Herdman new head coach

[narduch]

Should we start a who should be Canada's next manager thread? Or is that premature?

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

7 minutes ago, narduch said:

Should we start a who should be Canada's next manager thread? Or is that premature?

Herdman probably peaks in on this board, doesn't he?

[toontownman]

6 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Herdman probably peaks in on this board, doesn't he?

God help him if he does. He must know better 

[toontownman]

17 minutes ago, narduch said:

Should we start a who should be Canada's next manager thread? Or is that premature?

Well, I don't think there is ever a wrong time for a.. 

.

                     Thread

 

Really it would be an ongoing thread anyway regardless of who is in charge. People always have a preference of someone they would like to be next.

[RJB]

Herdman out? 

Seems like he's outworn his welcome as there aren't many here clamoring for him to stay.  

What does he get from a move to the TFC?  Not sure there's much upward mobility there: Jesse Marsch is the only coach to go from MLS to Europe in my memory (Vieira doesn't count, he is a special case) so I'm not sure he's getting a stepping stone with the club.  Has there been others?

That said, he successfully jumped from women to men and convinced many (myself included) so maybe he knows something us geniuses don't!

[nolando]

18 minutes ago, RJB said:

Herdman out? 

Seems like he's outworn his welcome as there aren't many here clamoring for him to stay.  

What does he get from a move to the TFC? 

He'll get ninety nine problems but the cash ain't one.

[costarg]

2 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Not sure that's true. 

Compare the starting lineups to the Nations League USA game which should have been the strongest we had. 

Keeper - different

1 defender the same in the first game, 2 in second.

2 midfielders the same of 5, (but you could argue Buchanan would normally start in an A team ahead of Laryea )

Forwards - different. 

So 4 maybe 3 is a lot different than 6 which would be a majority of team. 

 

And part of those changes were playing players where they had never or rarely played (RCB in a 3  for McGraw and DM for Bombito)

 Of course it was an experimental team.  

Edit: I would also argue that 2 of the "A" players are ones we are looking to replace in the near future. And play in areas where we have struggled for quality in the past. 

Dude, all due respect, what are you going on about?  Why are you bringing up and comparing the USA nations league game with the GC, when we all know its completely different squads?  We all know a lot of guys stayed home for the GC, doesn't change the fact we still had 6 of Herdman's A team vs Guadeloupe and Guatemala, we started:

Borjan, Miller, Vitoria, Laryea, Osorio & Hoilett. 

Those are all A-team guys and have been Herdman's A-team guys for a long time.  

It's not about "guys we're looking to replace in the near future".  We're talking about games that have already been played and guys that are proven to be Herdman's favorites and part of the A squad. 

Focus and stay on subject, stop moving the posts.

 

[costarg]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

We only had vitoria as our A defender at the gold cup. 

Really?  And what is Kamal Miller if not part of Herdman's A team?  You guys are just trolling now, and I'm a fool for entertaining you.  Get serious man.

[nfitz]

1 hour ago, RJB said:

Herdman out? 

Seems like he's outworn his welcome as there aren't many here clamoring for him to stay.

Losing Herdman will set the national team back. I can't even begin to fathom the negative view of him, given how much Canada exceeded expectations during the last World Cup cycle.

Mind you, I hear Holger is available ...

 

1 hour ago, RJB said:

What does he get from a move to the TFC?

He gets to escape the complete sh**show that is CSA, which seems to be well on it's way to destroying it's 2026 chances, with a lack of funding and competency. I wouldn't be surprised if they lose World Cup hosting at this rate.

And of course the pay raise. And if he can pull off the same magic a third time, he's well on his way to the biggest leagues.

 

1 hour ago, RJB said:

Not sure there's much upward mobility there: Jesse Marsch is the only coach to go from MLS to Europe in my memory (Vieira doesn't count, he is a special case) so I'm not sure he's getting a stepping stone with the club.  Has there been others?

Bradley coached in Norway, France, and the Premier League. Though perhaps not the most successful example. Henry is now the France U21 coach. And then there's Carver ... though mostly as an interim or caretaker.

 

 

 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

First I apologise about Borjan, I forgot about him playing those first games.

Why am I bringing up the two teams? 

The Nations League starters against the State were the best team we could put out.  Everyone said we were going for it and almost everyone was available for selection. So that shows what the A team is.  A team is 11 players, a squad the whole group. Correct?

You can talk about the past all you want but we are looking to move beyond Vitoria (why Kennedy started against the States, I would say) So the A team, as of this summer, was hopefully not going to include him.  I also don't put Hoillett there, as Herdman didn't against the States. That was the A team at that moment which is helpful to compare with what we played with in the games you were judging.

So I disagree with couple guys being A team players, if they were A squad players in the past.  

