Scott Arfield

[Big_M]

brotherhood stuff is bullshit..you go to the world cup with your best..you cant start a 40 year old whos only competitive game in the last six months was against a third division turkish team and who clearly cant make the required runs just because hes a legend and helped qualify..meanwhile morocco fired the coach who qualified them because he didnt want to bring back ziyech (who had not played a minute in qualifiers) and a few others..he just played a small tiny role in this world cup right? they only got to semis right? no big deal..with better decisions we would have put belgium to sleep and gotten something from croatia or morocco or both..throw that crap in the garbage, learn and dont make those mistakes again

[Kadenge]

44 minutes ago, Big_M said:

brotherhood stuff is bullshit..you go to the world cup with your best..you cant start a 40 year old whos only competitive game in the last six months was against a third division turkish team and who clearly cant make the required runs just because hes a legend and helped qualify..meanwhile morocco fired the coach who qualified them because he didnt want to bring back ziyech (who had not played a minute in qualifiers) and a few others..he just played a small tiny role in this world cup right? they only got to semis right? no big deal..with better decisions we would have put belgium to sleep and gotten something from croatia or morocco or both..throw that crap in the garbage, learn and dont make those mistakes again

Don't fret there's only 3.5 yrs to WC2026 and we don't play any minnows this time around. Perhaps Scotty gets a transfer to Chelsea or PSG like Ziyech or Hakimi. I mean he's still under 40 right?

[TGAA_Star]

2 hours ago, Kadenge said:

Don't fret there's only 3.5 yrs to WC2026 and we don't play any minnows this time around. Perhaps Scotty gets a transfer to Chelsea or PSG like Ziyech or Hakimi. I mean he's still under 40 right?

Arfield would be 38 years old by the time the 2026 FIFA World Cup starts and who knows if he would even be in form to even be there and really why should he be taken by then when there will be players who are younger but players who would most likely be better than him by then

[Bison44]

Cripes, if Herdman didnt call him for the "win right now or else WC", why would he start calling him in for the next cycle when he is building for years from now?? 

[GasPed]

3 hours ago, TGAA_Star said:

Arfield would be 38 years old by the time the 2026 FIFA World Cup starts and who knows if he would even be in form to even be there and really why should he be taken by then when there will be players who are younger but players who would most likely be better than him by then

Love you, man.   Don't ever stop posting. 😘

[GasPed]

2 hours ago, Bison44 said:

Cripes, if Herdman didnt call him for the "win right now or else WC", why would he start calling him in for the next cycle when he is building for years from now?? 

I really don't think anyone is suggesting what you're refuting...

[Shway]

Ziyech is being compared to Arfield….. my lord….. wait, it’s Saturday night…. someone’s drinking. 

[Shway]

IMO Arfield is now allowed to return to the national team, go get his unwarranted praise back. Heck I would buy a jersey with his name on it, but he’s too selfish and his ego wouldn’t let him do it so he’ll stay retired from international.

I just can’t wait for him to retire totally at this point.

[prairiecanuck]

On 12/11/2022 at 12:00 AM, Shway said:

IMO Arfield is now allowed to return to the national team, go get his unwarranted praise back. Heck I would buy a jersey with his name on it, but he’s too selfish and his ego wouldn’t let him do it so he’ll stay retired from international.

I just can’t wait for him to retire totally at this point.

Scott never said one bad word about the program or the coach publicly.   Quite the contrary, he never had anything but positive things to say about the players, coaches and the direction of the program.  He was included on the provisional roster, so it's fair to assume he was the emergency call if injury had struck.  When asked directly about his situation, even though he was on his way out, he took the high road and said you keep certain things in house and was thankful for the time he spent on the the national team.  Berhalter by comparison took the other path and through Gio Reyna under the bus. 

The Arfield chapter has closed.  He represented us in the 2018 cylce, was part of a pretty significant win in 2019.  Can't we afford the player the same level of dignity he's shown the program.  Thanks for your service Scottie.  I wish you and your family all the best.  Your chapter is closed, but you'll always be part of the alumni. 

[Ottawafan]

On 12/10/2022 at 5:53 PM, Big_M said:

brotherhood stuff is bullshit..

