Osaze De Rosario

[Kingston]

9 minutes ago, solsous said:

They still are not scouting the CPL.  That's facts.

People have given examples of players moving between the CPL and MLS.  These are facts that suggest scouting is going on.

What evidence do you have that they aren't scouting the CPL to counter this?  Just saying "that's facts" doesn't make things so.

[solsous]

5 minutes ago, Kingston said:

People have given examples of players moving between the CPL and MLS.  These are facts that suggest scouting is going on.

What evidence do you have that they aren't scouting the CPL to counter this?  Just saying "that's facts" doesn't make things so.

Nice counterpoint, but you have to understand what direction the MLS is heading.  As a former NCAA D1 player, I can tell you that the MLS scouts were all about the college game.  Now, that's an afterthought.  Their primary focus is their academies.  A lot of kids are opting-out of academies to go to college in hope of being drafted. 

The MLS is barely scouting the USL.  Why?  This is because most squads in the MLS are former draft picks that have been discarded,.  To counter that, teams in the USL Championship are starting their own academies.

By the way, when I played, the MLS didn't even exist.  It was MISL or UPS.

[El Diego]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

I believe that'll be discontinued in 2024 when CCL is expanded.

Oh I did not know about this, thanks for the heads up. I see that this 2022 version is the last CONCACAF League version with 6 teams from that qualifying for the 2023 CL, and then in 2024 we will have the new fully expanded version of the CL.

Canada is guaranteed 3 spots in 2024 and beyond it looks like: CPL champion, CPL regular season champion, and Vs Cup champion. So funnily enough, technically the CPL is guaranteed a spot but the Canadian MLS teams are not.

If anyone is interested, this link explains it (including what happens if a single club holds multiple qualification slots): https://www.concacaf.com/en/champions-league/news/concacaf-announces-qualification-criteria-for-confederation-s-expanded-champions-league-starting-in-2024/

[Kingston]

14 hours ago, El Diego said:

Canada is guaranteed 3 spots in 2024 and beyond it looks like: CPL champion, CPL regular season champion, and Vs Cup champion. So funnily enough, technically the CPL is guaranteed a spot but the Canadian MLS teams are not.

Without getting too far off the topic of this thread, I'd prefer the CPL champ, the highest ranked MLS team, and the V-Cup winner.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Kingston

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, Kingston said:

Without getting to far off the topic of this thread, I'd prefer the CPL champ, the highest ranked MLS team, and the V-Cup winner.

Considering how MLS teams have dominated the V-Cup, and considering how Canada MLS teams are now eligible for one of the four MLS births (come 2024), I think giving them an additional spot is excessive.

The balance is perfect with CPL receiving two births, in my view.

Edit: It's actually 5 births. The MLS Cup winner goes to round 2, while the SS winner, the regular season conference winners and the next best team in the SS standings enter in round 1.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Obinna

[Kingston]

15 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Considering how MLS teams have dominated the V-Cup, and considering how Canada MLS teams are now eligible for one of the four MLS births (come 2024), I think giving them an additional spot is excessive.

The balance is perfect with CPL receiving two births, in my view.

Really it comes down to, do you want to send two teams that have a chance to do something in the tournament or two teams that are probably going to get crushed in the first round?  I'd prefer two better teams and one CPL representative, but, hey, opinions.

[narduch]

46 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Really it comes down to, do you want to send two teams that have a chance to do something in the tournament or two teams that are probably going to get crushed in the first round?  I'd prefer two better teams and one CPL representative, but, hey, opinions.

We don't even know how Concacaf will seed the tournament yet.

For all we know the CPL champs will be a Pot 1 team and could draw a Caribbean or Central American team.

The 3 Canadian MLS teams already have 3 different ways to make the new Champions League (Vs Cup, MLS & Leagues Cup). How many more advantages do they need?

Edited July 21, 2022 by narduch

[Shway]

6 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Really it comes down to, do you want to send two teams that have a chance to do something in the tournament or two teams that are probably going to get crushed in the first round?  I'd prefer two better teams and one CPL representative, but, hey, opinions.

Go read my post about “are we in control of our future”….

I’ve made this exact point about the positives and negatives (which there are more of) in this new expanded format.

24 minutes ago, Obinna said:

…and considering how Canada MLS teams are now eligible for one of the four MLS births (come 2024),

This sounds good in theory, but won’t really be realistic consistent opportunities for them considering their history (how they have performed) in MLS. Coupled with  the non stop expansion reaching 30 teams by 2024 with only 3 teams being Canadian.

