Osaze De Rosario

[CanadaFan123]

Idk … 22 seems like a really young age to make such a move. 2022 was such a promising year for him.

[InglewoodJack]

Kinda nice seeing players realizing the huge gap between being good and being good enough for us, I guess. Realistically, what sort of jump at age 23 would he need to take to even get into a position to make a jump to somewhere where he could get into CANMNT contention? Score 15 in CPL next year, then score another 10 in MLS the following year? That still puts him very far behind David, Larin, you even have JRR who right now is where ODR could be in two or three years, Brym isn’t going away, Ugbo, Cava, so on. Glad the guy can play national team ball though. 

[Obinna]

7 minutes ago, Corazon said:

Fully okay with this as he will likely never been CMNT quality and him joining Guyana slightly improves CONCACAF.  Some may disagree but I believe the whole of CONCACAF will benefit from moves like this.  I'm sure Osaze would have loved nothing more than to represent Canada like his father but realistically was never going to get that opportunity.

I agree with you here. A better CONCACAF benefits us. Let's say though Pacius decides tomorrow he's playing for Haiti, that's another player who is youngish that could maybe one day break through to the NT. Clearly it's not up to me, but there is a part of me that wants these guys to wait a bit longer.

Malcom Shaw, for example, is 25 and committed to T&T this year. He has 1 goal and 5 caps already, which is great for him and T&T (and CPL). Like Osaze and Pacius, he was in that category of probably not being good enough for Canada, which was proven correct as time went on. His best years are ahead of him at 25 and T&T probably have an international player for at least the next 5-7 years. 

Maybe Osaze saw that and wanted a longer NT career and decided not to wait, and maybe Pacius will follow suit, but if we are waiting for a CPL-bred forward to break into the NT the wait will only get longer if these guys give up on the dream sooner. 

Here's another thing too, how much better is JRR (for instance) than Pacius or Osaze? With all due respect to Russel-Rowe, I feel like he got his chance because he is playing in MLS. Yes the level is better but he's played less and scored less goals at that level. I am not saying we made the wrong call to invest in JRR and I am happy he is ours and it's deserved, but I also think the Pacius/Osaze type guy is just a transfer away from being in the same boat as JRR is. Wasn't Pacius being looked at by MLS clubs not so long ago? 

[Obinna]

30 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Kinda nice seeing players realizing the huge gap between being good and being good enough for us, I guess. Realistically, what sort of jump at age 23 would he need to take to even get into a position to make a jump to somewhere where he could get into CANMNT contention? Score 15 in CPL next year, then score another 10 in MLS the following year? That still puts him very far behind David, Larin, you even have JRR who right now is where ODR could be in two or three years, Brym isn’t going away, Ugbo, Cava, so on. Glad the guy can play national team ball though. 

I think he would have need to transfer to MLS, but I don't think he would have needed a 10 goal season to get into the pool. 

I'll put it this way: In an alternative universe Osaze (or Pacius) didn't play in CPL this year. Instead, an MLS club took a flyer on them. They started in MLS Next Pro and by mid season 2023 they were getting first team minutes. In the final stretch of the season they scored a goal (maybe even a couple) and proved to be an option from the bench. 

This is where JRR basically is. He got his first NT call in 2023 off the back of that. 

My point is that could have been Osaze or Pacius had things played out differently.

For context, these guys are 2001 and JRR is 2002. 

Edit - for clarity, the way things played out, in a best case scenario he probably does need a big season like that. Just trying to say here that on a different timeline it could have been different (I think) and he could have taken the JRR path, which didn't require such a big breakout goal-wise. Simply being a promising squad player was enough for Russel-Rowe.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Obinna
clarity

[InglewoodJack]

6 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think he would have need to transfer to MLS, but I don't think he would have needed a 10 goal season to get into the pool. 

I'll put it this way: In an alternative universe Osaze (or Pacius) didn't play in CPL this year. Instead, an MLS club took a flyer on them. They started in MLS Next Pro and by mid season 2023 they were getting first team minutes. In the final stretch of the season they scored a goal (maybe even a couple) and proved to be an option from the bench. 