This. 100%. 

[Shway]

37 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

This. 100%. 

@Big_M
No it’s not.

Henry could’ve taken Waterman or Cornelius spot at the WC, but forfeited it so that another guy could go…. And not play. IIRC Henry was part of every camp, and if not missed very few on our road to qualifying. Definitely deserving of his spot.

That display showed exactly what the brotherhood is, and he is also part of the senior leadership. Is that not what you would expect to see in a brotherhood?

Its a different culture in the team, that some simply just can’t relate too.

 What we do know is that Arfield wasn’t apart of it. So he can say one thing in the media, and act another…same goes for Herdman.

[Stryker911]

6 minutes ago, Shway said:

@Big_M
No it’s not.

Henry could’ve taken Waterman or Cornelius spot at the WC, but forfeited it so that another guy could go…. And not play. IIRC Henry was part of every camp, and if not missed very few on our road to qualifying. Definitely deserving of his spot.

That display showed exactly what the brotherhood is, and he is also part of the senior leadership. Is that not what you would expect to see in a brotherhood?

Its a different culture in the team, that some simply just can’t relate too.

 What we do know is that Arfield wasn’t apart of it. So he can say one thing in the media, and act another…same goes for Herdman.

Ya, good thing Henry did that. Waterman abd Cornelius were gamechanging cheerleaders for us.

[Bigandy]

On 12/10/2022 at 3:53 PM, Big_M said:

brotherhood stuff is bullshit..you go to the world cup with your best..you cant start a 40 year old whos only competitive game in the last six months was against a third division turkish team and who clearly cant make the required runs just because hes a legend and helped qualify..meanwhile morocco fired the coach who qualified them because he didnt want to bring back ziyech (who had not played a minute in qualifiers) and a few others..he just played a small tiny role in this world cup right? they only got to semis right? no big deal..with better decisions we would have put belgium to sleep and gotten something from croatia or morocco or both..throw that crap in the garbage, learn and dont make those mistakes again

This is absolutely nonsense. The brotherhood stuff is not bullshit and does not exist in the way that you are implying it does. 

What the brotherhood is, is a commtiment to the program. That we fight together and have a common goal. Our stars will play vs bermuda or mexico.... it doesnt matter who the opposition is. We celebrate each players club success rather than having cliques. The brotherhood stopped all the divides in the squad and made us a team.

What the brotherhood isnt - a get a free spot on the squad to qatar. Can you name one player who has benefited in this way? Hutch was played as a tactical choice. He was ohenomenal vs morocco. The staq injury really hurt us vs croatia as did playing only 2 cm's. This was a tactical mistake, not a brotherhood mistake. As for arfield, he was not included because he IS retired. Why is this even a debate? The squad doesnt want him back, the coach doesnt want him back, why would scott want to come back? He clearly knows hes not liked (he has seen the tweets from guys like hoilett.  

The brotherhood is not responsible for scott arfield not fitting our squad culture, nor the fact that he chose to retire. The brotherhood is not responsible for giving "good will" spots on our squad. 

[InglewoodJack]

On 12/10/2022 at 5:53 PM, Big_M said:

brotherhood stuff is bullshit..you go to the world cup with your best..you cant start a 40 year old whos only competitive game in the last six months was against a third division turkish team and who clearly cant make the required runs just because hes a legend and helped qualify..meanwhile morocco fired the coach who qualified them because he didnt want to bring back ziyech (who had not played a minute in qualifiers) and a few others..he just played a small tiny role in this world cup right? they only got to semis right? no big deal..with better decisions we would have put belgium to sleep and gotten something from croatia or morocco or both..throw that crap in the garbage, learn and dont make those mistakes again

I also agree that we should've called up our in-prime midfielder that plays for Chelsea. An oversight from Herdman, I'm sure.

[costarg]

10 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

This is absolutely nonsense. The brotherhood stuff is not bullshit and does not exist in the way that you are implying it does. 

What the brotherhood is, is a commtiment to the program. That we fight together and have a common goal. Our stars will play vs bermuda or mexico.... it doesnt matter who the opposition is. We celebrate each players club success rather than having cliques. The brotherhood stopped all the divides in the squad and made us a team.

