CPL new teams speculation

[xcalibre]

Good point, it was odd that they were framing those TFC2 games there as "pro soccer comes back to Rochester" etc clickbait. Could be testing the market for something more permanent

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, mpg_29 said:

I think the appropriate analogy there is the Canadian teams play in the MLS..

The reason I chose EPL and Wales for my analogy is because EPL is defined to be the championship of ENGLAND and CPL will be the championship of CANADA but MLS is just a random single entity sports corporation that is not the championship of anything but itself.

Any football club in England can work its way up the pyramid and eventually become champions of England. It remains to be seen whether that will hold true for CPL but it is certainly not the case for MLS.

Edited March 4, 2018 by dsqpr

[CDNFootballer]

5 hours ago, Bison44 said:

I am half expecting TFC to announce that Rochester will replace TFC2 next year, and the Rhinos will be their new USL affiliate with loans etc.

The Rhinos are likely done, the USL poorly vetted the current owners when they quickly brought them in to replace the former owner who walked away from the team after they won the USL championship in 2015. Current owners have subleased the soccer stadium to the Rochester Lancers (and Lady Lancers womens club) of NPSL for this year as they still manage the stadium at the moment.

 

Maybe a new group comes in though and affiliates with TFC for 2019.

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

I am getting ads on Facebook from the official FC Edmonton page to buy the 2019 commitment things. I didn’t realize that the club was getting involved in advertising like that. It seems like an encouraging sign.

[ChrisinOrleans]

Honestly, what is the point of letting in American teams to a league that is designed to be ‘Canadian’? Does this not remove the entire driving economic incentive for investors (a national league not in competition with NASL and USL).

I’d prefer we just use American leagues and infrastructure if we’re going to have US-based team in the CanPL, since the entire idea of having “our own infrastructure, by us, for us” would be entirely defeated by having 15 – 20% of the entire league be based in another country at launch.

Either this league will be Canadian, or it won’t. If it’s not, let's rename it USL-North and stop pretending that it's going to be about Canada, our ability to have a national league, and develop our own infrastructure.   

[MtlMario]

Definite NO to American teams in CPL.

[deschamp86]

18 minutes ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

Honestly, what is the point of letting in American teams to a league that is designed to be ‘Canadian’? Does this not remove the entire driving economic incentive for investors (a national league not in competition with NASL and USL).

I’d prefer we just use American leagues and infrastructure if we’re going to have US-based team in the CanPL, since the entire idea of having “our own infrastructure, by us, for us” would be entirely defeated by having 15 – 20% of the entire league be based in another country at launch.

Either this league will be Canadian, or it won’t. If it’s not, let's rename it USL-North and stop pretending that it's going to be about Canada, our ability to have a national league, and develop our own infrastructure.   

Also if an American team is drawing well and is a success in CPL, they would just get plucked by MLS. Would risk a lot of unnecessary instability 

[ChrisinOrleans]

26 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

Also if an American team is drawing well and is a success in CPL, they would just get plucked by MLS. Would risk a lot of unnecessary instability 

Agreed. 

I find it quite pathetic actually how "voyageurs" are already talking about American expansion and a ball hasn't even been kicked yet. Either we're a capable, competent G8 nation with an advanced economy; or we need America to hold our hand and tie our shoes.

[Alex D]

We could get Detroit, Rochester and Buffalo then trade them to the USSF with some TAM, GAM, and an international roster spot for TFC, Impact and Caps. They can keep Brek Shea

[toontownman]

No U.S. teams, its a Canadian league, end of story case closed. 

[to70]

After the lawsuit there isn't a chance in hell that the USSF would give the Cosmos playing out permission

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

2 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

..Either we're a capable, competent G8 nation with an advanced economy; or we need America to hold our hand and tie our shoes.

If we had the geography of Luxembourg or Belgium we would have had a national league since back in the 1920s when the NSL was operating as a semi-pro league in the Windsor-Quebec corridor and drawing some reasonable sized crowds. Instead, we have population stretched out sporadically in a narrow band in an area comparable to Amsterdam to Tehran. The logic to north-south links has nothing to do with not being capable or competent in some way or not having an advanced economy and everything to do with soccer being a niche spectator sport rather than the dominant one and not being able to drive from one end of the country and back in a single day.

