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CDNFootballer

2019 Canadian Premier League Attendance

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@DoyleG

Yes, I agree, don't respond to the troll.

As for what can help attendance numbers next year, I think more evening games when the sun is down would help, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights.

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2 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

All in all I agree it has been fairly decent. York I think is a cause for concern. Edmonton and Pacific also have some serious work to do.as well. I think Calgary will be fine as long as they bring ticket prices WAY down next year. Winnipeg, Hamilton and Halifax all have strong season ticket bases and solid numbers.

Didn't York also make a pig's ear of their pricing? I'm hoping their numbers will improve significantly once they sort that out.

Westhills is a fabulous little football stadium. I'm watching Valour at cavernous IGF and I'd swap it for Weshills in a NY second. They absolutely MUST find a way to make it work.

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1 hour ago, Macksam said:

@DoyleG

Yes, I agree, don't respond to the troll.

As for what can help attendance numbers next year, I think more evening games when the sun is down would help, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights.

I agree, evening games are the best.  Loved watching the evening games at Swangard in the old Whitecaps/86ers days, wasn't so fond of their few early day games...and hate their 4pm kickoff times they have now.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

All in all I agree it has been fairly decent. York I think is a cause for concern. Edmonton and Pacific also have some serious work to do.as well...

They went with a sensible low salary cap that appears to be more comparable to USL 1 setups than what was being talked about at one point when something higher than the NASL was being rumoured and appear to have managed to get Mediapro to pick up the tab for webstream production costs, so hopefully the stronger independently owned 6000-8000 USL Championship sort of numbers that were said to be needed on crowds are no longer applicable and none of the investors were expecting to be in 10,000+ Sacramento, Indy 11 and New Mexico territory on attendance any time soon:

 When you look at the comparable USL numbers and compare with CanPL the one thing that should jump out of the page is just how spectacular the crowds in Halifax have been when market size is taken into consideration.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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20 hours ago, CDNFootballer said:

 

If we work out the averages excluding the first match, which I think we can all agree had a curiosity boost, I think we get a better picture of the core support.

The top 3 then look like this:

1. Forge (7): 6,015

2. HFX (6): 5,970

3. Valour (4): 5,823

It is a close race for first place!

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21 hours ago, grasshopper1917 said:

All in all I agree it has been fairly decent. York I think is a cause for concern. Edmonton and Pacific also have some serious work to do.as well. 

Fair enough, but it should be noted we are filling the same percentage of our stadium (roughly) as the top attended teams in the league. ;)

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, ted said:

Fair enough, but it should be noted we are filling the same percentage of our stadium (roughly) as the top attended teams in the league. ;)

Just checking the number for Valour's last home match (I had to go back a way!) I find that somebody at CPL HQ thinks that 6,678/33,134 = 95% !!

Just because you don't open some sections doesn't mean they aren't there!

Valour's actual percentage of capacity is around 20%.

Edited by Lofty

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2 hours ago, Lofty said:

Just checking the number for Valour's last home match (I had to go back a way!) I find that somebody at CPL HQ thinks that 6,678/33,134 = 95% !!

Just because you don't open some sections doesn't mean they aren't there!

Valour's actual percentage of capacity is around 20%.

Yeah, I hate that. It's not just CPL, teams like Seattle and Vancouver do the same thing. I think the logic goes something like "We have a 40k seat stadium but it's inconceivable we could sell more than 20k, so we'll only even try to sell 20k, which makes it a 20k stadium, unless we sell all the tickets soon enough, then we'll open up more of the stadium." Like, at that point you might as well say stupid things like "We sold 100% of the tickets sold".

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I still think it’s a bad look when you watch a Forge game or a Valour game or even an Ottawa Fury game even though they are not in the CPL , and see these teams playing out of these massive stadiums with all those empty seats. It doesn’t do justice to these teams that are actually getting good attendances but you would never know it because all your seeing is all those empty seats. However, you watch a Pacific game or a Cavalry game and even though they are getting less people than Forge and Valour it just looks so much better and more engaging to watch because you see stadiums that look so much more full than overwhelmingly empty like Forge and Valour,  6000 people in a 25000 to 30000 seat stadium are basically lost and engulfed by the mountains of empty seats . I really wish every team in this league had smaller stadiums like Pacific,  Cavalry and Halifax have. Maybe one day most teams will need the bigger stadiums but until that day the smaller stadiums should be the norm right across this league.

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So why is it CPL attendance numbers have to have the appropriate "full stadium" pictures and are met with all sorts of snide comments about comps, no shows and ticket sales etc..yet the USL USL-pro numbers are just taken as is.  Where is the same scrutiny and skeptisism with those leagues numbers?  

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21 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

So why is it CPL attendance numbers have to have the appropriate "full stadium" pictures and are met with all sorts of snide comments about comps, no shows and ticket sales etc..yet the USL USL-pro numbers are just taken as is.  Where is the same scrutiny and skeptisism with those leagues numbers?  

What about the MLS clubs as well? This guys is infatuated with CPL attendance. Mostly because he has an agenda he is pushing. 

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

So why is it CPL attendance numbers have to have the appropriate "full stadium" pictures and are met with all sorts of snide comments about comps, no shows and ticket sales etc..yet the USL USL-pro numbers are just taken as is.  Where is the same scrutiny and skeptisism with those leagues numbers?  

^^^This appears to be in response to a post that contained the following:

On 7/23/2019 at 11:26 AM, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

...When you look at the comparable USL numbers and compare with CanPL the one thing that should jump out of the page is just how spectacular the crowds in Halifax have been when market size is taken into consideration.