 It would be a historic, and monumental season if/when we have the most 6 teams participating in one campaign, however we’ll only see 3 regularly. 

[RS]

9 minutes ago, narduch said:

The 3 Canadian MLS teams already have 2 different ways to make the new Champions League (Vs Cup, MLS & Leagues Cup). How many more advantages do they need?

I wouldn't count Vs Cup as an "advantage" for the MLS teams since the CPL teams are also eligible through that competition.

[Kingston]

15 minutes ago, narduch said:

We don't even know how Concacaf will seed the tournament yet.

For all we know the CPL champs will be a Pot 1 team and could draw a Caribbean or Central American team.

The 3 Canadian MLS teams already have 2 different ways to make the new Champions League (Vs Cup, MLS & Leagues Cup). How many more advantages do they need?

I'm not looking at it as, "How do I advantage one or the other league".  I'm looking at it as, "What do I want to see as a fan?"

What I personally want to see is both leagues represented and the Canadian teams given the best chance of doing well.

[narduch]

Just now, Kingston said:

I'm not looking at it as, "How do I advantage one or the other league".  I'm looking at it as, "What do I want to see as a fan?"

What I personally want to see is both leagues represented and the Canadian teams given the best chance of doing well.

Sounds like you have an MLS hard on/bias

[narduch]

6 minutes ago, RS said:

I wouldn't count Vs Cup as an "advantage" for the MLS teams since the CPL teams are also eligible through that competition.

Not really interested in playing the semantics game.

The bottom line is they will have 3 paths to Champions League now.

They can earn it on the field.

[RS]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

Not really interested in playing the semantics game.

The bottom line is they will have 3 paths to Champions League now.

They can earn it on the field.

They are, just like the CPL teams will be.

But what I wrote isn't semantics. Both leagues are involved in the Vs Cup, so that path isn't exclusive to one or the other as you seemed to imply.

Obviously the MLS teams should continue winning it for the foreseeable future, but that's another discussion altogether.

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, RS said:

They are, just like the CPL teams will be.

But what I wrote isn't semantics. Both leagues are involved in the Vs Cup, so that path isn't exclusive to one or the other as you seemed to imply.

Obviously the MLS teams should continue winning it for the foreseeable future, but that's another discussion altogether.

Feels like you don't really have  point to make and are just arguing for the fuck of it

[Obinna]

44 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Really it comes down to, do you want to send two teams that have a chance to do something in the tournament or two teams that are probably going to get crushed in the first round?  I'd prefer two better teams and one CPL representative, but, hey, opinions.

Yeah for sure. I never looked at it from that perspective. That's a fair way to look at it.

But keep in mind that it's going to be a knock out tournament, like the V-Cup, so anything can happen. I agree that MLS clubs have a better chance of going deeper into the CCL tournament, but I don't think the CPL teams will get crushed, since they aren't getting crushed in the V-Cup. 

It's also worth mentioning that 7 of the 22 teams in the first round will come from Central America and the Caribbean. Getting crushed is even less likely if the CPL teams face any of them. 

[Kingston]

10 minutes ago, narduch said:

Sounds like you have an MLS hard on/bias

Shall I now accuse you of having a CPL hard on/bias?  That would move the discussion forward productively, wouldn't it?

We're all entitled to our own opinions.  If you think it would be more fun to see, say, all three spots go to CPL teams, then great.  Personally, I think its the most fun to see Canadian teams go deep in the tournament.  Right now that's most likely with our MLS teams so I'm simply advocating a system that doesn't automatically block them from two of our three spots. 

I do also think it is fun to see a CPL team there so I'm advocating giving them a guaranteed spot (and a chance to win another) even though that team is more likely to drop out early.

Not everything is pro and anti; sometimes it's just fun.

[RS]

6 minutes ago, narduch said:

Feels like you don't really have  point to make and are just arguing for the fuck of it

Ah yes. Tell me more about not arguing for the fuck it, guy who 20 minutes ago accused another poster of having an MLS hard on.

 

[Kingston]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

But keep in mind that it's going to be a knock out tournament, like the V-Cup, so anything can happen. I agree that MLS clubs have a better chance of going deeper into the CCL tournament, but I don't think the CPL teams will get crushed, since they aren't getting crushed in the V-Cup. 

It's also worth mentioning that 7 of the 22 teams in the first round will come from Central America and the Caribbean. Getting crushed is even less likely if the CPL teams face any of them. 