But even then, you have to admit that those 4/6 players are generally not playing at the level of the players that were not at the Gold Cup.  Our top tier players, the upper half (at least) of the A team were not there.  And we tried some things. Judging those teams' performances and their coach's as if they were they same is far from reasonable to me. 

45 minutes ago, costarg said:

Focus and stay on subject, stop moving the posts.

Mate, we are adults on a semi-reasonable forum,  the football-watcher's equivalent of "Dude, do you even lift?" comments don't make your points sound stronger.  In fact the opposite.  Unfortunately, your posts seem full of them lately. 

As always I do appreciate your points. 

Edited August 23, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[costarg]

14 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

First I apologise about Borjan, I forgot about him playing those first games.

Why am I bringing up the two teams? 

The Nations League starters against the State were the best team we could put out.  Everyone said we were going for it and almost everyone was available for selection. So that shows what the A team is.  A team is 11 players, a squad the whole group. Correct?

You can talk about the past all you want but we are looking to move beyond Vitoria (why Kennedy started against the States, I would say) So the A team, as of this summer, was hopefully not going to include him.  I also don't put Hoillett there, as Herdman didn't against the States. That was the A team at that moment which is helpful to compare with what we played with in the games you were judging.

So I disagree with couple guys being A team players, if they were A squad players in the past.  

But even then, you have to admit that those 4/6 players are generally not playing at the level of the players that were not at the Gold Cup.  Our top tier players, the upper half (at least) of the A team were not there.  And we tried some things. Judging those teams' performances and their coach's as if they were they same is far from reasonable to me. 

Mate, we are adults on a semi-reasonable forum,  the football-watcher's equivalent of "Dude, do you even lift?" comments don't make your points sound stronger.  In fact the opposite.  Unfortunately, your posts seem full of them lately. 

As always I do appreciate your points. 

Ok, I feel we're getting somewhere and I understand what you're getting at.  Honestly, you had me questioning my memory and a little of my sanity with the lineups and some of the takes.  I had to go back and check the lineups to make sure I wasn't imaging things differently.  Hence some of the frustration.  The "dude" is just me trying to keep it light and not come off completely unhinged and unreasonable, perhaps not the best approach.

When I mentioned A team, I meant the 18, not the 11.  To me Laryea and Tajon are both A guys even though they play the same position.  Hence my a teams being a little more than 11.  Same for Hoilett and Osorio, in my mind an 11 with either one of them can still be the A team (in 2022).  So a guy that is coming on to replace one of the starting 11 is still on my A list.  I see your point and understand how we differ there, both are fair and logical ways of looking at it.

Peace and have a good one.

[BearcatSA]

6 hours ago, toontownman said:

He has been linked away increasingly for the last year and half. Maybe there is no smoke without fire.

I am curious as to which clubs or NTs in the men's game he has been linked besides the the New Zealand men's NT.

 

[toontownman]

39 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I am curious as to which clubs or NTs in the men's game he has been linked besides the the New Zealand men's NT.

 

There was a clutch of English clubs. Burnley, Blackburn and QPR in 2022. Then he was quoted with the following this year after confirming he was staying as Canada coach.  

“I’ve received several offers in recent months, all of which I have turned down, including an offer from New Zealand Football." 

Haven't seen anything reported for who else might have approached him.

[Bison44]

"He gets to escape the complete sh**show that is CSA, which seems to be well on it's way to destroying it's 2026 chances, with a lack of funding and competency. I wouldn't be surprised if they lose World Cup hosting at this rate"

 

Oh boy, have you watched TFC the last 3-4 years??  He'll skip the gender equality and union problems.  But he'll be saddled with Bradleys DP's, a toxic...completely toxic locker room and TFC front office is easily more of a shit show than CSA.  They canned almost everyone at CSA after a great few years on the pitch, and Manning just clicks on no matter what clusterf@CK he is involved with.  But Herdman is a sneaky little climber, and I am sure he sees this as his chance to get into the pro game at a good level with legions of worshipping CDN fans that will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Bison44

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, toontownman said:

There was a clutch of English clubs. Burnley, Blackburn and QPR in 2022. 

All mentioned in the same English tabloid story that never got corroborated apart from Wheels' Twitter repost.

I looked back on this thread to refresh myself about it and some of the posters at the time looked at it through a skeptical lense.  Probably rightly so.

His best chance for a significant upward move in the men's game outside of a Canadian orbit would have been after the World Cup but since then, his trajectory has been a flat line. 

For the talk about him wanting to stay in the men's game and moving on to bigger and better things there, I wonder how he feels about not being in the oddsmakers' conversations for the USWNT gig (at least, I haven't seen his name brought up, even as a outside chance type)?

I get the feeling more and more that the dual role thing that @shortyand @Gian-Luca alluded to , the bigger challenge he is looking for, is actually getting constructed here.

