CPL new teams speculation

[HfxCeltic]

2 hours ago, longlugan said:

Honestly...very very few people give a shit what you think.

This isn't constructive at all. I have probably never agreed with anything BBTB has posted and I'm really hoping someday he'll see the light, but from what I've read,  I don't think he's ever come right out and insulted anyone. He provides an unpopular opinion but is generally pretty civil. Telling someone you don't give a shit what they think will never help this whole thing progress; just makes you look like a prick.

[mpg_29]

Ultimately when it comes to attracting the masses/mainstream/casuals...ticket prices are what's gonna cut through all the bullshit.  There are lots of people and families looking for affordable entertainment options.

You can have all the coverage and advertising in the world but if tickets are overpriced the mainstream won't become regulars fans/customers. And conversely if you have affordable pricing you won't even need that much coverage and advertising.

[Complete Homer]

2 minutes ago, HfxCeltic said:

 I have probably never agreed with anything BBTB has posted and I'm really hoping someday he'll see the light, but from what I've read,  I don't think he's ever come right out and insulted anyone. 

Not to make this about a particular user, that isn't constructive either, but he certainly has. Aside from run of the mill name calling, he's used mental illness as an insult and accused a slew of people sincerely trying to grow support for CPL as being "attention seekers".

That's all I'll really say about that, I don't want the thread to become about bashing an individual, just informing you.

[Complete Homer]

Just now, mpg_29 said:

Ultimately when it comes to attracting the masses/mainstream/casuals...ticket prices are what's gonna cut through all the bullshit.  There are lots of people and families looking for affordable entertainment options.

You can have all the coverage and advertising in the world but if tickets are overpriced the mainstream won't become regulars fans/customers. And conversely if you have affordable pricing you won't even need that much coverage and advertising.

To me it is more about committing to properly marketing the league. Spending a lot up front to market is a risk, but to me it seems like a necessary risk if they are already taking the big risk of starting a pro league anyway. It doesn't matter if tickets are as cheap as $15 if the perceived value is $5

To me it seems like the signs point towards them making this commitment, so I' hopeful.

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Complete Homer said:

To me it is more about committing to properly marketing the league. Spending a lot up front to market is a risk, but to me it seems like a necessary risk if they are already taking the big risk of starting a pro league anyway. It doesn't matter if tickets are as cheap as $15 if the perceived value is $5

To me it seems like the signs point towards them making this commitment, so I' hopeful.

I think there is some truth to this.  People could take their families to go watch reasonably high level footy via their university teams, but they generally do not - despite ticket prices for those events going for peanuts.  Yet they will pay more to go to something like an NBL basketball game because the perceived value is higher.  The whole experience is more of a package and the perception of the league matters.

For sure ticket prices will factor in, but there are other things that will also drive (or not) attendance. 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The biggest concern I would have about marketing this league, if I were a paid employee looking for stable employment to pay off a mortgage, would be that the principals involved seem to genuinely believe that having lots of Canadian players involved is likely to be a selling point. That's fine if it's hockey or the CFL, but good luck with that where soccer is concerned. Think bankrolling a big name hasbeen from the Premiership as a marquee player for the launch would do a lot more for them in interest terms than somebody like Atiba Hutchison would, unfortunately, and it will take a major sustained turn around in the fortunes of the CMNT for attitudes to shift on who is likely to provide soccer that is worth paying $20+ to see.

Edited March 8, 2018 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[ChrisinOrleans]

5 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The biggest concern I would have about marketing this league, if I were a paid employee looking for stable employment to pay off a mortgage, would be that the principals involved seem to genuinely believe that having lots of Canadian players involved is likely to be a selling point. That's fine if it's hockey or the CFL, but good luck with that where soccer is concerned. Think bankrolling a big name hasbeen from the Premiership as a marquee player for the launch would do a lot more for them in interest terms than somebody like Atiba Hutchison would, unfortunately, and it will take a major sustained turn around in the fortunes of the CMNT for attitudes to shift on who is likely to provide soccer that is worth paying $20+ to see.

I'm actually inclined to agree here. 

The Ottawa Fury charge about $30 - $40 per ticket. L'Impact de Montréal charge about the same. As much as I like Maxim Tissot, I'd rather drive the extra hour to Stade Saputo to see Didier Drogba and Marco Di Vaio than I would pay to see Maxim Tissot and... whoever else is on the Fury right now. 

Big names sell. And MLS will ALWAYS have that edge on CanPL, as long as the DP rule exists. 

[Kurt-MTL]

I think in the beginning, having a big-name on the field would certainly get some bums in seats. And I agree that an older European/South-American star would probably get more attention than a "Canadian star" ala Hutchinson. That said, I would much prefer if CPL could go the Atlanta United route and invest in good stadiums, good coaching, and attracting talented young players to grow the league.

[dyslexic nam]

8 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I'm actually inclined to agree here. 

The Ottawa Fury charge about $30 - $40 per ticket. L'Impact de Montréal charge about the same. As much as I like Maxim Tissot, I'd rather drive the extra hour to Stade Saputo to see Didier Drogba and Marco Di Vaio than I would pay to see Maxim Tissot and... whoever else is on the Fury right now. 