What the brotherhood isnt - a get a free spot on the squad to qatar. Can you name one player who has benefited in this way? Hutch was played as a tactical choice. He was ohenomenal vs morocco. The staq injury really hurt us vs croatia as did playing only 2 cm's. This was a tactical mistake, not a brotherhood mistake. As for arfield, he was not included because he IS retired. Why is this even a debate? The squad doesnt want him back, the coach doesnt want him back, why would scott want to come back? He clearly knows hes not liked (he has seen the tweets from guys like hoilett.  

The brotherhood is not responsible for scott arfield not fitting our squad culture, nor the fact that he chose to retire. The brotherhood is not responsible for giving "good will" spots on our squad. 

I don't agree.  1- Arfield is not retired, he said he was available and was on the provisional squad.  2- This whole thing started cause he missed a window during a freaking world wide pandemic.  We don't know the reason, could've been his best friends wedding or a nieces baptism or maybe his wife was just overwhelmed with 3 kids at home and panicked.  Brotherhood does not mean give up everything else to go play an easy game in St Kitts, there is give and take and understanding that has to go both ways.

Now if there is a locker room issue, that's a different story.  However I've never seen anything from the man to think he isn't the absolute top pro he seems like during interviews and on the pitch.  How did he ever get the armband if he's that toxic?

Either way, I do agree the story is over, but it's ok for us to feel robbed and annoyed.  Cause he is exactly what we were missing in the midfield.

[RS]

1 hour ago, Stryker911 said:

Ya, good thing Henry did that. Waterman abd Cornelius were gamechanging cheerleaders for us.

So Henry's actions would've only been valid if he gave up his spot for someone better?

[jonovision]

4 hours ago, prairiecanuck said:

Scott never said one bad word about the program or the coach publicly.   Quite the contrary, he never had anything but positive things to say about the players, coaches and the direction of the program.  He was included on the provisional roster, so it's fair to assume he was the emergency call if injury had struck.  When asked directly about his situation, even though he was on his way out, he took the high road and said you keep certain things in house and was thankful for the time he spent on the the national team.  Berhalter by comparison took the other path and through Gio Reyna under the bus. 

The Arfield chapter has closed.  He represented us in the 2018 cylce, was part of a pretty significant win in 2019.  Can't we afford the player the same level of dignity he's shown the program.  Thanks for your service Scottie.  I wish you and your family all the best.  Your chapter is closed, but you'll always be part of the alumni. 

How many CONCACAF away games has he played, total, outside of Canada and the USA, if you had to guess? 

[Ottawafan]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

@Big_M
No it’s not.

Henry could’ve taken Waterman or Cornelius spot at the WC, but forfeited it so that another guy could go…. And not play. IIRC Henry was part of every camp, and if not missed very few on our road to qualifying. Definitely deserving of his spot.

That display showed exactly what the brotherhood is, and he is also part of the senior leadership. Is that not what you would expect to see in a brotherhood?

Its a different culture in the team, that some simply just can’t relate too.

 What we do know is that Arfield wasn’t apart of it. So he can say one thing in the media, and act another…same goes for Herdman.

My brotherhood comment was in relation to the dissent in the squad directed towards one player. 

[Bigandy]

2 hours ago, costarg said:

I don't agree.  1- Arfield is not retired, he said he was available and was on the provisional squad.  2- This whole thing started cause he missed a window during a freaking world wide pandemic.  We don't know the reason, could've been his best friends wedding or a nieces baptism or maybe his wife was just overwhelmed with 3 kids at home and panicked.  Brotherhood does not mean give up everything else to go play an easy game in St Kitts, there is give and take and understanding that has to go both ways.

Now if there is a locker room issue, that's a different story.  However I've never seen anything from the man to think he isn't the absolute top pro he seems like during interviews and on the pitch.  How did he ever get the armband if he's that toxic?

Either way, I do agree the story is over, but it's ok for us to feel robbed and annoyed.  Cause he is exactly what we were missing in the midfield.

