019  ~  Forge FC (vs York9 FC)

05,154  ~  28-04-2019  ~  Pacific FC (vs HFX Wanderers FC)

06,113  ~  04-05-2019  ~  HFX Wanderers FC (vs Forge FC)

03,486  ~  04-05-2019  ~  Calvary FC (vs York9 FC)

10,156  ~  04-05-2019  ~  Valour FC (vs FC Edmonton)

04,238  ~  12-05-2019  ~  FC Edmonton (vs Pacific FC)

04,260  ~  25-05-2019  ~  York9 FC (vs Forge FC)

51,018  Total Attendance 7 Home Openers

I'm sure that you can do the math.

 

Edited by Binky

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Just in case:

242.177  -  Current 2019 CPL total attendance

051,018  -  2019 CPL 7 home openers

191,159  -  Current 2019 CPL total attendance after deducting the 7 home openers

004,156  -  Current 2019 CPL average attendance after deducting 7 matches from the 53 total matches played thus far.

Again, by the end of the season will the League Average be over/under 4,000?

 

Edited by Binky

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I'm going to go with over, but it'll be close. I think Forge, HFX, and Valour should all be well above 4k average the rest of the way, but I guess if Valour continues to do poorly they could see a drop off. Cavarly's top attendance and average attendance have both gone up over the last 10 weeks, so I'm hoping that means their strong results and spotlight in the Voyageurs Cup is giving them a boost. Pacific, without actually dissecting the numbers I feel like they have been relatively steady, so I'm hoping that continues. Edmonton I hope they can hold steady, even if their numbers are low, I assume it is mostly made up of people that have been with them for the long haul from the NASL days. York 9 we shall see. They could go lower yet, but their games have been more entertaining recently. We'll see if that makes a difference or not.

But the fact that the league has averaged over 4k without the home openers gives me hope that the league can average over 4k for the whole season.

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Interesting blog article on CanPL attendance this year, strikes a nice balance well in between doom and gloom and over the top optimism: 


http://www.kenn.com/the_blog/?p=10541

Notes that Edmonton's attendance this year is slightly lower than their last year in NASL (expenses likely lower too).  I really had expected the cities of Calgary and Edmonton to embrace their rivalry more from an attendance standpoint but maybe that will grow over time.  Especially if they end up in a home and home in the finals.  I still  think Forge sill spoil that scenario but an all-Alberta final would be pretty wild and probably a big boost for attendance in both cities going forward.

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Won't provide pictures to prove the obvious where York 9 having 2438 is concerned:

giphy.gif

but thought the 3745 number also looked a bit high based on what we could see on Onesoccer.

Even if crowds are not what they might be in Edmonton (my recollection of watching NASL clips is that the big blue seating was usually sparsely filled in a similar sort of way) it's great to see that they can use local players to the extent they are doing and get the job done on the field of play. That's a big difference from the Brickmen era when the Edmonton entry was usually well off the pace. After the team has folded once, it's probably difficult for some people to become emotionally invested again. Probably would have been better if there hadn't been the whole rally to save the team saga, but we'll probably never get the full story over what was happening between CanPL and Tom Fath at the time.

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Funny how the title is attendance dropping, but when he quotes the league monthy averages they were but so far Aug (limited numbers) is up sharply (4626) and this last slate of 3 games averaged 4129 which continues the rebound trend.  And I do agree with Lofty, having 7-8 data points and lumping the first 4 (which includes opening day) against the last 4 its not surprising there is a drop off.    And maybe the rebound has something to do with Forge/Calgary's exploits lately outside the league, making people sit up and take notice.  

I think its more than just "fairly successful", in the first year with no history, no identity within the community and trying to establish a foothold we are averaging over 4000 across the league.  Usl champ is averaging roughly the same, and using it as a standard, USL attendance was down 9% last week from its average.  Summertime, go figure....

https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2019-usl-championship-attendance/

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The CPL attendance numbers are not insignificant. If they were, people here wouldn't be writing 35 pages worth of posts talking about it. Reality hits quick and hard in the business world. Everyone who cares about this league, deep down in their gut knows that an average of 4,000 per game isn't going to cut it. Not for long, in any case. With 4 out of seven clubs hitting below that average, it's only a matter of time before the first one will fold. A 4,000 per match attendance also doesn't attract much interest in anyone else wanting to join the CPL party.

Thus, there are at least 4 CPL ownership groups that badly over-estimated the public's interest in their product. Take for instance the Pacific FC ownership group of Josh Simpson, Rob Friend, and Dean Shillington. This is what Josh had to say in a Times-Colonist article that was published on June 1, 2019:

Simpson said Victoria has a great soccer history and is known nationally as one of the hotbeds for the sport.

"We are looking at the kind of attendance - 5,000 to 6,000 fans per game - that Victoria is currently not used to for soccer," said Simpson. "We see this team representing the Island and drawing from Sidney to Nanaimo."

The top current Island soccer team, the Victoria Highlanders of the amateur Premier Development League, draws only a few hundred fans to its games at Centennial Stadium.