Think you can all relax about American involvement though. Since the 1990s, the USSF has blocked American entry into D1 leagues elsewhere. Have seen it claimed (on here back in the old network54 days) that they blocked a Chicago group entering the original CSL when it was in its death throws. The big one has been not allowing an LA team into the Mexican league system despite the cash bonanza that would be involved. From what I remember they actively blocked the APSL's LA Salsa from playing in the Mexican league system prior to the emergence of MLS, but it's been a while and I forget the gory details. The Tijuana Xolos tapping into the San Diego market is as close as the Mexican league is allowed to get to the huge Mexican-American soccer fanbase (that for the most part still steers well clear of MLS) without SUM being involved in some way through USSF sanctioning having to be obtained.

[Kent]

5 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

Honestly, what is the point of letting in American teams to a league that is designed to be ‘Canadian’? Does this not remove the entire driving economic incentive for investors (a national league not in competition with NASL and USL).

I’d prefer we just use American leagues and infrastructure if we’re going to have US-based team in the CanPL, since the entire idea of having “our own infrastructure, by us, for us” would be entirely defeated by having 15 – 20% of the entire league be based in another country at launch.

Either this league will be Canadian, or it won’t. If it’s not, let's rename it USL-North and stop pretending that it's going to be about Canada, our ability to have a national league, and develop our own infrastructure.   

I don’t want American teams in the CPL either, but it wouldn’t entirely defeat the purpose of having our own league. We would still be able to decide who is in and who is out. How the league is run, how many Canadians per team, etc. There would still be much more power in Canada over the league than there is for MLS or USL.

[MtlMario]

4 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

If we had the geography of Luxembourg or Belgium we would have had a national league since back in the 1920s when the NSL was operating as a semi-pro league in the Windsor-Quebec corridor and drawing some reasonable sized crowds. Instead, we have population stretched out sporadically in a narrow band in an area comparable to Amsterdam to Tehran. The logic to north-south links has nothing to do with not being capable or competent in some way or not having an advanced economy and everything to do with soccer being a niche spectator sport rather than the dominant one and not being able to drive from one end of the country and back in a single day.

Think you can all relax about American involvement though. Since the 1990s, the USSF has blocked American entry into D1 leagues elsewhere. Have seen it claimed (on here back in the old network54 days) that they blocked a Chicago group entering the original CSL when it was in its death throws. The big one has been not allowing an LA team into the Mexican league system despite the cash bonanza that would be involved. From what I remember they actively blocked the APSL's LA Salsa from playing in the Mexican league system prior to the emergence of MLS, but it's been a while and I forget the gory details. The Tijuana Xolos tapping into the San Diego market is as close as the Mexican league is allowed to get to the huge Mexican-American soccer fanbase (that for the most part still steers well clear of MLS) without SUM being involved in some way through USSF sanctioning having to be obtained.

I can't believe people are still trying to use our country's size as an excuse for the CPL to fail. Get out of the seventies.

 

2 hours ago, Kent said:

I don’t want American teams in the CPL either, but it wouldn’t entirely defeat the purpose of having our own league. We would still be able to decide who is in and who is out. How the league is run, how many Canadians per team, etc. There would still be much more power in Canada over the league than there is for MLS or USL.

If there are American teams in CPL you can't force them to use Cdn. players, just like when the CFL had American teams they all used American players. I would assume it would be same for CPL.    NO American teams in CPL!!!!!!

[mpg_29]

29 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

I can't believe people are still trying to use our country's size as an excuse for the CPL to fail. Get out of the seventies.

The costs of travel are significant. So it factors into economic viability.

[MtlMario]

17 hours ago, mpg_29 said:

The costs of travel are significant. So it factors into economic viability.

Yes it does factor, but comparing it to the 20's (when the teams traveled by donkey) is ridiculous.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

3 hours ago, MtlMario said:

Yes it does factor, but comparing it to the 20's (when the teams traveled by donkey) is ridiculous.

What was stated was that we would have had a genuinely National Soccer League since the 1920s, if the geography of the country was different.

