SoccMan Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 3 hours ago, anthony7 said: Completely wrong decision. Sean Johnson was the correct choice. Osorio has no leadership abilities. He’s either bitching at other players mistakes while making even worse ones. Not a professional either. Constantly misses plenty of time for TFC while always miraculously ready to play for Canada. At the end of the day, Herdman made the wrong decision. Let’s see if Herdman will show the same energy given to MAK and hold Osorio accountable for his performances/professionalism. The right and proper decision he has definitely earned it . RS, narduch, Unnamed Trialist and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doopy Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 ... legend. deserves it. Shway, SoccMan, Corazon and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 Article on FIFA website. https://www.fifa.com/fifaplus/en/tournaments/mens/worldcup/canadamexicousa2026/articles/jonathan-osorio-interview-toronto-fc-canada cornerkick, Corazon and SoccMan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cicero Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 On 1/23/2024 at 3:11 PM, SoccMan said: The right and proper decision he has definitely earned it . Does it even really matter? I mean, maybe a little psychologically for him, but for any team in general, does it really matter who is captain? I've never been on a team where the captain has any more authority or influence than the rest of the players just because they're the captain. They usually are already someone who is more vocal, and the captaincy is just an acknowledgement of that, but it plays basically zero role on the field. If someone else is a vocal leader, are they just going to shut up and defer to the captain? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 49 minutes ago, Cicero said: Does it even really matter? I mean, maybe a little psychologically for him, but for any team in general, does it really matter who is captain? I've never been on a team where the captain has any more authority or influence than the rest of the players just because they're the captain. They usually are already someone who is more vocal, and the captaincy is just an acknowledgement of that, but it plays basically zero role on the field. If someone else is a vocal leader, are they just going to shut up and defer to the captain? I doubt it. I think it is more an indication of a players standing with the club and the level of respect he has earned. Does it have a big impact on the field? Probably not. But does it matter? It does to the player. TOcanadafan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 1 hour ago, Cicero said: Does it even really matter? I mean, maybe a little psychologically for him, but for any team in general, does it really matter who is captain? I've never been on a team where the captain has any more authority or influence than the rest of the players just because they're the captain. They usually are already someone who is more vocal, and the captaincy is just an acknowledgement of that, but it plays basically zero role on the field. If someone else is a vocal leader, are they just going to shut up and defer to the captain? I doubt it. Fair points generally speaking, but Toronto doesn't seem to have that vocal leader anymore, so that part doesn't apply. If Osorio was given the armband with Bradley still around what you're saying would be applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 7 minutes ago, Obinna said: Fair points generally speaking, but Toronto doesn't seem to have that vocal leader anymore, so that part doesn't apply. If Osorio was given the armband with Bradley still around what you're saying would be applicable. It seems a better example is that Im sure davies has a voice for CMNT but hes not the captain. Vitoria was an on field leader vocally when he wasnt wearing the armband etc. Seems both CMNT (When all of atiba, borjan and vitoria retire) and TFC lack some strong vocal leaders. Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 (edited) 1 hour ago, Cicero said: Does it even really matter? I mean, maybe a little psychologically for him, but for any team in general, does it really matter who is captain? I've never been on a team where the captain has any more authority or influence than the rest of the players just because they're the captain. They usually are already someone who is more vocal, and the captaincy is just an acknowledgement of that, but it plays basically zero role on the field. If someone else is a vocal leader, are they just going to shut up and defer to the captain? I doubt it. It think in TFC's case it is quite important, and Herdman will make it more so. Clearly he'll be his man if there is any issue, and then all the rest know who to speak to about any question arising. I think he's the right material to live up to the task Considering what we saw with the Italians, doing their own thing, Bradley consenting it, then a captain who lost authority because of his age, his play, and his father being coach, there is a lot to sort out with the group. That podcast with Jiménez I referred to, he said there was no clear instructions from Bradley about certain things, the Italians chose to override decisions if there were, that caused cliques in the locker room. The other thing is that Oso knows how to speak with refs without gesticulating or seeming nervous, he has a good temperament. Just in reference to what @Bigandy says about the national team, I think we do have leaders, and quite a few. 6-7 guys who are not kids, who went through qualifying and a World Cup, played a Nations League