Cristián Gutiérrez

[fookisan]

You can’t blame guti when the coach puts out young inexperience back line and defensive midfielders against LAFC. MDS is the atrocious one 

[BuzzAndSting]

6 minutes ago, fookisan said:

You can’t blame guti when the coach puts out young inexperience back line and defensive midfielders against LAFC. MDS is the atrocious one 

MDS is a quality coach who’s had success where ever he’s gone, while also giving Canadians a chance to play.

I can appreciate that CG may be seeing a larger share of the attack but that’s by design because LAFC identified the weakness. He’s been walked around a few times and his body language is starting to reflect that. And he got completely out muscled by Jako on the first one.

CG is a young player, hopefully he’ll grow and learn from this.

[fookisan]

4 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

MDS is a quality coach who’s had success where ever he’s gone, while also giving Canadians a chance to play.

I can appreciate that CG may be seeing a larger share of the attack but that’s by design because LAFC identified the weakness. He’s been walked around a few times and his body language is starting to reflect that. And he got completely out muscled by Jako on the first one.

CG is a young player, hopefully he’ll grow and learn from this.

I will give you that MDS plays young Canadians but some of his decisions are mind boggling 

you want to play young players but they have to be put in a position to succeed not get beaten 4-0 in the first 14 mins of a match

[BuzzAndSting]

6 minutes ago, fookisan said:

I will give you that MDS plays young Canadians but some of his decisions are mind boggling 

you want to play young players but they have to be put in a position to succeed not get beaten 4-0 in the first 14 mins of a match

So no accountability for the players in a 6-0 game... Gotcha.

[fookisan]

10 minutes ago, BuzzAndSting said:

So no accountability for the players in a 6-0 game... Gotcha.

Not going to argue with you if you don’t understand that you can’t put a bunch of young players against one of the best team in MLS

[BuzzAndSting]

8 minutes ago, fookisan said:

Not going to argue with you if you don’t understand that you can’t put a bunch of young players against one of the best team in MLS

Right, there’s nothing the players could have done better. Are you related to Guitierez?!

[Colliedor]

The rating he was given on whoscored.com is a good reason why I don't like people using that site as a indicator of someones performance and overall ability. It never tells the full story.

He was atrocious today. For Canada's sake (if he chooses us) they better hope that wasn't a indicator of how he performs against better opposition on the regular. I've seen Canada defenders struggle before against good sides of course, but that was something else.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Colliedor

[Obinna]

I personally didn't think he was noticeably worse than anyone else tonight.

Did he lose a few battles to Bryan Rodriguez? Yeah sure, but he also made some nice tackles on a few players too.

In a game where Vancouver couldn't string passes together, he looked relatively comfortable and dependable on the ball. Those little faints to create space are in his DNA. You don't see that on the other side with Nerwinski, who treats the soccer ball like a hot potato. I am of the opinion he is the kind of player who will play better with better players, whereas a guy like Jake Nerwinski (I don't mean to pick on him, just makes for a good comparison) strikes me as the type of player who's already stretched to the max of his ability as it is. 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Obinna

[Ivan]

8 hours ago, fookisan said:

Not going to argue with you if you don’t understand that you can’t put a bunch of young players against one of the best team in MLS

LAFC also fielded a pretty young team.  Caps got steamrolled.

[Corazon]

I agree with Obinna, yes he was single handily responsible for a couple of the goals but so were some other players.  The midfield had holes that left the backline out to dry.  Mind you both goals on Gutierrez had nothing to do with others besides him being beat in the air and 1v1.  We just need a larger sample size from him to really understand his quality. 

I agree that you can't fully take away from those apps and sites that rate players.  I saw Gutierrez was rated better than the goalie, the other 3 defenders and the two starting defensive midfielders.  He probably made more passes and interceptions that put his score higher.  You could play a great game and score an unlucky own goal and then go to being the worst rated on the field.  Sometimes you have to take the ratings with a grain of salt.

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Corazon said:

Sometimes you have to take the ratings with a grain of salt.

But that doesn't happen enough because some posters cherry pick ratings to suit their narrative (this guy's good but that's guy's crap all the time).

Personally, I thought his defensive plays leading to goals were terrible.  Done.  Learn from them and on to the next match.

[Acid-Tone]

18 hours ago, fookisan said:

I will give you that MDS plays young Canadians but some of his decisions are mind boggling 

you want to play young players but they have to be put in a position to succeed not get beaten 4-0 in the first 14 mins of a match

Who exactly do you think MDS should have played at the back, that he didn't?

He can only play those who he has available, no?   

[Club Linesman]

Send last nights tape to Chile’s National Team manager and he no longer has 2 options.  I know he played better in previous games but I just watched last nights game and he was horrendous as were most of the Caps.

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Club Linesman said:

Send last nights tape to Chile’s National Team manager and he no longer has 2 options.  I know he played better in previous games but I just watched last nights game and he was horrendous as were most of the Caps.

The really sad part is one of our dedicated centre backs was equally as bad.  Maybe you could blame it on zonal marking, but Cornelius was caught watching BWP kick it in the net, twice.  Nothing about the back line last night made me feel good about Canada’s defensive prospects.  

[fookisan]

5 hours ago, Acid-Tone said:

Who exactly do you think MDS should have played at the back, that he didn't?

He can only play those who he has available, no?   

He could have started owusu rose godoy and even their best player in the last few games in Montero. All those guys came in in the second half and made their game more stable. 