1 - Arfield is 100% retired from the national team. its been announced and there has never been any official confirmation to suggest otherwise. He did not say he was available. He answered a difficult interview question by saying something along the lines of " you never know what can happen". This is basically an interview statement that is not controversial and doesnt say or mean anything. Being on a provisional list of 50 players means nothing. Our depth is so low that putting arfield on the list is not a big deal as we don't have anyone else who could realistically take that spot. If you were in herdmans shoes, its a 0 risk decision to put him on the list. IF some catastrophic event happened and we lost all our CM's, you at least can choose between arfield and some kid playing CPL. 

2 - There is give and take. Hutchinson has benefited from this as he has missed some games with canada. However, you are now making up random excuses for him. Surely Herdman and the players would not hate him if he had legitimate reasons and was interested in both give and take. It clearly points to Arfield being a taker and not a giver. where exactly is the give if arfield only shows up to the fair weather types of games. Furthermore, there is something to be said about sacrificing personal things for the greater good. How can 26 other players make it to every game they get called to but arfield has personal issues everytime there is an unfavourable game. If everyone else is willing to sacrifice, then why would scott get a free pass? 

3 - No offence but i dont think you are the best person to judge his lockerroom behaviour. I will trust what guys like hoillet say about arfield. Also, there are many examples of players who have been given the armband and then later became toxic. Lockerrooms can be fluid, personalities can clash over time etc. What once was, does not mean it always will be. 

4- Highly disagree that he is exactly what we needed. Herdman wanted to play a 2 man midfield. Arfield would not suit that. so in a 3-4-3 he would have to play as a winger in the front 3. Buchanan, hoillet, davies, david/ larin are all more suited to playing there than arfield. IF hypothetically, john would decide to change our shape to accomodate arfield (which would never happen because arfield is not good enough compared to the rest of our squad to build our tactics around him), then maybe we could play a 3-5-2 and arfield would play as the CAM. This means buchanan and davies play as wingbacks and we are much more vulnerable defensively, or we drop buchanan. Buchanan and davies are way more important to the team than arfield so again, its unlikely we change our shape to accomodate scotty. Lets also acknowledge that this isnt the same arfield who played in the prem. 

[costarg]

2 hours ago, Bigandy said:

1 - Arfield is 100% retired from the national team. its been announced and there has never been any official confirmation to suggest otherwise. He did not say he was available. He answered a difficult interview question by saying something along the lines of " you never know what can happen". This is basically an interview statement that is not controversial and doesnt say or mean anything. Being on a provisional list of 50 players means nothing. Our depth is so low that putting arfield on the list is not a big deal as we don't have anyone else who could realistically take that spot. If you were in herdmans shoes, its a 0 risk decision to put him on the list. IF some catastrophic event happened and we lost all our CM's, you at least can choose between arfield and some kid playing CPL. 

2 - There is give and take. Hutchinson has benefited from this as he has missed some games with canada. However, you are now making up random excuses for him. Surely Herdman and the players would not hate him if he had legitimate reasons and was interested in both give and take. It clearly points to Arfield being a taker and not a giver. where exactly is the give if arfield only shows up to the fair weather types of games. Furthermore, there is something to be said about sacrificing personal things for the greater good. How can 26 other players make it to every game they get called to but arfield has personal issues everytime there is an unfavourable game. If everyone else is willing to sacrifice, then why would scott get a free pass? 

3 - No offence but i dont think you are the best person to judge his lockerroom behaviour. I will trust what guys like hoillet say about arfield. Also, there are many examples of players who have been given the armband and then later became toxic. Lockerrooms can be fluid, personalities can clash over time etc. What once was, does not mean it always will be. 

4- Highly disagree that he is exactly what we needed. Herdman wanted to play a 2 man midfield. Arfield would not suit that. so in a 3-4-3 he would have to play as a winger in the front 3. Buchanan, hoillet, davies, david/ larin are all more suited to playing there than arfield. IF hypothetically, john would decide to change our shape to accomodate arfield (which would never happen because arfield is not good enough compared to the rest of our squad to build our tactics around him), then maybe we could play a 3-5-2 and arfield would play as the CAM. This means buchanan and davies play as wingbacks and we are much more vulnerable defensively, or we drop buchanan. Buchanan and davies are way more important to the team than arfield so again, its unlikely we change our shape to accomodate scotty. Lets also acknowledge that this isnt the same arfield who played in the prem. 