Good point.  I was thinking more of the current structure where the CPL team is likely to face a Mexican team in the first round.  You're correct, they likely wouldn't get crushed against Central American or Caribbean opponents. 

[RS]

5 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Yeah for sure. I never looked at it from that perspective. That's a fair way to look at it.

But keep in mind that it's going to be a knock out tournament, like the V-Cup, so anything can happen. I agree that MLS clubs have a better chance of going deeper into the CCL tournament, but I don't think the CPL teams will get crushed, since they aren't getting crushed in the V-Cup. 

It's also worth mentioning that 7 of the 22 teams in the first round will come from Central America and the Caribbean. Getting crushed is even less likely if the CPL teams face any of them. 

Depends on the CA teams, of course, but the first round (where CPL clubs will likely enter) will be filled with CA and Caribbean sides, which should make for a good opportunity for CPL sides to advance.

I'd also like to see the competition start later, giving less of an advantage to the teams/leagues that play through the winter. How many CPL teams will be able to afford to open training camp in January/February like Forge did this year?

[narduch]

15 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Shall I now accuse you of having a CPL hard on/bias?  That would move the discussion forward productively, wouldn't it?

We're all entitled to our own opinions.  If you think it would be more fun to see, say, all three spots go to CPL teams, then great.  Personally, I think its the most fun to see Canadian teams go deep in the tournament.  Right now that's most likely with our MLS teams so I'm simply advocating a system that doesn't automatically block them from two of our three spots. 

I do also think it is fun to see a CPL team there so I'm advocating giving them a guaranteed spot (and a chance to win another) even though that team is more likely to drop out early.

Not everything is pro and anti; sometimes it's just fun.

I have a pro CanMNT bias. I won't apologize for that.

I think your suggestion is stupid.

Let's see how the CPL teams do before we write them off

Edited July 21, 2022 by narduch

[Kingston]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

I have a pro CanMNT bias. I won't apologize for that.

Nor should you.  I have that bias, too.

If that was all that drove me, I'd suggest giving all three of our spots directly to our MLS teams.  Why?  Because it would give more high level games to our NT players, some of whom play for our MLS teams and none of whom play for our CPL teams.

[narduch]

4 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Nor should you.  I have that bias, too.

If that was all that drove me, I'd suggest giving all three of our spots directly to our MLS teams.  Why?  Because it would give more high level games to our NT players, some of whom play for our MLS teams and none of whom play for our CPL teams.

Ya. An even stupider idea. Keep going 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by narduch

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

This sounds good in theory, but won’t really be realistic consistent opportunities for them considering their history (how they have performed) in MLS. Coupled with  the non stop expansion reaching 30 teams by 2024 with only 3 teams being Canadian.

 It would be a historic, and monumental season if/when we have the most 6 teams participating in one campaign, however we’ll only see 3 regularly. 

Yeah for sure. It will probably be rare if one of our teams qualifies through MLS, but in theory their odds are just as good as any other MLS team. 

With those qualification rules, Toronto would have qualified from MLS twice:

• 2020 (SS runner up)
• 2017 (MLS cup)

Edit: They also won the Canadian Championship those years, so they would have double qualified. I'd like to think the V-Cup runner up would have taken the Canadian spot.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Obinna

[RS]

14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Yeah for sure. It will probably be rare if one of our teams qualifies through MLS, but in theory their odds are just as good as any other MLS team. 

With those qualification rules, Toronto would have qualified from MLS twice:

• 2020 (SS runner up)
• 2017 (MLS cup)

 

Three times: 2017 Supporters Shield

Which makes me wonder where the priority will lie on the slim chance that a Canadian team dominates MLS and wins the Vs Cup in the same season again.

CONCACAF says the Vs Cup winner and Supporters Shield winner will be placed in the first round while the MLS Cup winner goes to the round of 16. So a 2017 TFC equivalent would likely claim the MLS Cup spot for the higher seed and the Vs Cup runner up takes that slot.

EDIT: The MLS Cup runner-up also qualifies, so add 2016 and 2019 to TFC's hypothetical qualification scenario.

Didn't Vancouver come second in the 2015 SS standings? If so, throw that in the mix too.

Edited July 21, 2022 by RS

[Ansem]

23 hours ago, solsous said:

I don't know if this was posted before, but I wish that there was a metric to compare the CPL with the USL Championship.  There should be  an open competition between the CPL, USL and the 2nd division Mexican teams.  Thoughts?

No value for CPL - That's why you won't see it unless a USL club makes it to CCL