[RS]

7 hours ago, Bison44 said:

"He gets to escape the complete sh**show that is CSA, which seems to be well on it's way to destroying it's 2026 chances, with a lack of funding and competency. I wouldn't be surprised if they lose World Cup hosting at this rate"

 

Oh boy, have you watched TFC the last 3-4 years??  He'll skip the gender equality and union problems.  But he'll be saddled with Bradleys DP's, a toxic...completely toxic locker room and TFC front office is easily more of a shit show than CSA.  They canned almost everyone at CSA after a great few years on the pitch, and Manning just clicks on no matter what clusterf@CK he is involved with.  But Herdman is a sneaky little climber, and I am sure he sees this as his chance to get into the pro game at a good level with legions of worshipping CDN fans that will give him the benefit of the doubt.

Your timeline is exaggerated as TFC nearly won the Supporters Shield three years ago and was in the MLS Cup final four years ago. That's understandable as time really blends together in the COVID era.

Anyway, I'm not sure the CSA is less of a shit show than TFC.

CSA's problems are institutional and would require a huge overhaul. Couple that with the problematic CSB deal that won't allow for much financial wiggle room for the next 20(!) years, and it looks pretty dire. Meanwhile, TFC's problems (as big as they are) seem to stem from one man's continued employment.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

13 hours ago, narduch said:

Should we start a who should be Canada's next manager thread? Or is that premature?

We should get a moderator to edit the title of this thread to "Herdman old head coach"

 

[ray]

1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

We should get a moderator to edit the title of this thread to "Herdman old head coach"

 

Aw, I don't know.  It seems only a matter of time until he is a new head coach ... somewhere.

Herdman is looking for another position and it is in the CMNT's interest that he finds one sooner rather than later.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

We should get a moderator to edit the title of this thread to "Herdman old head coach"

 

Is 48 old?   Not there yet but I can see it on the horizon...I mean asking for a friend. 

[trc2014]

Anyone listen to the interview with Josh Klouke on 1050?  From his tone, sounds like the deal is all but done.

Edited August 23, 2023 by trc2014

[Obinna]

39 minutes ago, trc2014 said:

Anyone listen to the interview with Josh Klouke on 1050?  From his tone, sounds like the deal is all but done.

Shitty. Really hope things don't come to fruition.

CanMNT without Herdman scares me. Not because there aren't better coaches out there, but because I don't trust the CSA to find a better coach, especially in these times. Things at the CSA seem more turbulent than ever and if the player love Herdman so much and he's not there it's going to be a task keeping all the systems he's put in place up and running.

Part of me trusts this group of players and remaining staff members to pick up that responsibility and keep things chugging along, but the longer time goes on without Herdman, the more temptation there will be to let standards slip.

These guys are professionals, but they are human, and the Canadian men's National team has a loooooong history of low standards. Fortunately there are very few holdovers from that era, so we may actually have a shot at keeping these systems going regardless of how long it takes a new manager to come in. Fingers crossed.

And for Herdman, good luck at TFC. I know it seems like mission impossible, but Herdman is a unique guy and he'll have plenty of resources to make things work. It's a good thing as well he'll be involved in the Canadian landscape in some capacity. Obviously being the most recent NT coach the relationship between TFC and the CanMNT should be very solid.  

[Metro]

43 minutes ago, trc2014 said:

Anyone listen to the interview with Josh Klouke on 1050?  From his tone, sounds like the deal is all but done.

If the Italians were not impressed with Bradley's resume, I CANNOT wait to hear about the shenanigans they pull on Herdman.

For us TFC fans, we should gather around the tire fire because even though it doesn't look like it will be going down anytime soon, at least it'll keep us warm during the winter. 

[blueseeka]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/590/fan-drive-time/raps-and-knicks-from-on-court-to-in-court/?s=09

Found it. Fast forward to 50mins for the interview

Herdman isn't a definite because not sure of Manning's standing. But certainly at the forefront.

Mentions Bobby as a replacement if he goes

[Ruffian]

47 minutes ago, Metro said:

If the Italians were not impressed with Bradley's resume, I CANNOT wait to hear about the shenanigans they pull on Herdman.

I doubt it was Bradley's resume the Italians didn't like. It was more likely his coaching style. Bob Bradley has a pretty good resume as MLS coaches go.

[toontownman]

I can understand the jump if high level club coaching is his end goal. MLS might be a very smart gamble by Herdman, career wise. Given his lack of experience at club level the MLS will allow him to acclimatize in a league he will be very familiar with by now.

While he will have a steep learning curve in lots of areas, it could act like a soft launch into club management where he can have his best attributes as a coach and motivator highlighted while learning the ropes with everything else. Will be a big test on the tactics front and sink or swim going week to week matches in a long season though. 

Knowing TFC they will likely at least double his CSA wages to come if they want him!