Big names sell. And MLS will ALWAYS have that edge on CanPL, as long as the DP rule exists. 

At the outset, this will only affect a minority of CPL teams since most rumoured CPL  markets are not MLS markets.  And for Toronto, there is ample population to support a second (or third)  club in the area.  Maybe VWC would impact the draw of the possible mainland BC CPL club, but there may be enough separation that it isn't an issue.

In short, I don't think that competition with MLS clubs will be an issue in most markets.

[Kent]

4 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

At the outset, this will only affect a minority of CPL teams since most rumoured CPL  markets are not MLS markets.  And for Toronto, there is ample population to support a second (or third)  club in the area.  Maybe VWC would impact the draw of the possible mainland BC CPL club, but there may be enough separation that it isn't an issue.

In short, I don't think that competition with MLS clubs will be an issue in most markets.

Even if a CPL team isn’t near an MLS market I would argue his point still has relevance. It’s about drawing power. Even if there are no other soccer options potential fans still need to be drawn to the stadium.

[BradMack]

19 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The biggest concern I would have about marketing this league, if I were a paid employee looking for stable employment to pay off a mortgage, would be that the principals involved seem to genuinely believe that having lots of Canadian players involved is likely to be a selling point. That's fine if it's hockey or the CFL, but good luck with that where soccer is concerned. Think bankrolling a big name hasbeen from the Premiership as a marquee player for the launch would do a lot more for them in interest terms than somebody like Atiba Hutchison would, unfortunately, and it will take a major sustained turn around in the fortunes of the CMNT for attitudes to shift on who is likely to provide soccer that is worth paying $20+ to see.

This is true unfortunately, but there are some examples where this is somewhat changing. I think MLS kind of took the approach of aging stars and over did it to the point where fans started seeing the league as somewhat of a retirement league. I think a lot of North American fans have realized thats not the way to go anymore and would rather see exciting young prospects. You see the excitement in Atlanta because of the route they've taken. You've even got Canadian examples of this such as Alphonso Davies, Ballou and Hanson Boakai. Obviously Davies and Ballou are top teir prospects and that probably won't happen in the CPL for a few years but Boakai was from a possible CPL clubs academy and the fans loved him when he was on the field, I know it didn't sell many extra tickets but the club seemed to be hamstrung from the start. Obviously the aging star will still get a few thousand extra tickets sold but you'd be paying a pretty penny to get a name that could do that.

BTW im not disagreeing with you, just saying that I don't think it could work out when you look at how much money teams would need to spend on a star to make a real impact on the marketing side. There are a few examples of getting stars on the cheap but its a tricky game as you need to hit the perfect balance of guys who are still relevant but also wouldn't demand more than $1 million probably. A fun little game might be to find some guys who fit that? Any ideas? Crazy one here, DeRo is coming out of retirement to play for our Futsal team... Could he play a season for an Ontario based club? He obviously couldn't play every game but I could see him signing on for a year at like $200k and maybe selling some tickets if you could pry him from whatever else he's doing these days. Well, theres probably a zero percent chance of that happening so just sign his kid instead. 

Edited March 9, 2018 by BradMack

[1996]

Being an MLS fan and TFC one it's not the MLS in Canada that might derail this thing actually because of the MLS in Canada and it's success one could argue is one of the reason this league has got people with money wanting to invest in a Canadian league. Even in the 3 Canadian MLS markets having an already MLS team there this  might prove to be a reason a CPL team can also work in that market, it just gives people in those markets that have now got the soccer bug because of the MLS team's existence in that city , wanting more live soccer to go watch so it could end up being a good thing. 

Edited March 10, 2018 by 1996

[ChrisinOrleans]

On 3/8/2018 at 6:40 PM, dyslexic nam said:

At the outset, this will only affect a minority of CPL teams since most rumoured CPL  markets are not MLS markets.  And for Toronto, there is ample population to support a second (or third)  club in the area.  Maybe VWC would impact the draw of the possible mainland BC CPL club, but there may be enough separation that it isn't an issue.

In short, I don't think that competition with MLS clubs will be an issue in most markets.

Ottawa is not an MLS market, and neither is Québec. Fans from both regularly attend games in Montréal. There are groups in Québec that organize bus trips to go see the Impact - 3.5 hours away. 

So, Hamilton, Mississauga and London are all within that same distance to Toronto. Surrey and Victoria are within the Vancouver (and Seattle) region. I remember living in Sarnia in 2007, and we were driving 3 hours to Toronto to see an MLS match because David Beckham was in town. 

On 3/8/2018 at 11:04 PM, Kent said:

Even if a CPL team isn’t near an MLS market I would argue his point still has relevance. It’s about drawing power. Even if there are no other soccer options potential fans still need to be drawn to the stadium.

Absolutely. 

[Guest]

I honestly do not think the initial drawing power of CPL will be based on player name recognition. If it is then the league is doomed. I think the initial drawing power will be a combination of love for the sport, curiosity about the sport, and a desire to see young players who may one day play for a big club (sort of the converse of big name recognition).