This is where JRR basically is. He got his first NT call in 2023 off the back of that. 

My point is that could have been Osaze or Pacius had things played out differently.

For context, these guys are 2001 and JRR is 2002. 

Right- I just think the leap ODR needs to make to get to JRR's level is pretty significant, and even JRR is barely on the cusp; a big part of why he's getting calls is he ran away with the nextpro golden boot, he played for a very good MLS team and his goal rate per 90 was very strong- also, because he should grow from there and I think we're all expecting JRR to improve his goal tally next year with more minutes, more experience, etc. By the time ODR gets to JRR's level, how old is he, 25? Even beyond him, he'd have to surpass Deandre Kerr, Jules-Anthony Vilsaint who looked very good for Montreal down the stretch, and by the time all of that happens, where is a player like Richard Chukwu in the depth chart? Ugbo could be a championship vet too. Theo Bair could settle in and start scoring in Scotland consistently. Froese in 2.Bundesliga too. A lot of guys in our pool who aren't quite there but could take an early/mid 20s leap to get into the mix, and I think ODR has to leap all of those guys to even get a 3rd string spot behind Larin and David, and that alone isn't necessarily the most exciting proposition for a player when he has other options.

[Corazon]

27 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think he would have need to transfer to MLS, but I don't think he would have needed a 10 goal season to get into the pool. 

I'll put it this way: In an alternative universe Osaze (or Pacius) didn't play in CPL this year. Instead, an MLS club took a flyer on them. They started in MLS Next Pro and by mid season 2023 they were getting first team minutes. In the final stretch of the season they scored a goal (maybe even a couple) and proved to be an option from the bench. 

This is where JRR basically is. He got his first NT call in 2023 off the back of that. 

My point is that could have been Osaze or Pacius had things played out differently.

For context, these guys are 2001 and JRR is 2002. 

Edit - for clarity, the way things played out, in a best case scenario he probably does need a big season like that. Just trying to say here that on a different timeline it could have been different (I think) and he could have taken the JRR path, which didn't require such a big breakout goal-wise. Simply being a promising squad player was enough for Russel-Rowe.

Ryan Telfer was another player you were afraid of losing when it happened, albeit, he was a few years older when he comitted to T&T.  But Telfer actually had MLS experience with TFC before playing in the CPL.  He is currently playing for Miami in the USL Championship.  The same level that Tani Olwaseyi just destroyed and he is not even close to our program either right now.  I could be wrong about Osaze and he could have a monumental rise but he still has a big gap to close before he would even be considered for Canada.  

I doubt there are too many bigger fans of his father than me so I would have loved to see his sons follow in their fathers footsteps.  But I've also watched Osaze play live in person this season on several occasions and he has never stood out to me.  Now, I have never watched Tani play in person but some of his highlights this season have me more excited for his potential (despite being a year older than Osaze).

Edited November 16, 2023 by Corazon

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, InglewoodJack said:

Right- I just think the leap ODR needs to make to get to JRR's level is pretty significant, and even JRR is barely on the cusp; a big part of why he's getting calls is he ran away with the nextpro golden boot, he played for a very good MLS team and his goal rate per 90 was very strong- also, because he should grow from there and I think we're all expecting JRR to improve his goal tally next year with more minutes, more experience, etc. By the time ODR gets to JRR's level, how old is he, 25? Even beyond him, he'd have to surpass Deandre Kerr, Jules-Anthony Vilsaint who looked very good for Montreal down the stretch, and by the time all of that happens, where is a player like Richard Chukwu in the depth chart? Ugbo could be a championship vet too. Theo Bair could settle in and start scoring in Scotland consistently. Froese in 2.Bundesliga too. A lot of guys in our pool who aren't quite there but could take an early/mid 20s leap to get into the mix, and I think ODR has to leap all of those guys to even get a 3rd string spot behind Larin and David, and that alone isn't necessarily the most exciting proposition for a player when he has other options.

