Scott Arfield

[johnyb]

11 minutes ago, Obinna said:

What about Wotherspoon? By that logic he is less tested than Arfield. Yet he'll likely be picked for Qatar as he will be back to playing against those lowly SPL teams in no time.

And I am fine with Wotherspoon getting picked over Arfield, just to be clear, because Arfield is retired. I just take issue with some of the opinions in this thread, including yours, because they are feeding this narrative that Arfield may not be good enough, or prepared enough, etc. It's all a bunch of B.S. and I don't buy any of it.

Bottom line is that Arfield would absolutely be good enough for this team if he was available, but the thing is he is not available, for reasons only him and Herdman know, and that's a little disappointing but fine by me. It is what it is and we got through qualifiers more than fine without him.

I just strongly disagree with the idea that we are a more talented team without him, because that is blatently false. Now if you guys want to argue he is not good for team moral or whatever, and that team spirit is better without him, that's another conversation entirely.

And that would be purely be a conjecture-based conversation. Nobody on this board, maybe aside from a few parents, know the inner workings of this team as far as Arfield wrecking team spirit goes.

Wotherspoon plays against 2 good teams in Scotland, where as Arfield only has to play against 1. 😅

[jonovision]

14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

What about Wotherspoon? By that logic he is less tested than Arfield. Yet he'll likely be picked for Qatar as he will be back to playing against those lowly SPL teams in no time.

And I am fine with Wotherspoon getting picked over Arfield, just to be clear, because Arfield is retired. I just take issue with some of the opinions in this thread, including yours, because they are feeding this narrative that Arfield may not be good enough, or prepared enough, etc. It's all a bunch of B.S. and I don't buy any of it.

Bottom line is that Arfield would absolutely be good enough for this team if he was available, but the thing is he is not available, for reasons only him and Herdman know, and that's a little disappointing but fine by me. It is what it is and we got through qualifiers more than fine without him.

I just strongly disagree with the idea that we are a more talented team without him, because that is blatently false. Now if you guys want to argue he is not good for team moral or whatever, and that team spirit is better without him, that's another conversation entirely.

And that would be purely be a conjecture-based conversation. Nobody on this board, maybe aside from a few parents, know the inner workings of this team as far as Arfield wrecking team spirit goes.

I don't agree that Arfield is clearly better than most of the options we have available. He is in the mix with Kaye, Osorio, Kone, etc. When I think about the best matches Canada has played in the last two decades, he has been involved in few of them. He probably makes the team on merit, but he retired from international football.

I don't think Wotherspoon has really made much of a case for himself with his play for club or country, but he has thrown his hat into the ring and Herdman seems to value him.

And I'm always going to have less time for people who have joined CanMNT as a fallback option when their country of choice wouldn't have them. Maybe this is xenophobic or old fashioned but I can't change how I feel about that.

[Obinna]

14 minutes ago, jonovision said:

I don't agree that Arfield is clearly better than most of the options we have available. He is in the mix with Kaye, Osorio, Kone, etc. When I think about the best matches Canada has played in the last two decades, he has been involved in few of them. He probably makes the team on merit, but he retired from international football.

I don't think Wotherspoon has really made much of a case for himself with his play for club or country, but he has thrown his hat into the ring and Herdman seems to value him.

And I'm always going to have less time for people who have joined CanMNT as a fallback option when their country of choice wouldn't have them. Maybe this is xenophobic or old fashioned but I can't change how I feel about that.

Pretty much agree with all of that. If I were being picky I would quibble about Kaye. He's been poor for a while now, including costing us points away to CR with his red card, but overall there's nothing here I would fuss about. You say Arfield would make the team on merit, that's good enough for me. 

As for the xenophobic thing, don't worry about how you feel on that brother. It may be old fashioned, but that doesn't mean it is bad. There is nothing wrong with favouring players who put Canada first. In fact, I wouldn't even call that xenophobic to be honest, because it's not even a matter of prejudice against someone from another country. Borjan is technically from another country, but we were his first choice (at least I always felt so) and I am sure you have all the time in the world for him. Same could be said for Davies and David.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Obinna

[Califax]

I mean I think it's kinda xenophobic but it's not malicious so I don't care. It is an underlying theme here. If he played his youth ball at Foothills instead of Falkirk, this thread would be half the size. 

I take more offence with the idea that Kaye is on level with Arfield and Kone. I feel fully comfortable saying it now that Kaye shouldn't be on the roster.

[jonovision]

7 minutes ago, Califax said:

I mean I think it's kinda xenophobic but it's not malicious so I don't care. It is an underlying theme here. If he played his youth ball at Foothills instead of Falkirk, this thread would be half the size. 

I take more offence with the idea that Kaye is on level with Arfield and Kone. I feel fully comfortable saying it now that Kaye shouldn't be on the roster.

I mean, these are Canadians representing Canada. It's strange that some guys on the team will not have thought of themselves as Canadian or set foot in the country until well into their soccer careers.

It would be odd if we didn't view these sorts of players differently than most others.

[jonovision]

43 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Pretty much agree with all of that. If I were being picky I would quibble about Kaye. He's been poor for a while now, including costing us points away to CR with his red card, but overall there's nothing here I would fuss about. You say Arfield would make the team on merit, that's good enough for me. 

As for the xenophobic thing, don't worry about how you feel on that brother. It may be old fashioned, but that doesn't mean it is bad. There is nothing wrong with favouring players who put Canada first. In fact, I wouldn't even call that xenophobic to be honest, because it's not even a matter of prejudice against someone from another country. Borjan is technically from another country, but we were his first choice (at least I always felt so) and I am sure you have all the time in the world for him. Same could be said for Davies and David.