 

[MtlMario]

Yes, we all understood.

[BuzzAndSting]

1 hour ago, MtlMario said:

Yes, we all understood.

Just don’t engage him, there’s no point.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

^^^Obviously hasn't taken on board Steven Sandor's advice:

https://the11.ca/to-be-evangelical-canpl-boosters-we-cant-be-preaching-to-the-choir/

...Because we move to these matched groups, we’re often gratified by being told that we’re right, and get way too overly offended when, the odd occasion arises, we’re told that we’re wrong.

Confirmation bias is a scary, scary thing, because it shuts us off from debate — or gives us a false sense that the things we like are more popular than they really are...

Edited March 7, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[HfxCeltic]

The one thing that Sandor touches on I really agree with is the notion of "preaching to the new church" and really trying to be inclusive in who the supporters group are reaching out too. I've seen it a bit in Halifax where folks are on the football vs. soccer argument and it really has the potential to alienate a potential fan who does not feel welcome because they're a "casual" or aren't as knowledgeable about "football". The CPL isn't going to succeed if you're not reaching out to and attracting folks who may have never watched a game in their lives, but are interested in the prospect of a new option for live professional sports in their community. Language and messaging have a huge potential to influence how successful this whole thing is.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

It definitely seems to hint that things are not going as well as hoped in season ticket deposit terms in Edmonton beyond the small hardcore that follow what is happening on the internet. In general I think people on here tend to overestimate the importance of fan groups and internet forums in the big scheme of things. From what I saw in the early days of TFC, the majority of fans that go to games have little contact with it or interest in it and will sometimes see things quite differently from the minority that are in the bubble and feel no need to follow the lead of fan group capos on things like chants. That's why the lack of coverage in the Edmonton Journal and Edmonton Sun websites looked problematic to me, because even if people don't buy newspapers as often as they used to, webpages like that still get plenty of hits and will reach a lot more of the people that need to be reached than something like the Voyageurs board or even Steven Sandor's 11.ca blog will. 

[longlugan]

2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It definitely seems to hint that things are not going as well as hoped in season ticket deposit terms in Edmonton beyond the small hardcore that follow what is happening on the internet. In general I think people on here tend to overestimate the importance of fan groups and internet forums in the big scheme of things. From what I saw in the early days of TFC, the majority of fans that go to games have little contact with it or interest in it and will sometimes see things quite differently from the minority that are in the bubble and feel no need to follow the lead of fan group capos on things like chants. That's why the lack of coverage in the Edmonton Journal and Edmonton Sun websites looked problematic to me, because even if people don't buy newspapers as often as they used to, webpages like that still get plenty of hits and will reach a lot more of the people that need to be reached than something like the Voyageurs board or even Steven Sandor's 11.ca blog will. 

Honestly...very very few people give a shit what you think.

[ted]

1 hour ago, longlugan said:

Honestly...very very few people give a shit what you think.

Maybe, but occasionally he makes a semi-valid point.

Major outlets like the Sun and Journal are going to be seen by a lot more potential season-ticket holders than this site and 11.ca. That is simply truth.

[Complete Homer]

41 minutes ago, ted said:

Maybe, but occasionally he makes a semi-valid point.

Major outlets like the Sun and Journal are going to be seen by a lot more potential season-ticket holders than this site and 11.ca. That is simply truth.

This site? Yeah I doubt there is any direct sway at all coming from here...but it has been the nucleation site for CPL supporters groups, which are important IMO. Look at Grand River Union...started as 4 guys, now they can dozens of people coming to events and have CBC coverage of their fundraising efforts (and getting CPL mentioned in the press). 

2 of those 4 guys heard about CPL over beers with me, and I heard about CPL from this site. 

I'm not saying that people arguing on the internet does anything...but there is a certain knock-on effect from giving people a place to discuss something that is very niche when some of those people go out and do something about it afterwards. 

Edit: Not taking any credit for GRU, just saying that information propagated from this site led to some people down the line working quite hard to get the word out in their community, and I'm sure that there's similar stories happening elsewhere. There's something to be said about helping this community actually support people doing that

Edited March 8, 2018 by Complete Homer