Agree with this entirely. We can't change the past either. Osaze didn't get that transfer at a critical juncture, nor did Pacius. Maybe that's the critical thing here, that our CPL forward prospects move on to a better league before the age of 21. They scored goals but the transfer didn't come (there was a bit of smoke with Pacius).

As the league matures and develops more of a reputation, future goal-scoring prospects may get that transfer before 21 and subsequently get into the NT pool (or close to it), instead of giving up at 22 years old. 

[Obinna]

1 minute ago, Corazon said:

Ryan Telfer was another player you were afraid of losing when it happened, albeit, he was a few years older when he comitted to T&T. 

Yeah I defintely was concerned at the time and in retrospect my fear was not justified (as many of you guys pointed out), so I learned from that for sure. It's why I am not concerned this time around over the specific player. I am a little concerned (for Canada) about the trend I see, but ultimately it's a good thing for the region that talent gets distributed throughout the confederation. 

10 minutes ago, Corazon said:

 But Telfer actually had MLS experience with TFC before playing in the CPL.  He is currently playing for Miami in the USL Championship.  The same level that Tani Olwaseyi just destroyed and he is not even close to our program either right now.  

Right. I am not advocating for calling USL or CanPL forwards, but rather suggesting the talent gap is not massive between a guy like Tani, Pacius, Ozase and a guy like JRR.

The perception gap is massive however, so a guy like JRR gets called. I don't blame the CSA either, we definitely want to prioritize getting the guys in MLS in our pipeline, but we (should) also want the talented lower league players to get into MLS (or equivalent) ASAP so they become "viable" call ups (for lack of a better word). Otherwise, before we know it they miss the boat and the window to call them up closes. To me that seems to be what happened with Ozase and will probably happen with Pacius. I don't blame players for wanting to get their NT careers started.

[Shway]

I'll start off by saying great decision kid. It's better to take the opportunity and start your international career now, than wait for something that may never come. 

For the ones who are erry about this decision. You gotta think about it from a players perspective. When? When will I get the chance to represent?In the case of DeRosario... 1. I haven't ever been apart of the my birth countries setup. 2. Looking at the core very few new guys will join 3. If the opportunity knocks, why not take it. 

These moves will continue to happen. And Canada and USA will continue to be scouted for "surplus" Concacaf talent in those countries. The only issue I strongly have is that it stems from the vetting and opportunities aspect. We don't have enough youth camps, and the most important age bracket U-23 (imo) doesn't exist. It would take a lot for the USA to "miss out" on a player considering the amount of camps they have at several ages. For us, it could very much so happen because of the lack thereof....so time will continue to tell us about our failures. The only thing is that these "ex" Canadians can't affect our WC qualifying opportunities today.

So I can't be mad about Osaze betting on himself internationally considering the increase in WC spots. Our next worry is losing Woobens 

Edited November 16, 2023 by Shway

[InglewoodJack]

35 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Agree with this entirely. We can't change the past either. Osaze didn't get that transfer at a critical juncture, nor did Pacius. Maybe that's the critical thing here, that our CPL forward prospects move on to a better league before the age of 21. They scored goals but the transfer didn't come (there was a bit of smoke with Pacius).

As the league matures and develops more of a reputation, future goal-scoring prospects may get that transfer before 21 and subsequently get into the NT pool (or close to it), instead of giving up at 22 years old. 

The CPL vs. MLS/Europe route puts players into an interesting predicament. On one hand, going straight to the CPL and playing pro at a young age gives you really valuable experience, more than similar prospects playing in other leagues' dev systems, but on the other hand, by the time these young players get good enough to get noticed, they're 21, 22, not old by any means, but no longer these young prospects; we know more or less what to expect. On the Europe/MLS side, there's a greater risk of getting buried, but one good game changes everything. At 20, Vilsaint flamed out of Belgium and came to Montreal. Never played, was called in one game, looked awesome, and while he's nowhere near the NT, he's going to get a very good look at Montreal and will likely get the minutes he needs to score and up his stock, and from there, who knows. At 20, ODR went straight from Ukraine to York, looked awesome, didn't get a move for whatever reason, and this season he was a bit quieter, and now he's 22, a known quantity, and likely not going to move this year, so his time as a "prospect" is pretty much over. On the other extreme, you have guys like LDF and Liam Millar who did the whole european academy thing and ran a very high risk of getting buried, but LM played that one cup game for Liverpool, LDF played that one cup game for Fullham, and for the former, the rest is history, and for the latter, let's hope we can say the same 48 hours from now.

