The Real Marc Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Obinna said: The performance was actually decent. It was the results that were disappointing (and that's because the performance was good). 0-1 Belgium 1-4 Croatia 1-2 Morocco If our performance was poor, I don't think these results would have been nearly as disappointing, personally. That's how I view it at least. Hopefully he sees it that way, too. I get that us fans divide results from performance (when convenient) but I don't think others do and wouldn't expect fence sitters to think that way. We scored a single goal. We couldn't knock one in as we battered a creaking Belgium (and still lost), took a half to even get into the game against Morocco (and lost), and completely flubbed the gameplan getting sliced and diced by Croatia (and lost big time.) I would agree, then and now, we had a hard group. I certainly never thought we'd escape from the group. But those results are not indicative of a good performance. Was it Johnston that said we shocked the world against Belgium? Nope. People expected us to lose and we did. Love that guy but that was such a loser mentality thing to say. Probably won't close the door in Koleosho-esque decisions but how could these results help? Edited January 4, 2023 by The Real Marc johnyb 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 And here i thought the truth finally came out on the Arfield drama. 2/3 pages later and the truth is still out there..... Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Marc Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 We know the truth. The problem is that we cant handle the truth. Shway and narduch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bison44 Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 51 minutes ago, costarg said: And here i thought the truth finally came out on the Arfield drama. 2/3 pages later and the truth is still out there..... I dont think Mulder and Scully could get to the bottom of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 1 hour ago, The Real Marc said: I get that us fans divide results from performance (when convenient) but I don't think others do and wouldn't expect fence sitters to think that way. We scored a single goal. We couldn't knock one in as we battered a creaking Belgium (and still lost), took a half to even get into the game against Morocco (and lost), and completely flubbed the gameplan getting sliced and diced by Croatia (and lost big time.) I would agree, then and now, we had a hard group. I certainly never thought we'd escape from the group. But those results are not indicative of a good performance. Was it Johnston that said we shocked the world against Belgium? Nope. People expected us to lose and we did. Love that guy but that was such a loser mentality thing to say. Probably won't close the door in Koleosho-esque decisions but how could these results help? Curious to know... why would fans divide results from performances (when convenient) but others wouldn't - in particular the fence sitters? Didn't Herdman say his phone was ringing off the hook after the Belgium match? Agreed the take from Johnston was a bit too much. I get what he means (I think), but it comes off a little bit deluded (I mean, c'mon we lost). Like yourself I am sure, I sometimes fear this group drinks a little too much of their own kool aid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 10 hours ago, Obinna said: Curious to know... why would fans divide results from performances (when convenient) but others wouldn't - in particular the fence sitters? Didn't Herdman say his phone was ringing off the hook after the Belgium match? Agreed the take from Johnston was a bit too much. I get what he means (I think), but it comes off a little bit deluded (I mean, c'mon we lost). Like yourself I am sure, I sometimes fear this group drinks a little too much of their own kool aid. #kookaid Cheeta 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodgkiss Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Dest has very few minutes this campaign with Milan. He is usually a non-starter and sometimes doesn't come off the bench... He might have had a good trajectory but he has not really lived up to that expectation in 2022. In all honesty, I can see Milan (who have been playing well) loaning him to a lower league or a lower table team in Serie A. In fairness, Dest has been plagued by Covid and many injuries. What's Busio doing these days? Everyone was so high on him last year because he played for Venezia... narduch 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 Seems appropriate that this thread has become the catch-all for anything odd or irrelevant. johnyb and The Real Marc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 36 minutes ago, hodgkiss said: What's Busio doing these days? Everyone was so high on him last year because he played for Venezia... Going through their last 5 games he started once and was a sub 4 times. Venezia are terrible and look destined for Serie C at this point. hodgkiss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InglewoodJack Posted January 4, 2023 Share Posted January 4, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, The Real Marc said: I get that us fans divide results from performance (when convenient) but I don't think others do and wouldn't expect fence sitters to think that way. We scored a single goal. We couldn't knock one in as we battered a creaking Belgium (and still lost), took a half to even get into the game against Morocco (and lost), and completely flubbed the gameplan getting sliced and diced by Croatia (and lost big time.) I would agree, then and now, we had a hard group. I certainly never thought we'd escape from the group. But those results are not indicative of a good performance. Was it Johnston that said we shocked the world against Belgium? Nope. People expected us to lose and we did. Love that guy but that was such a loser mentality thing to say. Probably won't close the door in Koleosho-esque decisions but how could these results help? Which is a shame, because we should've scored that PK and at least drawn Belgium. If Atiba's header was 5mm lower, we would've drawn Morocco. I think there was a missed foul in the