Beyond that the obvious reason not to do what is being described is that it would be off topic. I have repeatedly pointed out that tickets distributed numbers are the norm in North American pro soccer leagues and that comp tickets are often used in that context to inflate attendance numbers. The example I normally cite is what happened with Rayo Oklahoma in the NASL where from memory announced numbers of around 4500 turned out to be 1500 or so paid when the local school board revealed (who had to be paid a fixed fee per ticket) released information into the public domain on how much money they were actually making off the stadium rental. Bear that sort of thing in mind when FC Edmonton are ridiculed for low crowds as they frequently were back then as well as now. The apparent strugglers on attendance might not be as far off the pace as you think when it comes to paid attendance and ticket revenue.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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46 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

So why is it CPL attendance numbers have to have the appropriate "full stadium" pictures and are met with all sorts of snide comments about comps, no shows and ticket sales etc..yet the USL USL-pro numbers are just taken as is.  Where is the same scrutiny and skeptisism with those leagues numbers?  

I think the reality is very few on here really follow USL or care about it in any way. Most of us don't see it or care about it enough to scrutinize any numbers.

 

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9 hours ago, SoccMan said:

I still think it’s a bad look when you watch a Forge game or a Valour game or even an Ottawa Fury game even though they are not in the CPL , and see these teams playing out of these massive stadiums with all those empty seats. It doesn’t do justice to these teams that are actually getting good attendances but you would never know it because all your seeing is all those empty seats. However, you watch a Pacific game or a Cavalry game and even though they are getting less people than Forge and Valour it just looks so much better and more engaging to watch because you see stadiums that look so much more full than overwhelmingly empty like Forge and Valour,  6000 people in a 25000 to 30000 seat stadium are basically lost and engulfed by the mountains of empty seats . I really wish every team in this league had smaller stadiums like Pacific,  Cavalry and Halifax have. Maybe one day most teams will need the bigger stadiums but until that day the smaller stadiums should be the norm right across this league.

Yeah it sucks. However I don’t see the CFL Ownership teams moving into smaller stadiums any time soon. This was a easy way to get more use out of their multi million dollar stadiums. Which is a shame, Valour fans would kill it in a smaller stadium. The Kansas City mls stadium is my dream style for CPL teams in the future. 18K soccer specific, obviously this is years down the road. 

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2 hours ago, Reign said:

Yeah it sucks. However I don’t see the CFL Ownership teams moving into smaller stadiums any time soon. This was a easy way to get more use out of their multi million dollar stadiums. Which is a shame, Valour fans would kill it in a smaller stadium. The Kansas City mls stadium is my dream style for CPL teams in the future. 18K soccer specific, obviously this is years down the road. 

I know unfortunately understand the two teams playing playing in the CFL stadiums and having to fill dates in those stadiums. But like in the early years of the MLS just hated watching games on TV of these teams playing in those massive NFL stadiums and seeing all those empty seats. Go watch a New England Revolution game and even 15 to 18000 in that massive stadium looks horrible.

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You guys are focusing on the look on TV.  I have been to Valour games and I thought the experience was great.  The noise from the trench  fills the stadium as it is.  And as average crowds hopefully grow by a couple 1000 more, they'll open up the other side of the stadium.  You cant have it both ways, our advantage was that we had a modern stadium already in place, and owners that are invested in seeing the stadium being used and full of fans.  Parking, bathrooms, concessions, TV set up etc were all in place from day one, that solved a lot of the teething problems that the other teams are having. Every team has its own problems, but the big modern stadium also has lots of positives too.  

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USL has for years had teams with inflated announced numbers compared to number of actual butts in the seats, I posted in the last month or so pics of the Ottawa Fury having what seemed like a few hundred in the stands and announcing a few thousand, and one of OKC Energy in a similar situation.

 

 

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^ ^ Echo that.  I'm not sure a lot of regulars at the Valour matches would swap IG Field for someplace like Clarke just to have a cozier venue.  Not if it means giving up a modern grandstand, roof, and all the other trimings, even if we are only using a fraction of the stadium.  And in the portion that is open things are fairly full to capacity, which goes a long ways in keeping it feeling like you are at an event despite the size.  

I'm damned sure almost none of the casuals would swap IGF for a venue like Clarke.  Not to pick on Clarke Stadium.  It's just that it's a long way from what spoiled footie fans expect. 

Would give my right arm to have an LRT station a 3 minutes walk from IGF though.  Supposedly one day. Would be great if my grand kids could take me on the LRT when Winnipeg North End visits Valour in the league derby.

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Posted (edited)

Should be encouraging for the future of the Canadian Championship competition as the top domestic competition that the announced numbers in Montreal and Vancouver were 14723 and 16089:

https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2019/07/25/canada/canadian-championship/montreal-impacts/york-9/2984617/

https://int.soccerway.com/matches/2019/07/25/canada/canadian-championship/vancouver-whitecaps-fc/cavalry/2984616/

I don't think the MLS teams normally provide this one to their supporters in the season ticket package?

Pathetic that some narrow-minded individuals on here are projecting their CanPL vs MLS obsessions onto other people when the silent majority in Canadian soccer will want both leagues to thrive and the normal healthy response to these games should be that this competition is a tremendous opportunity to grow interest in domestic Canadian pro soccer in the years ahead. Both CanPL and MLS can benefit through that because all the boats in the water rise with the tide.

Fingers crossed for 5000+ in Saskatoon so we can continue to see fully pro soccer spreading into more Canadian cities from coast to coast and its great to see the Whitecaps doing their bit to support that. You make more progress when you work together for the greater good rather than dividing into bitterly opposed factions with a crabs in a barrel mentality.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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