I think that's where the U18 CPL minutes really need to come in. A decent CPL prospect who is 19 or 20 needs to play a few seasons, move to MLS or like Scotland or wherever, and then by the time he gets a real shot, he's in his mid 20s. Even a guy like Loturi- I think he's cap tied for us, but at his age, with some of the guys coming in like Bombito and LDF, if they want him as a CDM, if South Sudan starts calling... Loturi is 22, he's no youth player at this point. That's why a player like Tahid is so exciting, because he could play a full CPL season next year, move to MLS the year after, and he could spend 3 years in MLS and move abroad, and he'd still be 21 with 5 years of pro ball under his belt. Obviously "when players are good young, that's a good thing" is elementary, but I do wonder where the CPL is at quality wise right now, if it's doing any high potential player any good unless they're extremely young, because there's only so long you can stay in Canada before you start getting leapfrogged by other prospects playing elsewhere.

[The Real Marc]

Guyana minutes can only help his profile, right?

Guys at his level at his age may not be in soccer for another ten years. Have to take the opportunities when they come.

I get it. Good luck!

Edited November 16, 2023 by The Real Marc

[PastPros]

On 4/30/2022 at 3:54 PM, TGAA_Star said:

Osaze if he breaks into our national team in the future, sky's the limit for this kid

The limit appears to not be so high afterall.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

17 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

... but I do wonder where the CPL is at quality wise right now, if it's doing any high potential player any good unless they're extremely young, ...

The honest answer to that is likely to upset some people on here but it's also good for the occasional player like Mo Farsi who has fallen between the cracks of the system to show what he can do at an older age than you probably have in mind. Beyond that there's nothing hugely wrong with a league providing some pro level soccer to watch in cities like Halifax even if very few of the players are ever going to be much of a factor where the CMNT is concerned.

[InglewoodJack]

19 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The honest answer to that is likely to upset some people on here but it's also good for the occasional player like Mo Farsi who has fallen between the cracks of the system to show what he can do at an older age than you probably have in mind. Beyond that there's nothing hugely wrong with a league providing some pro level soccer to watch in cities like Halifax even if very few of the players are ever going to be much of a factor where the CMNT is concerned.

Totally right. We talk about the CPL here almost exclusively as a dev pipeline, but the reality is that sport is entertainment, and it's a lot more about giving an opportunity for 5000 Halifaxers (that what they're called?) or Hamiltonians a local team to support and take their family and friends out for a fun night at the park. Same is true of every single pro sports league in the world. I think improving development and improving viewership and attendance go hand in hand to some extent, but I'm not sure if you're over say, 19 or 20, whether you can have the level of professional career that puts you into the national team (or big overseas transfer) conversation by spending a few years in the CPL. There are exceptions- Farsi, McNaughton, Waterman, soon hopefully Nimick, even those guys, we figure they'll cap out as good MLS pieces and guys of that calibre will always have a place in our NT pool whenever we need reinforcements, but as far as an exciting top level soccer career, guys like Tahid and Tavernier can benefit from the CPL, but ODR, Pacius, et al., might've had a better shot at betting on themselves in Europe or something. Or maybe they never had a shot, and hey, at least they can earn money playing soccer in the country they grew up in. Not a bad way to spend your 20s.

But at the very ground level, Canada is a massive country and one of the most sports-inclined nations in the world, and our people deserve professional teams to root for. If HFX holds the same place in Halifax that your beloved League One/Two team with zero future stars on their team holds in their respective English towns, I think that's a win for the country.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Haligonians is the word people from Halifax.