1- Honestly, how many pro-athletes do you know that would skip the single biggest event of their careers just cause they didn't feel like it?  There is a part of the story we don't know, and that's fine.  Everything we've read leads us to believe he was axed.  But we've seen crazier things happen than see retired athletes un-retire.

2 & 3 - Hate is intense, and you exagerate with the "arfield has personal issues everytime there is an unfavourable game".  Where did you pull that out of?  We need to keep things real.  I just don't see how someone goes from captain and one of the best players to banished without any explanation or reason.  I'm a big fan of transparency, I feel sweeping it under the rug at this level is just bizarre.  I don't think that would fly in soccer nations.  Seriously, what could be soo bad?  he slept with another players or Herdmans' wife?

4- As a massive Herdman fan, only the worst coaches use a system without tailoring it to the available players and the opposition.  2 strikers at this level instead of shoring up the backline and midfield was ridiculous.  If that was indeed Herdman's thinking, then he has to go.

Peace man - I enjoy the exchange, hope it's not coming out the wrong way.

[Bigandy]

19 minutes ago, costarg said:

1- Honestly, how many pro-athletes do you know that would skip the single biggest event of their careers just cause they didn't feel like it?  There is a part of the story we don't know, and that's fine.  Everything we've read leads us to believe he was axed.  But we've seen crazier things happen than see retired athletes un-retire.

2 & 3 - Hate is intense, and you exagerate with the "arfield has personal issues everytime there is an unfavourable game".  Where did you pull that out of?  We need to keep things real.  I just don't see how someone goes from captain and one of the best players to banished without any explanation or reason.  I'm a big fan of transparency, I feel sweeping it under the rug at this level is just bizarre.  I don't think that would fly in soccer nations.  Seriously, what could be soo bad?  he slept with another players or Herdmans' wife?

4- As a massive Herdman fan, only the worst coaches use a system without tailoring it to the available players and the opposition.  2 strikers at this level instead of shoring up the backline and midfield was ridiculous.  If that was indeed Herdman's thinking, then he has to go.

Peace man - I enjoy the exchange, hope it's not coming out the wrong way.

1- I agree that many athletes un-retire. My point was that arfield has officially retired. There are reasons to believe he was axed, but arfield is retired and until he un-retires, it seems silly to debate that he should play for canada. 
 

2&3 - Hate is intense. I should have said "disliked". Good point. 
As for "personal issues everytime there is an unfavourable game", i am referring to the fact that arfield has only ever played in central america once. Right after his debut for canada, he played in hondourous and then never again in central america. I think he committed to Canada and had no idea what concacaf is all about. He went to central america and refused to go there again. Had he known at the time what hondouros was like, I bet he wouldnt have travelled to that game either. This is keeping it real. He legit skipped every single game in central america. We can debate the semantics of what "personal reasons" are, but he made a reason to skip every single game in central america. Refusing to play in bad conditions and allowing your teammates to suffer without you, while you are the captain, is bad enough that I would never want to have him in my lockerroom. It appears the team also felt that way. Imagine getting piss dumped on you, getting kicked constantly, being kept up all night at hotels, no AC, no working elevators etc etc and then you find out that the guy who refused to stand besides you during the tough times is now going to the world cup and you dont get to go - even though you did all the work to get there. To me, that is what is so bad about arfield. A man who is unwilling to stand besides his brothers is not one of the brothers. 

4- Agreed on 2 strikers at this level. But if arfield is on the pitch then the only option is to play him as a winger or change to a 3-5-2 and play him as the attacking mid (assuming we stick to a back 3. Theres no way that herdman would go to back 4 at this world cup). My point is that I don't think arfield is the missing link for our squad. I think we need a top quality CB (obviously). The other link id preference over arfield is a box to box or true CDM next to staq. Hutch was our best option at that but he struggled with fitness. Arfield cant play in a 2 cm formation. If i had to choose between a midfield of Staq, quality CDM and oso vs staq hutch/MAK and arfield, I would choose the first. Which is why I don't think he was exactly what we needed. However, his abilities as a player is certainly evident and his individual talent on paper would make our squad better.   