The best-drawing Island sports team is the Victoria Royals of the Western Hockey League, who averaged 5,307 fans per game last season at Save-on-Foods Memorial Centre.

Well yes, Pacific FC has hit the low-end of his figure once, at the season opener, but since then the club has averaged only 50% of Simpson's projected target. Now it doesn't take a Fortune-500 CEO, or a genius like Ted, to figure out that Simpson should have stuck to playing for a club, rather than trying his hand at owning one, cause the people from Nanaimo and Sidney just ain't lining up to buy tickets to watch Pacific FC.

I TOLD YOU SO!!!

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The main owner is called Dean Shillington and he clearly got the low cap that he publicly stated he wanted last summer. With the Mediapro deal also in place now it's not clear that 5000 is needed to break even and that having 3000 or so instead is the huge financial calamity it could have been with a high salary cap. The planned investment on a $5 million training facility suggests it probably isn't.

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2 hours ago, Binky said:

The CPL attendance numbers are not insignificant. If they were, people here wouldn't be writing 35 pages worth of posts talking about it. Reality hits quick and hard in the business world. Everyone who cares about this league, deep down in their gut knows that an average of 4,000 per game isn't going to cut it. Not for long, in any case. With 4 out of seven clubs hitting below that average, it's only a matter of time before the first one will fold. A 4,000 per match attendance also doesn't attract much interest in anyone else wanting to join the CPL party.

Thus, there are at least 4 CPL ownership groups that badly over-estimated the public's interest in their product. Take for instance the Pacific FC ownership group of Josh Simpson, Rob Friend, and Dean Shillington. This is what Josh had to say in a Times-Colonist article that was published on June 1, 2019:

Simpson said Victoria has a great soccer history and is known nationally as one of the hotbeds for the sport.

"We are looking at the kind of attendance - 5,000 to 6,000 fans per game - that Victoria is currently not used to for soccer," said Simpson. "We see this team representing the Island and drawing from Sidney to Nanaimo."

The top current Island soccer team, the Victoria Highlanders of the amateur Premier Development League, draws only a few hundred fans to its games at Centennial Stadium.

The best-drawing Island sports team is the Victoria Royals of the Western Hockey League, who averaged 5,307 fans per game last season at Save-on-Foods Memorial Centre.

Well yes, Pacific FC has hit the low-end of his figure once, at the season opener, but since then the club has averaged only 50% of Simpson's projected target. Now it doesn't take a Fortune-500 CEO, or a genius like Ted, to figure out that Simpson should have stuck to playing for a club, rather than trying his hand at owning one, cause the people from Nanaimo and Sidney just ain't lining up to buy tickets to watch Pacific FC.

I TOLD YOU SO!!!

You are aware that the projected attendance refers to a future scenario where the stadium is finished and it can fit that many, do you not?

Or do you just like to boast about predicting something based on falsifying the facts to support your childishness?

Are you honestly suggesting that Simpson was predicting crowds of more than the stadium could hold at the time of the statement? 

CPL attendance has to be way better, but not the point of imagining non-existent seats, rows and sections for the sake of saying I TOLD YOU SO, and screaming in bold no less.

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9 hours ago, Binky said:

The CPL attendance numbers are not insignificant. If they were, people here wouldn't be writing 35 pages worth of posts talking about it. Reality hits quick and hard in the business world. Everyone who cares about this league, deep down in their gut knows that an average of 4,000 per game isn't going to cut it. Not for long, in any case. With 4 out of seven clubs hitting below that average, it's only a matter of time before the first one will fold. A 4,000 per match attendance also doesn't attract much interest in anyone else wanting to join the CPL party.

Thus, there are at least 4 CPL ownership groups that badly over-estimated the public's interest in their product. Take for instance the Pacific FC ownership group of Josh Simpson, Rob Friend, and Dean Shillington. This is what Josh had to say in a Times-Colonist article that was published on June 1, 2019:

Simpson said Victoria has a great soccer history and is known nationally as one of the hotbeds for the sport.

"We are looking at the kind of attendance - 5,000 to 6,000 fans per game - that Victoria is currently not used to for soccer," said Simpson. "We see this team representing the Island and drawing from Sidney to Nanaimo."

The top current Island soccer team, the Victoria Highlanders of the amateur Premier Development League, draws only a few hundred fans to its games at Centennial Stadium.

The best-drawing Island sports team is the Victoria Royals of the Western Hockey League, who averaged 5,307 fans per game last season at Save-on-Foods Memorial Centre.

Well yes, Pacific FC has hit the low-end of his figure once, at the season opener, but since then the club has averaged only 50% of Simpson's projected target. Now it doesn't take a Fortune-500 CEO, or a genius like Ted, to figure out that Simpson should have stuck to playing for a club, rather than trying his hand at owning one, cause the people from Nanaimo and Sidney just ain't lining up to buy tickets to watch Pacific FC.

I TOLD YOU SO!!!

You're cheering for the league to fail so you can go back to posting about how no one is trying to improve Canadian soccer. Seriously, think about that before typing another one of your idiotic rants.

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