[InglewoodJack]

9 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Haligonians is the word people from Halifax.

And we just let them do this?

[VinceA]

5 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

Right move.  Still bothers me, personally.  

I'm sad because I really hoped to see him with Canada one day. But I also realize I'm super biased as De Ro is my favourite player of all time and perhaps I'm hoping to much of Osaze relative to what his level will end up being.

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, Corazon said:

Fully okay with this as he will likely never been CMNT quality and him joining Guyana slightly improves CONCACAF.  Some may disagree but I believe the whole of CONCACAF will benefit from moves like this.  I'm sure Osaze would have loved nothing more than to represent Canada like his father but realistically was never going to get that opportunity.

It's not clear he's not potentially CMNT quality, he was playing in Ukraine age 19-20 before the war.

The cpl phase was meant as a reset. I don't see why he couldn't try a similar European league again at his age. And go from there.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Corazon]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It's not clear he's not potentially CMNT quality, he was playing in Ukraine age 19-20 before the war.

The cpl phase was meant as a reset. I don't see why he couldn't try a similar European league again at his age. And go from there.

It’s possible, he did make a couple substitute appearances over 15-20 games and he was young.  We can check back on this in a few years but I’m not too concerned.

[dyslexic nam]

I get the rational argument but I can’t emotionally get behind a Canadian kid choosing to rep another country.  May be petty but it is what it is.  

[Dominic94]

Reality is that he just wasn’t going to be good enough, I’m not sure the market in mls for a player like him really exists. Americans don’t even get a fair shake in these positions let alone Canadians… not sure what his next move could have even been.

[Markoaleks]

Sad about this but that’s more driven by my admiration for his Dad. Dero always put a shift in for his country anytime he was called - I was at BMO when our team scored a cheeky quickly taken FK V Panama - Great vibes for pops still !

That said- with few exceptions, Gen 2 kids have a hard time bettering the parent for the most part -  No Gretzky, No Lemieux, No B Orr offspring in hockey context play. 

Wish him well- dad still is an OG and nothing will replace that 

also- need to prep his GK son will do same move eventually too 

[Corazon]

28 minutes ago, Markoaleks said:

Sad about this but that’s more driven by my admiration for his Dad. Dero always put a shift in for his country anytime he was called - I was at BMO when our team scored a cheeky quickly taken FK V Panama - Great vibes for pops still !

That said- with few exceptions, Gen 2 kids have a hard time bettering the parent for the most part -  No Gretzky, No Lemieux, No B Orr offspring in hockey context play. 

Wish him well- dad still is an OG and nothing will replace that 

also- need to prep his GK son will do same move eventually too 

I was at that game as well!  De Ro still to this day is one of my all time favourites.

[nolando]

32 minutes ago, Corazon said:

I was at that game as well!  De Ro still to this day is one of my all time favourites.

I hope everyone has read his autobiography.  Although it was never going to win a literary prize, it provides great insight and was a very fun read.

[Kent]

I can't be mad at Osaze or anything, and I don't think I hold him to any different standard because of his dad, but I don't have to like this news either. I'm a York United fan, and it felt a bit nicer when he scored rather than others because he is a young(ish) Canadian player that yes, I thought still could potentially help the national team some day. He's 22 years old. People are bringing up Larin, who I love and I defended way back when he was a bit of a whipping boy in the days of that Gold Cup missed net (against El Salvador was it?). But he's got 0 goals so far this season (in possibly the best league in the world, top 2 for sure, but still) and will be in his 30's when Osaze is 24. Cavallini is already 30, so will be 32 when Larin hit's his 30's, and Cavallini already looks like maybe his best days are behind him. Akinola dropped off the face of the earth after his unfortunate knee injury in the Gold Cup. Ugbo hasn't impressed me from anything I've seen (I haven't been following his progress this season). Things aren't as rosy at striker as they were not long ago. I wasn't as hopeful for Osaze to pan out after this season as I was after last season, but there was still a chance I thought he could break through one day.