final, they've been through a lot together. I think it is one of the things we are least lacking in. If we did not have Borjan or Vitória, I'd be fine with Osorio also being captain of the NT, then the guys, based on playing and seniority, would be Larin, Staq, I think Miller has leadership, Davies as he's maturing, then guys who may be on the fringe now, like Piette. Edited February 7 by Unnamed Trialist Obinna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 If you want a different perspective on the importance of team captains, read The Captain Class by Sam Walker. I wouldn't take it all in as gospel but it does give some interesting examples across a variety of teams sports. SF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kacbru Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 I haven't watched it yet, but heard good things: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebdeserio Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 15 minutes ago, kacbru said: I haven't watched it yet, but heard good things: It's shite no mention of Borjan and it supposedly includes all the World Cup captains. Only reason I watched it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shway Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 9 hours ago, sebdeserio said: It's shite no mention of Borjan and it supposedly includes all the World Cup captains. Only reason I watched it. You mean Atiba? sebdeserio 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 15 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said: It think in TFC's case it is quite important, and Herdman will make it more so. Clearly he'll be his man if there is any issue, and then all the rest know who to speak to about any question arising. I think he's the right material to live up to the task Considering what we saw with the Italians, doing their own thing, Bradley consenting it, then a captain who lost authority because of his age, his play, and his father being coach, there is a lot to sort out with the group. That podcast with Jiménez I referred to, he said there was no clear instructions from Bradley about certain things, the Italians chose to override decisions if there were, that caused cliques in the locker room. The other thing is that Oso knows how to speak with refs without gesticulating or seeming nervous, he has a good temperament. Just in reference to what @Bigandy says about the national team, I think we do have leaders, and quite a few. 6-7 guys who are not kids, who went through qualifying and a World Cup, played a Nations League final, they've been through a lot together. I think it is one of the things we are least lacking in. If we did not have Borjan or Vitória, I'd be fine with Osorio also being captain of the NT, then the guys, based on playing and seniority, would be Larin, Staq, I think Miller has leadership, Davies as he's maturing, then guys who may be on the fringe now, like Piette. I'd like to clarify and say that I think we lack strong vocal leaders, mostly on the pitch. Not leaders in general. I would say that davies has some leadership qualities and probably voices things in the dressing room, but hes not on the pitch organizing everyone. David, larin and staq are the same way. They do lead on the pitch and you can see that they may initiate presses or communicate to the guys when we need to make changes, but Vitoria and miller organize the team better than miller and cornelius do. From an on field perspective, I always like a guy like VVD who makes the entire team better through organizing everything. Unnamed Trialist 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costarg Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 19 hours ago, Cicero said: Does it even really matter? I mean, maybe a little psychologically for him, but for any team in general, does it really matter who is captain? I've never been on a team where the captain has any more authority or influence than the rest of the players just because they're the captain. Yes it does. Believe me it does. When your leader is Neymar and you see him whining to the ref or arguing and complaining with his own teammates and all you can do is cringe vs Buffon who is actually reasoning with the refs and motivating his teammates, it makes a huge difference to the players mindset and commitment. 19 hours ago, Cicero said: They usually are already someone who is more vocal, and the captaincy is just an acknowledgement of that, but it plays basically zero role on the field. If someone else is a vocal leader, are they just going to shut up and defer to the captain? I doubt it. There are many examples of strong silent type leaders. Giving the armband/promotion to the loudest guy in the room is a mistake several teams and companies make. Bigandy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 3 hours ago, Bigandy said: I'd like to clarify and say that I think we lack strong vocal leaders, mostly on the pitch. Not leaders in general. I would say that davies has some leadership qualities and probably voices things in the dressing room, but hes not on the pitch organizing everyone. David, larin and staq are the same way. They do lead on the pitch and you can see that they may initiate presses or communicate to the guys when we need to make changes, but Vitoria and miller organize the team better than miller and cornelius do. From an on field perspective, I always like a guy like VVD who makes the entire team better through organizing everything. Took me a while to get the VVD. In any case, I was of the understanding that most teams name a group of captains, usually 3-4, and that they do have certain responsibilities. Much of which has to do with