Jonathan Osorio

[youllneverwalkalone]

Why is there no Stephen Hart chef's kiss gif on this forum???

[Wingback6]

On 6/28/2023 at 7:18 PM, TOcanadafan said:

Oso needs quality players around him to be most effective.  He seems to struggle if the expectation is on him to make things happen.  

Are you saying he has been a passenger riding the coat-tails of better players to hide his glaring deficiencies for his entire career? That is a bit harsh. But not entirely inaccurate.

There are very specific situations he thrives in. Most of them in and around the opponents 18. Everywhere else on the pitch he is average at best. This has always been the case.

I have always thought of him as the Canadian Aaron Ramsey.... not really a compliment. But...

[TOcanadafan]

10 hours ago, Wingback6 said:

Are you saying he has been a passenger riding the coat-tails of better players to hide his glaring deficiencies for his entire career? That is a bit harsh. But not entirely inaccurate.

There are very specific situations he thrives in. Most of them in and around the opponents 18. Everywhere else on the pitch he is average at best. This has always been the case.

I have always thought of him as the Canadian Aaron Ramsey.... not really a compliment. But...

No, I’m saying exactly what I said.  He plays better / is a more effective player when he’s playing with higher quality teammates.  He just can’t seem to drive play or make much happen on his own.  I agree with what you say in that he has his best moments in and around the opponents 18.  

[Bigandy]

2 hours ago, TOcanadafan said:

No, I’m saying exactly what I said.  He plays better / is a more effective player when he’s playing with higher quality teammates.  He just can’t seem to drive play or make much happen on his own.  I agree with what you say in that he has his best moments in and around the opponents 18.  

I agree and I think it makes sense why he needs higher quality team mates. 

He's not a dribbler, fast, amazing technically etc. What he does have is a strong IQ. He needs quality teammates who can see and play with him in high IQ moments. If a player isnt smart enough to make a run to create space, drive into a gap etc Oso cant make the pass and then what can he do... dribble his defender? unlikely. Although his IQ is his strength, its not soo great that he can run a game with inferior teammates. He sits in this weird grey zone of able to support our stars and contribute greatly but is still a class 2 player. 

[reggietfc]

he is a DP...that is all you have to say about how bad tfc is.lost a step oft injured,was invisible on tuesday

[Joe Keeper]

6 hours ago, reggietfc said:

he is a DP...that is all you have to say about how bad tfc is.lost a step oft injured,was invisible on tuesday

Not a great game for him, but he did provide the through ball to Hoillet which was crossed to Cavallini for the equaliser. Thats something we sorely lack in midfield.

[phresh]

6 minutes ago, Joe Keeper said:

Not a great game for him, but he did provide the through ball to Hoillet which was crossed to Cavallini for the equaliser. Thats something we sorely lack in midfield.

He didn't, Cavallini was the one who sent it to Hoilett 

Edited June 30, 2023 by phresh

[Joe Keeper]

23 hours ago, phresh said:

He didn't, Cavallini was the one who sent it to Hoilett 

Watched it again. You're right, I missed that. Maybe we should try Cava in central mid 😬

[DeRo_Is_King]

Almost invisible yesterday. 

[gator]

1 minute ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

Almost invisible yesterday. 

I really didn't expect a lot from him in this tournament or the NL and in fact I am surprised how much he is playing after recently returning from an injury lay off, surely his minutes could be managed better, there has to be other options!

[DeRo_Is_King]

2 minutes ago, gator said:

I really didn't expect a lot from him in this tournament or the NL and in fact I am surprised how much he is playing after recently returning from an injury lay off, surely his minutes could be managed better, there has to be other options!

You would think so, but if Loturi is injured, then that leaves Wotherspoon as a like-for-like at CM on this squad.

I don't think Spoony did much of anything either yesterday, but in fairness, he never plays and was probably shocked to be given a chance. Guys like him and ZBG just never seem to get consistent minutes under Herdman. 

[Kent]

Scored a goal tonight, almost had a couple others but offside on both (and I'm not 100% sure the ball was over the line on the first one). Nice to see him getting some results because he hasn't been up to his usual high standard since coming back from injury.

[DeRo_Is_King]

1 minute ago, Kent said:

Scored a goal tonight, almost had a couple others but offside on both (and I'm not 100% sure the ball was over the line on the first one). Nice to see him getting some results because he hasn't been up to his usual high standard since coming back from injury.

Let's hope he can feed off this performance for the U.S. game. We need a strong veteran presence in midfield badly. 