penalty area on Laryea somewhere in there too. That's two points, and our only loss coming against the team that ended the WC in 3rd. Not sure if hypothetical scenarios are loser talk, but a couple things go our way, and we're looking at the world cup in a completely different light. Maybe if Davies converts his PK, we play harder and Belgium doesn't score on that flukey run to end the first half. Agreed that those results definitely don't help with Koleosho. I've never bought in to the idea that anything other than results and opportunities affect a player's decision to commit. Don't particularly care that Koleosho's favourite player is Davies, or he had a very fun time in our camp or his mom is an italian montrealer who loves soccer or whatever. Players use their national team to elevate their club game. If Berhalter promised him a spot at the world cup, which would've given him two games he could've feasted in (Iran/Wales), a game against England, a game where every single scout in the world is watching, as well as a real chance to go to the knockout stages, he would've done that, or at the very least he should've done that, if the opportunity was offered to him. A copa america goal against Brazil or Argentina probably gets him a 30M transfer to a top team in a top league. Playing for Canada that gets washed against Paraguay does nothing for him. Bottom line is these guys want to play for the best clubs and earn the most money, and especially since we aren't a patriotic country with the richest soccer culture- not to mention LK is Canadian by technicality- I don't think there's any amount of soft power we can exert to get these guys to commit. We need results and a proven track record of getting our players on the radar of top teams. He's already playing for Espanyol, so I don't think he'll look at AJ going to Celtic or Kone going to Watford as a sign that the CANMNT can bring him club glory. If we showcased Kone so hard he got signed by Madrid, that's a different story. Edited January 4, 2023 by InglewoodJack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califax Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said: Seems appropriate that this thread has become the catch-all for anything odd or irrelevant. Came here for the Berhalter news and nothing. what gives? 😃 Edited January 5, 2023 by Califax jordan and johnyb 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 5, 2023 Share Posted January 5, 2023 7 minutes ago, Califax said: Came here for the Berhalter news and nothing. what gives? 😃 It's under the front porch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sechat23 Posted January 7, 2023 Share Posted January 7, 2023 On 1/4/2023 at 2:40 PM, InglewoodJack said: Which is a shame, because we should've scored that PK and at least drawn Belgium. If Atiba's header was 5mm lower, we would've drawn Morocco. I think there was a missed foul in the penalty area on Laryea somewhere in there too. That's two points, and our only loss coming against the team that ended the WC in 3rd. Not sure if hypothetical scenarios are loser talk, but a couple things go our way, and we're looking at the world cup in a completely different light. Maybe if Davies converts his PK, we play harder and Belgium doesn't score on that flukey run to end the first half. Agreed that those results definitely don't help with Koleosho. I've never bought in to the idea that anything other than results and opportunities affect a player's decision to commit. Don't particularly care that Koleosho's favourite player is Davies, or he had a very fun time in our camp or his mom is an italian montrealer who loves soccer or whatever. Players use their national team to elevate their club game. If Berhalter promised him a spot at the world cup, which would've given him two games he could've feasted in (Iran/Wales), a game against England, a game where every single scout in the world is watching, as well as a real chance to go to the knockout stages, he would've done that, or at the very least he should've done that, if the opportunity was offered to him. A copa america goal against Brazil or Argentina probably gets him a 30M transfer to a top team in a top league. Playing for Canada that gets washed against Paraguay does nothing for him. Bottom line is these guys want to play for the best clubs and earn the most money, and especially since we aren't a patriotic country with the richest soccer culture- not to mention LK is Canadian by technicality- I don't think there's any amount of soft power we can exert to get these guys to commit. We need results and a proven track record of getting our players on the radar of top teams. He's already playing for Espanyol, so I don't think he'll look at AJ going to Celtic or Kone going to Watford as a sign that the CANMNT can bring him club glory. If we showcased Kone so hard he got signed by Madrid, that's a different story. Like it or not LK is not in a hurry to commit to the US or Canada. His going to look at the team on paper and the teams they are playing for. Canada needs to stop using we are better than the US and Mexico because of WCQ. Canada has a bad track record in World Cup, NL, and Gold Cup. People have to understand that if LK can get minutes in the next few sessions for Espanyol he could be back up or pass Weah in the starting 11. Also saying his good friends with Davies and his having fun with Canada is not a good reason to commit to Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Free to find a new club, wonder if he heads back to Falkirk for a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VinceA Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, jordan said: Free to find a new club, wonder if he heads back to Falkirk for a few years. I haven't followed them that much in recent years but seeing Morelos leaving on a free after rejecting offers for him In the past, I wonder how poor he's gotten for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Still find it crazy he passed up on a world cup just to leave on a free transfer. He even had the opportunity to recommit in Jan 2022. The line was always he wanted to secure his club contract, which he did a few years ago. Guess he just wasn't interested in playing in a World