 

[Northvansteve]

Based on his Whitecap performances so far, here's what I see from Gutierrez:

- passes the ball extremely well - his passing and crosses are remarkably pinpoint, well-placed and perfectly weighted (check out how many times his passes stay on the ground and end up perfectly on the feet of his teammate)

- his speed going forward is only average or slightly above average - he's no Adekugbe when it comes to attacking speed

- he creates offense with smart passing and well-timed counter-attacks, and is smart with the ball in the final third

- defensively, his positioning is generally good - he doesn't get caught out as often as Ali Adnan (the Whitecaps starting LB)

- he is weak in the air - getting easily outjumped by Dejan Jakovic on the first LAFC goal, for example

- he seems to win his share of 50-50 balls even though he is slighter than some of his opponents

- his one-on-one defense against a speedy opponent with skilled feet is his most glaring weakness at the moment - something he will absolutely need to improve if he's going to be a starter at the MLS level, never mind the international level

- overall, he has a chance to be in the mix as a potential starter at LB for Canada, but the performance against the speedy latin american LAFC attackers was concerning

I would start Adekugbe ahead of him at the moment, but Gutierrez has a chance to be a future starter for Canada and at the very least, a useful second option at the position.  

 

[archer21]

6 hours ago, Northvansteve said:

Based on his Whitecap performances so far, here's what I see from Gutierrez:

- passes the ball extremely well - his passing and crosses are remarkably pinpoint, well-placed and perfectly weighted (check out how many times his passes stay on the ground and end up perfectly on the feet of his teammate)

- his speed going forward is only average or slightly above average - he's no Adekugbe when it comes to attacking speed

- he creates offense with smart passing and well-timed counter-attacks, and is smart with the ball in the final third

- defensively, his positioning is generally good - he doesn't get caught out as often as Ali Adnan (the Whitecaps starting LB)

- he is weak in the air - getting easily outjumped by Dejan Jakovic on the first LAFC goal, for example

- he seems to win his share of 50-50 balls even though he is slighter than some of his opponents

- his one-on-one defense against a speedy opponent with skilled feet is his most glaring weakness at the moment - something he will absolutely need to improve if he's going to be a starter at the MLS level, never mind the international level

- overall, he has a chance to be in the mix as a potential starter at LB for Canada, but the performance against the speedy latin american LAFC attackers was concerning

I would start Adekugbe ahead of him at the moment, but Gutierrez has a chance to be a future starter for Canada and at the very least, a useful second option at the position.  

 

Didn’t see the game, why was he marking Jakovic on a corner? Can’t really blame him for being beat in the air by a CB that’s half a foot taller than him.

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, archer21 said:

Didn’t see the game, why was he marking Jakovic on a corner? Can’t really blame him for being beat in the air by a CB that’s half a foot taller than him.

Zonal marking, but you still have to be aware of the opponent entering  your space and as well as tracking the ball flight into it.  I'll have to re-watch it but I felt he should have done better on it.

Edited September 25, 2020 by BearcatSA

[archer21]

3 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Zonal marking, but you still have to be aware of the opponent entering  your space and as well as tracking the ball flight into it.  I'll have to re-watch it but I felt he should have done better on it.

Like I said, I didn't watch the game so I'm not totally letting him off the hook. For all I know, he could have made an obvious error. I've just never really been a fan of zonal marking on corner kicks for that reason. Why have a 5'8" guy marking a zone, when the attacking team can just put their biggest player in that zone and lob it to him? Its never made any sense to me.

[Kent]

It looks to me like Bair is at least equally at fault. He misjudged the flight of the ball. He could have dealt with it and his presence might have been why Gutierrez backed off instead of attacking the ball. I’m giving Gutierrez the benefit of the doubt with this interpretation.

But basically either could have gotten to it, but the one in front went forwards and the one in the back went backwards.

[Acid-Tone]

17 hours ago, fookisan said:

He could have started owusu rose godoy and even their best player in the last few games in Montero. All those guys came in in the second half and made their game more stable. 

 

I was specifically asking about those he could play at the back.  I agree with Godoy, however the Cornelius/Ranko partnership played pretty well in the previous couple of games. (both wins, btw)  No surprise that a manager who has tried many different lineups and formations might want to stick with one that had some relative success.

I think leaving Montero off to start was an attempt to manage his minutes, which I can understand.  That was their fourth game in a week and a half.  At this point, having him go down with an injury would be near catastrophic for this team.

 

I understand the frustration with MDS, however it's pretty obvious to me that in every game this team takes the field they do so with a significant talent deficit, and I don't think another manager is going to squeeze out much better results without an improved roster.

 

 

[PiedPilko]

32 minutes ago, Acid-Tone said:

I understand the frustration with MDS, however it's pretty obvious to me that in every game this team takes the field they do so with a significant talent deficit, and I don't think another manager is going to squeeze out much better results without an improved roster.

 

 

That seems to be the controversial part. Is this really that bad of a team?  Sometimes, their worst attributes just get blown up to 100. When they're doing their whole longball thing well, though, it works because they're actually kinda speedy up front.

Edited September 25, 2020 by PiedPilko

[Acid-Tone]

Obviously my assessment is subjective. 

However, based on the list that I viewed for the 2020 season,  the Whitecaps have the lowest team wage bill in the entire league.  And that included Yordy and Adnan, the former who is already gone, and the latter who's future seems cloudy and probably should be gone as well.

[BearcatSA]

On 9/25/2020 at 10:56 AM, Kent said:

It looks to me like Bair is at least equally at fault. He misjudged the flight of the ball. He could have dealt with it and his presence might have been why Gutierrez backed off instead of attacking the ball. I’m giving Gutierrez the benefit of the doubt with this interpretation.

But basically either could have gotten to it, but the one in front went forwards and the one in the back went backwards.

I re-watched that play and my interpretation is that he needed to stay with the man entering his marking zone (Jakovic) and at least make his header more difficult.

[PopePouri]

Having another shocker so far.