[Kent]

Just watched the highlights. I didn't realize it was him that gave up the ball just before Cuba's first penalty (my kids were distracting when it happened, so wasn't sure who lost the ball there). Not a great moment for him there, but overall still a good game I think.

[costarg]

18 minutes ago, Kent said:

Just watched the highlights. I didn't realize it was him that gave up the ball just before Cuba's first penalty (my kids were distracting when it happened, so wasn't sure who lost the ball there). Not a great moment for him there, but overall still a good game I think.

Let me fill you in on the rest if you don't get a chance to rewatch... good offensively if you ignore the offsides which were avoidable....   So many giveaways, not just the PK, so many.

[costarg]

43 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

Let's hope he can feed off this performance for the U.S. game. We need a strong veteran presence in midfield badly. 

I honestly don't know how we're still talking about him playing next game after we've seen how poor he's been the past few matches.  Even as newbies, if Bombito or Loturi played like him there is no way they'd get more minutes, we'd be like "send him back to his team and let him figure it out there".  Lets be honest, goal or not, he's been awful and does not deserve to be in the 11 vs the USA, regardless of what he's done for us in the past.  This is not the same player.  Even with a limited squad, we have better options.  

But.... brotherhood, am i right?

[dyslexic nam]

12 minutes ago, costarg said:

I honestly don't know how we're still talking about him playing next game after we've seen how poor he's been the past few matches.  Even as newbies, if Bombito or Loturi played like him there is no way they'd get more minutes, we'd be like "send him back to his team and let him figure it out there".  Lets be honest, goal or not, he's been awful and does not deserve to be in the 11 vs the USA, regardless of what he's done for us in the past.  This is not the same player.  Even with a limited squad, we have better options.  

But.... brotherhood, am i right?

I think he has had a rough tournament, but the reality is that he is still one of the better overall players in the squad. I think you have to give him a chance against a team like the US, because he can have great moments of quality. He really could have had a Hattrick tonight, and given the lack of fire power that we have overall in this tournament, I don’t see how he doesn’t start against the US. I think we will see all of the old guard coming back out for the quarterfinal game. 

[DeRo_Is_King]

16 minutes ago, costarg said:

I honestly don't know how we're still talking about him playing next game after we've seen how poor he's been the past few matches.  Even as newbies, if Bombito or Loturi played like him there is no way they'd get more minutes, we'd be like "send him back to his team and let him figure it out there".  Lets be honest, goal or not, he's been awful and does not deserve to be in the 11 vs the USA, regardless of what he's done for us in the past.  This is not the same player.  Even with a limited squad, we have better options.  

But.... brotherhood, am i right?

I get this. Truly. And I think it may well be time to move on very soon. But we are so thin for this tourney that he has to start vs the U.S. imo.

I don't think it's fair to throw Loturi in to start such a tough match. It would be sort of what like Herdman did to Kennedy in the NL final. I fully support the idea that Loturi should have played a bigger role at this GC, but I'm not sure starting a QF vs the U.S. after half an hour of total national-team playing time will paint him in the best light. 

Edited July 5, 2023 by DeRo_Is_King

[Gian-Luca]

Looks like not everyone is in agreement

 

[Corazon]

I do think the hate on him is a bit much but anyone suggesting he shouldn’t be starting against usa is just wrong.  Are we going to put a midfield out there vs USA who have a combined 15 caps and with Fraser having 90% of those caps as well is asinine.  He’s not been the same player for us since those March games but fwiw, he was 2nd highest rated on FotMob for Canada, only behind Hoilett and he was tied with a couple others for 3rd highest rated on SofaScore only behind Hoilett and Millar.

He should have had a hat trick at least.  It wasn’t clean but he did score that first offside goal.  My issue on that one is that he should be staying onside there.  And what a finish on the 2nd offside goal.  We talk about distance goals outside the box but aside from Hoilett who else can score those?  It’s nice that we have a player that can get in those positions where he put 3 past the goalie today.

However, he has most of the responsibility on the first goal against and he gave the ball away far too often again.  I do think he’s a player that benefits with better players around him like Eustaquio and Kone like when they all played together against Honduras.

Im also a TFC/Osorio fan so I’m going to have a bit of bias.  Regardless of how poor he is been, you can’t not have him start against USA.  My bigger issue is with Herdman playing him for all 90 minutes in 3 group stage games in the span of 8 days and 4 games including TFC in 11 days.  On top of that, he just came back from a lengthy injury.