Cup. grigorio, narduch, Jack1997 and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 It's Rangers that is involved. More than just a club, it's a way of life for some people. He played in a Europa League final so extending his time at Rangers possibly at the expense of the CMNT angle also had its moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 13 minutes ago, king1010 said: Still find it crazy he passed up on a world cup just to leave on a free transfer. He even had the opportunity to recommit in Jan 2022. The line was always he wanted to secure his club contract, which he did a few years ago. Guess he just wasn't interested in playing in a World Cup. He did not have a chance to recommit in Jan 2022. That would have been right after the world cup. Why would we ask him to join after the world cup even though hes retired, will obviously age out before the next world cup, and we didnt want him for any meaningful games. If you are talking about the rumours linking him to our WC squad prior to the WC then you have to see that those were just rumours. Arfield said the door is still open. Canada did not call him. He didnt pass up a world cup. He passed on world cup qualification and then snuck his nose out to see if he could get called up to the WC squad. He never had playing at the WC as an option. king1010 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympique_de_Marseille Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 24 minutes ago, Bigandy said: He did not have a chance to recommit in Jan 2022. That would have been right after the world cup. @Bigandy , I think you may have confused Jan 2022 and Jan 2023. Bigandy and Addona 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said: @Bigandy , I think you may have confused Jan 2022 and Jan 2023. 100% I am. Thanks for checking that. The sentiment still stands. Arfield wasnt offered a chance to join qualifying in the middle of the octagon in Jan 2022. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Bigandy said: He did not have a chance to recommit in Jan 2022. That would have been right after the world cup. Why would we ask him to join after the world cup even though hes retired, will obviously age out before the next world cup, and we didnt want him for any meaningful games. If you are talking about the rumours linking him to our WC squad prior to the WC then you have to see that those were just rumours. Arfield said the door is still open. Canada did not call him. He didnt pass up a world cup. He passed on world cup qualification and then snuck his nose out to see if he could get called up to the WC squad. He never had playing at the WC as an option. take a breath and think about what you just wrote. he passed up on wcq which in turn was passing up on the world cup. Had he joined our squad midway through the octo he would have been part of the world cup squad. up until may 2021 it was still his decision whether to jump back into the fold. It was ultimately his decision to not play in a world cup. On Scott Arfield: “He remains open minded on his international career. He needed that time to focus on Rangers. Nations League doesn’t motivate him that it would for young players. He’s a family man, I respect that.I think we will see him again or he makes the decision to retire” — Kristian Jack (@KristianJack) May 29, 2021 Edited May 23, 2023 by king1010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 5 minutes ago, king1010 said: take a breath and think about what you just wrote. he passed up on wcq which in turn was passying up on the world cup. Had he joined our squad midway through the octo he would have been part of the world cup squad. If you take a breath and give it some context youll understand the sentiment of my post. Does every player who turns down WCQ turn down a WC. No because there is no guarantee that we would have qualified. His decision may be different if he knew canada would qualify but he didnt. Therefore he turned down wcq which is a chance to go to the world cup. Thats very different from turning down a call up to the world cup. Hindsight is 20/20 but lets not act like arfield knew we were going to qualify and he still quit on us. He also was never ever ever going to join our squad midway. CMNT turned him down. In jan 2022 it was very very clear that arfield is no longer welcome on our squad. Let's not act like we presented him an offer in Jan 2022 and he declined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Bigandy said: If you take a breath and give it some context youll understand the sentiment of my post.Does every player who turns down WCQ turn down a WC. No because there is no guarantee that we would have qualified. His decision may be different if he knew canada would qualify but he didnt. Therefore he turned down wcq which is a chance to go to the world cup. Thats very different from turning down a call up to the world cup. Hindsight is 20/20 but lets not act like arfield knew we were going to qualify and he still quit on us. He also was never ever ever going to join our squad midway. CMNT turned him down. In jan 2022 it was very very clear that arfield is no longer welcome on our squad. Let's not act like we presented him an offer in Jan 2022 and he declined. source? also Arfield wasn't "every player". He was the captain. If he was present during WCQ he would've been at the WorldCup. Edited May 23, 2023 by king1010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Just now, king1010 said: source? Source for what? That he wasnt ever called up? Thats pretty evident by every single roster we published during WCQ. Wheres your source for him turning us down in Jan 2022? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king1010 Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Just now, Bigandy said: Source for what? That he wasnt ever called up? Thats pretty evident by every single roster we published during WCQ. Wheres your source for him turning us down in Jan 2022? source that he was never going to join our squad midway through wcq? Because I just provided Kristian Jack as a source that he was open minded as of May 2021 which was well after the second round of WCQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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