communicating with the group off the pitch, making sure small conflicts are resolved. Welcoming and including new faces. Breaking down cliques. A young player can become captain, if they have longevity at the club, or assume captain duties, as a question of maturity and character. At Barça Ronald Araujo is already captain at age 24, and he came into the club at the same time as Ballou Tabla (who few would see as captain material at any club). Bigandy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 Both @costargand @Unnamed Trialist make really good points about captaincy and its role. Having said that, what do you guys think about the player most responsible for on-field organization in regards to CMNT without vitoria, borjan and atiba. In a perfect world, everyone contributes, however I think one strong organizer with supplementary help results in clearer communication than only supplementary guys. Staq feels like more of a supplementary organizer as hes doing everything, its hard to also organize the entire team. Can miller do it? Creapue seems like he will help but theres limits to a GK organization when higher up the field. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted February 8 Share Posted February 8 44 minutes ago, Bigandy said: Both @costargand @Unnamed Trialist make really good points about captaincy and its role. Having said that, what do you guys think about the player most responsible for on-field organization in regards to CMNT without vitoria, borjan and atiba. In a perfect world, everyone contributes, however I think one strong organizer with supplementary help results in clearer communication than only supplementary guys. Staq feels like more of a supplementary organizer as hes doing everything, its hard to also organize the entire team. Can miller do it? Creapue seems like he will help but theres limits to a GK organization when higher up the field. Thoughts? I feel like our team lacks that type of player you are describing. And with that I feel our current group lacks a little personality as well. I mentioned David Edgar in a thread recently as someone who this team would benefit from, hypothetically. Perfect replacement for Vitoria, but also the type of personality and organizer we need. Not unlike Michael Bradley. Sadly though he retired years ago. Sad how he took a big decline after being hit by a car crossing the street during preseason with the caps (down in Arizona IIRC). Funny enough, he is the same age as Vitoria. Guess that's a combination of Edgar's career getting cut short and Vitoria proving to have longevity. Bigandy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadenge Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 starts for TFC and not a single post re his play. Is that good or bad? Is he looking better than last season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 9 minutes ago, Kadenge said: 3 starts for TFC and not a single post re his play. Is that good or bad? Is he looking better than last season? Better than last year, not as good as 2-3 years ago. Kadenge, Shway and johnyb 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 19 minutes ago, Ivan said: Better than last year, not as good as 2-3 years ago. Is he playing CAM or more of an 8 role or?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 30 minutes ago, Kadenge said: 3 starts for TFC and not a single post re his play. Is that good or bad? Is he looking better than last season? He links the play and keeps the possession rolling. And when you have a mobile, wider ranging d-mid behind him, Osorio can do more of the things he's good at and fewer of the things that cause wear and tear, like having to do a lot of recovery run chasing. Corazon, Ivan, Kadenge and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOcanadafan Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 54 minutes ago, Ivan said: Better than last year, not as good as 2-3 years ago. Bingo. I'm hoping he'll regain his form if TFC continues to improve. I've always felt he plays best when surrounded by better players, and the last few years TFC have been lacking in quality. yomurphy1, Corazon, Shway and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corazon Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, nolando said: Is he playing CAM or more of an 8 role or?? Looks like he played a slightly different role today. Looked up top today alongside Insigne and Bernadeschi as Herdman opted for no striker. He dropped back but did fairly well in an advanced role and almost had a smart assist to Bernadeschi. Dropped back once Prince came into the game. Playing alongside a player like Flores helps him for sure. What a player he is. Edited March 10 by Corazon Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 He was played as a false 9 in today’s game, but that doesn’t really suit him IMO and in general, I think a false 9 only tends to work with a midfield that dominates possession, which isn’t the case right now for TFC Corazon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolando Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 26 minutes ago, Corazon said: Looks like he played a slightly different role today. Looked up top today alongside Insigne and Bernadeschi as Herdman opted for no striker. He dropped back but did fairly well in an advanced role and almost had a smart assist to Bernadeschi. Dropped back once Prince came into the game. Playing alongside a player like Flores helps him for sure. What a player he is. It sounds like Flores 2.0 is a real gem. BearcatSA, The Beaver 2.0 and Shway 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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