All of these players spent much (or all) of their youth in Canada. Arfield has resided in the UK his entire life.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

2 hours ago, jonovision said:

I mean, these are Canadians representing Canada. It's strange that some guys on the team will not have thought of themselves as Canadian or set foot in the country until well into their soccer careers.

It would be odd if we didn't view these sorts of players differently than most others.

It's modern football, I would doubt close to half of the Morocco team we face in November will have been born or played youth ball in Morocco.   I know for a fact some have never lived there. 

Edit: I can't know for a fact since the game has yet to happen 😄.  Their  lineups recently have included such players - would be more accurate. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[SpecialK]

Morocco’s starting goal keeper Bono was born in Montreal.

Edited October 6, 2022 by SpecialK

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, SpecialK said:

Morocco’s starting goal keeper Bono was born in Montreal.

He is actually one of the few I know that grew up in Morocco, along with Aguerd (who I only know because West Ham signed him) and En-Nesyri (who we played against last year). 

[SpursFlu]

Arfield definitely loses some points for (I guess, still not 100% sure what happened) choosing to no longer play for Canada. That's a perfectly reasonable perspective. I just rate him so much higher than all our other midfield players other than Eustaquio. Osorio is obviously having issues, Hutch is getting older by the second and having issues. Kone is unproven and plays deeper, MAK I don't really rate and plays deeper. Piette has stepped up and plays deeper.

I would just think them making it out of the group would be so amazing and all things considered Arfield would help dramatically. Even just off the bench. I don't know how that's even debatable 

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, jonovision said:

All of these players spent much (or all) of their youth in Canada. Arfield has resided in the UK his entire life.

Yes for sure. I don't blame you or anyone for feeling differently about Arfield due to not being a product of Canadian soccer, or due to Canada not being his first choice. I may not feel that strongly about it, but I get it and I don't think it is xenophobic at all. There is no malice in it. It would be strange NOT to prefer players who were produced by Canada, or picked Canada as a first choice. It only gets to be xenophobic once you prefer players who were born here, or originated from here full stop. Once the distinction is made that it's strictly a matter of being a product of Canadian Soccer, rather than having/not having the cultural trappings of a born/bred Canadian, it takes on a less/non xenophobic complexion.

And most importantly, the only thing I took issue with was the idea of Arfield not being good enough, but we are past that one. Although I mus admit I am slipping into @Califax territory when it comes to Kaye. I can easily be convinced Arfield is an upgrade at this point.

[RJB]

7 hours ago, Obinna said:

Okay so let's apply this logic to every player at a strong club then:

-Hutchinson's supposed success is because he plays for Besiktas.

-Davies supposed success is because he plays for Bayern.

-Osorio's supposed success is because he plays for Toronto FC. 

Is this fair to say? If so, we can just say this about any player, couldn't we? And if that isn't true for them, but is for Arfield, why is that? Why would Arfield's supposed success be somehow undeserved because he plays for Rangers, but not true for other guys winning at their clubs?

Clearly he is part of the success Rangers is having. He gets credit for that because he was a contributor. It's not as if the signed him and hr never played.

You know what actually, your point may hold true in the case of a backup goalie who plays for a winning club, but never actually plays and thus finds "success" without stepping on the field, but clearly that is not the case.

I read on this thread that Arfield deserves to be playing for Canada because he plays in the Champions League.  Nobody is trumpeting those players as deserving simply because they play for particular clubs.  But I read that about Arfield.

 

[dyslexic nam]

50 minutes ago, RJB said:

I read on this thread that Arfield deserves to be playing for Canada because he plays in the Champions League.  Nobody is trumpeting those players as deserving simply because they play for particular clubs.  But I read that about Arfield.

 

But that’s because they all do play for Canada so it would be a silly thing to claim.  The issue with Arfield is that he is playing at that level and isn’t - at a time when we could use him.  
 

EDIT: just to add, imagine if Hutch was still playing regularly at Besiktas and had retired.  Or if one of the young guns decided they weren’t interested in playing for international footy for Canada anymore.   Or if a high caliber MLS vet like Oso retired from the Nats while we still needed him.  People would be just as adamantly clamoring for them to come back and support the team in the WC.  This isn’t some unique petition being applied to Arfield just because he is at Rangers - it is the same thing that would happen to anyone of his calibre who was in his position (ie. Could make a big contribution but was choosing not to).  

Edited October 7, 2022 by dyslexic nam

[MauditYvon]

3 hours ago, RJB said:

Nobody is trumpeting those players as deserving simply because they play for particular clubs. 

You should go on Colyn’s thread, then.

[prairiecanuck]

On 10/6/2022 at 1:58 PM, jonovision said:

All of these players spent much (or all) of their youth in Canada. Arfield has resided in the UK his entire life.

so what you're saying is Koleosho really shouldn't be invited back to a Canadian camp right.  

[SpecialK]

Arfield starting vs Liverpool. Let’s get this page rolling 

[jordan]

Trademark run

[gwsmith63]

Some finish that!  BANG!

[Atlantic]

I am excited for the pending discussion on here 

[frmr]

Would ya look at that.

[SpecialK]

What a GOAL beautiful!!!!! Oh wait we don’t need him right ???? Suck it you Arfield haters ! Herdman- make the call !!!! 

[Ally McCoist]

I try to ignore this thread and somehow I'm always gutted and pulled back into it.  

COME BACK TO CANMNT SCOTTY 😥

[cornerkick]

I hope Herdman is watching this game….

[sebdeserio]

Did he not retire?? What am I missing here? Is the loss of morale from Hoilett and co worth calling him up if he didn't?

Edited October 12, 2022 by sebdeserio

[N-A]

That was a great Goal from Arfield and a Fantastic Celebration.