I think youve made some great points and none have come off the wrong way. I hope its the same from me towards you as i realize I am being confrontational about this topic. I love discussing and debating this team and love that you may view things different than me and we can discuss it!! 

[DeRo_Is_King]

On 12/10/2022 at 5:53 PM, Big_M said:

brotherhood stuff is bullshit..you go to the world cup with your best..you cant start a 40 year old whos only competitive game in the last six months was against a third division turkish team and who clearly cant make the required runs just because hes a legend and helped qualify..meanwhile morocco fired the coach who qualified them because he didnt want to bring back ziyech (who had not played a minute in qualifiers) and a few others..he just played a small tiny role in this world cup right? they only got to semis right? no big deal..with better decisions we would have put belgium to sleep and gotten something from croatia or morocco or both..throw that crap in the garbage, learn and dont make those mistakes again

While I think Hutchinson was still one of our better options at midfield, I get your frustration. If I'm thinking about who you take away, Arfield for Kaye would have been a massive upgrade. 

[Obinna]

Didn't really like the Arfield takes from Galindo and AGR on the Northern Futbol podcast (episode 101?).

I love them both for their intelligent views on the game, and I do agree with them on Arfield in general, but it was the manner in which they went about it that I never liked. Yes Peter is right that Arfield is in decline, I have read articles from the Rangers POV saying the same. No problem there. But then Alex responds with "two words - David Wotherspoon", and then they both proceed to fawn over the "spoony chop" before one of them (Alex?) suggets/implies that Wotherspoon is a better player than Arfield anyways, which sounded to me like sour grapes.

All of it sounded a bit too much like "Spoony is the man because he chose us and Arfield ditched us so good riddance", which is the attitude reflected by some parts of Canadian fandom, so I get it. It just rubs me the wrong way because it is just favouring the guy you like. Where is the analysis in that?

Again, love their work in general and I rarely miss a podcast. And I agree there's a good argument that Arfield's stock is at an all-time low. I just prefer it when their takes (or anyone's takes) are guided by analysis and/or stats and not emotion. Sure, by all means undervalue Arfield as a player based on his play, but don't do it based on how his time with the national team ended.

And this is no disrespect to Spoony. He deserves all the credit in the world, but same thing. Let's not overvalue Wotherspoon as a player because he stuck with the team and Arfield didn't. 

Not going to single out Ben here. Not really familiar with his work so I don't have any expectations.

[Obinna]

Don't want to belabour my point, but want to add that...

Arfield is at the age where he supposedly can't get around the park and be effective for 90 minutes, thus he wasn't that useful to us anyways, but Wotherspoon (the guy who replaced him in our minds), only played a handful of minutes anyways, against Morocco, when we were already eliminated, so it's not as if Wotherspoon brought something to the field that Arfield couldn't (spoony chop aside of course 😁). 

Arfield is basically useless and all he can do now a days (besides playing badly) is pop up here and there with the odd goal, but to the credit of the Arfield truthers - that's exactly  what we needed this world cup.

Edited December 13, 2022 by Obinna

[Bertuzzi44]

5 hours ago, Obinna said:

Don't want to belabour my point, but want to add that...

Arfield is at the age where he supposedly can't get around the park and be effective for 90 minutes, thus he wasn't that useful to us anyways, but Wotherspoon (the guy who replaced him in our minds), only played a handful of minutes anyways, against Morocco, when we were already eliminated, so it's not as if Wotherspoon brought something to the field that Arfield couldn't (spoony chop aside of course 😁). 

Arfield is basically useless and all he can do now a days (besides playing badly) is pop up here and there with the odd goal, but to the credit of the Arfield truthers - that's exactly  what we needed this world cup.

Arfield haters gonna hate, but Scott is getting minutes at a pretty high level and has always played well for Canada. a midfield 3 of Eustáquio, Arfield, and Oso/Hutch would have been very good for us I think. 

And when you say "can't get around the park or be useful for 90 minutes" you are basically describing Hutchinson. We should have left him at home as well? Arfield is/was playing more and at a higher level than Hutchinson so your argument here that Scott would have been useless is pretty thin.