CPL needs to define its vision carefully. If the long term plan is to compete with the EPL, or even MLS, it will fail (although if the league proves successful it could one day surpass MLS, but that must not be the objective or it will focus on the wrong things like player name recognition). In my mind the long term vision should be something along the lines of providing a competitive professional league where promising Canadian youngsters can develop (of course competitive teams will need wily veterans too) and where Canadian football fans can watch the beautiful game. It should be understood by all at the outset that the best players will move to bigger and better teams and leagues. That MUST be an inherent part of the vision.

The seeds will need to be planted in fertile ground and watered frequently.

[CNMNTPERUELIGIBLE]

39 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

I honestly do not think the initial drawing power of CPL will be based on player name recognition. If it is then the league is doomed. I think the initial drawing power will be a combination of love for the sport, curiosity about the sport, and a desire to see young players who may one day play for a big club (sort of the converse of big name recognition).

CPL needs to define its vision carefully. If the long term plan is to compete with the EPL, or even MLS, it will fail (although if the league proves successful it could one day surpass MLS, but that must not be the objective or it will focus on the wrong things like player name recognition). In my mind the long term vision should be something along the lines of providing a competitive professional league where promising Canadian youngsters can develop (of course competitive teams will need wily veterans too) and where Canadian football fans can watch the beautiful game. It should be understood by all at the outset that the best players will move to bigger and better teams and leagues. That MUST be an inherent part of the vision.

The seeds will need to be planted in fertile ground and watered frequently.

Slowly but surely this league will build its way up, lol

[Macksam]

On 2018-03-07 at 2:21 AM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

^^^Obviously hasn't taken on board Steven Sandor's advice:

https://the11.ca/to-be-evangelical-canpl-boosters-we-cant-be-preaching-to-the-choir/

...Because we move to these matched groups, we’re often gratified by being told that we’re right, and get way too overly offended when, the odd occasion arises, we’re told that we’re wrong.

Confirmation bias is a scary, scary thing, because it shuts us off from debate — or gives us a false sense that the things we like are more popular than they really are...

Says the person who ignores people and doesn’t engage in said debates....or when you do, you conveniently fail to address the issues you have no arguement against.

On 2018-03-07 at 7:41 PM, HfxCeltic said:

This isn't constructive at all. I have probably never agreed with anything BBTB has posted and I'm really hoping someday he'll see the light, but from what I've read,  I don't think he's ever come right out and insulted anyone. He provides an unpopular opinion but is generally pretty civil. Telling someone you don't give a shit what they think will never help this whole thing progress; just makes you look like a prick.

No, he’s made snide, underhanded remarks quite a few times, like a cucked out, pussy beta male. 

[ChrisinOrleans]

3 hours ago, Macksam said:

No, he’s made snide, underhanded remarks quite a few times, like a cucked out, pussy beta male. 

I'm uncertain that it is indeed a violation of our community rules, however I have reported it all the same. 

This is in no way respectful, productive, conducive to debate, nor conduct becoming of the community at large.   

[Guest]

5 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I'm uncertain that it is indeed a violation of our community rules, however I have reported it all the same. 

This is in no way respectful, productive, conducive to debate, nor conduct becoming of the community at large.   

You must be new 'ere. Hold onto your hat 'cause that doesn't even qualify as handbags!

[Macksam]

9 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I'm uncertain that it is indeed a violation of our community rules, however I have reported it all the same. 

This is in no way respectful, productive, conducive to debate, nor conduct becoming of the community at large.   

What? What the fuck did I do?

[longlugan]

10 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I'm uncertain that it is indeed a violation of our community rules, however I have reported it all the same. 

This is in no way respectful, productive, conducive to debate, nor conduct becoming of the community at large.   

Well I represent part of that community at large and totally agree with Macksam but you go ahead and bury your head in the sand Chris.

[Guest]

35 minutes ago, Macksam said:

What? What the fuck did I do?

You said "pussy". You also said "cucked" but I don't know what that means. "Snide" was also a bit near the knuckle.

To be fair to @ChrisinOrleans he is a relative newcomer and is not yet familiar with what constitutes a normal level of point and counter point nomenclature on here. It hasn't even started until somebody gets called an a$$hole!

[dyslexic nam]

17 hours ago, dsqpr said:

You said "pussy". You also said "cucked" but I don't know what that means. "Snide" was also a bit near the knuckle.

To be fair to @ChrisinOrleans he is a relative newcomer and is not yet familiar with what constitutes a normal level of point and counter point nomenclature on here. It hasn't even started until somebody gets called an a$$hole!

Fuck you.

[Xavier]

Well this is a lovely thread.

[SuperCanuck]

5 hours ago, Xavier said:

Well this is a lovely thread.

Yep.  Not very productive.  Are we not all here supposedly for the same reason, with the same goals?

[BuzzAndSting]

3 minutes ago, SuperCanuck said:

Yep.  Not very productive.  Are we not all here supposedly for the same reason, with the same goals?

You would think but it seems like there’s some who find joy in constantly bringing down others.