Edited July 5, 2023 by Corazon

[kacbru]

33 minutes ago, Corazon said:

I do think the hate on him is a bit much but anyone suggesting he shouldn’t start against usa is just wrong.  Wee gonna put a midfield out there with a combined 15 caps with Fraser having 90% of those is asinine.  He’s not been the same player for us since those March games but fwiw, he was 2nd highest rated on FotMob for Canada, only behind Hoilett and he was tied with a couple others for 3rd highest rated on SofaScore only behind Hoilett and Millar.

He should have had a hat trick at least.  It wasn’t clean but he did score that first offside goal.  My issue is that he should be staying inside there.  And what a finish on the 2nd offside goal.  We talk about distance goals outside the box but aside from Hoilett who else can score those?  It’s nice that we have a player that can get in those positions where he put 3 past the goalie today.

However, he has most of the responsibility on the first goal and he gave the ball away far too often again.  I do think he’s a player that benefits with better players around him like Eustaquio and Kone when they all played together against Honduras.

Im also a TFC/Osorio fan so I’m going to have a bit of bias.  Regardless of how poor he is been, you can’t not have him start against USA.  My bigger issue is with Herdman playing him for all 90 minutes in 3 group stage games in the span of 8 days and 4 games including TFC in 11 days.  On top of just coming back from a lengthy injury.

Agreed - in my mind he was TFC MVP before he was injured last year.  Not a coincidence that TFC fell to pieces when he went down.  He hasn't been the same since, but he is still miles ahead of other options right now.  Hopefully he gets back his old self soon.

[GasPed]

Player of the Match?  I mean yes, that goal (and the run that preceded it) was brilliant, but he was very much responsible for their first goal with that horrid giveaway, and as if he didn't learn from that, his giveaway in the second half led to the corner that led to their second goal.  I suppose if Player of the Match means "involved in all the goals", there's a solid case for him though...

Edited July 5, 2023 by GasPed

[pod818]

I feel like he could have caught the ball that led to the corner kick, which led to the goal. Thats been a major complaint, that he knocks balls out that he could catch

[costarg]

I'll just reply here, cause I can't reply to all in one go.  Every comment here is saying "he's still our best option", "was our best, before the injury", "should have had a hat trick", "but was offside".  This is all either past tense or his own mistakes.  Nothing here says he still has quality.  One goal for does not negate 1-2 goals against and a LOT of costly turnovers.  

He's played too many minutes and looks tired, he's not finishing his runs, defensive duties or tracking back enough not to be offside.  Frankly, either his mind is not sharp enough anymore, lost the stamina or is just tired.  Playing him for what he did last year is just silly.  We have defensive mid's and we have offensive mids.  This is just Herdman being too safe, not trying enough of the options and brotherhood mumbo jumbo.  We've seen more hustle and skill from the young guys and Hoilett than we have from Osorio.

This coming from a fan, but gotta call it like it is "today".

[costarg]

15 hours ago, Corazon said:

I do think the hate on him is a bit much but anyone suggesting he shouldn’t be starting against usa is just wrong.  Are we going to put a midfield out there vs USA who have a combined 15 caps and with Fraser having 90% of those caps as well is asinine.  He’s not been the same player for us since those March games but fwiw, he was 2nd highest rated on FotMob for Canada, only behind Hoilett and he was tied with a couple others for 3rd highest rated on SofaScore only behind Hoilett and Millar.

He should have had a hat trick at least.  It wasn’t clean but he did score that first offside goal.  My issue on that one is that he should be staying onside there.  And what a finish on the 2nd offside goal.  We talk about distance goals outside the box but aside from Hoilett who else can score those?  It’s nice that we have a player that can get in those positions where he put 3 past the goalie today.

However, he has most of the responsibility on the first goal against and he gave the ball away far too often again.  I do think he’s a player that benefits with better players around him like Eustaquio and Kone like when they all played together against Honduras.

Im also a TFC/Osorio fan so I’m going to have a bit of bias.  Regardless of how poor he is been, you can’t not have him start against USA.  My bigger issue is with Herdman playing him for all 90 minutes in 3 group stage games in the span of 8 days and 4 games including TFC in 11 days.  On top of that, he just came back from a lengthy injury.

No one hates Osorio.  Calling it what it is, is not hate in any sense.  Pretty sure all of us love Osorio for what he's done, but he's just not at the level this tournament and needs a break or something.

The 15 caps argument is what got us here in the first place.  The squad should have been rotated, now we find ourselves here with the same guys having played almost all the minutes and we're still scared to try something new, even if our results have been awful.

Should have had a hat trick -  if not for his own errors.

Distance goals - we don't know cause we haven't seen the other guys.  However, Millar, Ahmed and Nelson all have nice strikes from distance.