Osaze De Rosario

[Shway]

42 minutes ago, narduch said:

I have a pro CanMNT bias. I won't apologize for that.

I think your suggestion is stupid.

Let's see how the CPL teams do before we write them off

While you may have a point, I’ll be closely watching how Pacific do in CL.

I think Forge was of a different quality. 

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Kingston said:

Right now that's most likely with our MLS teams so I'm simply advocating a system that doesn't automatically block them from two of our three spots. 

They play in a US league where they can earn qualification there and in the League Cup.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. There's nothing unfair with the current system - up to them to perform in MLS so more Canadian clubs makes it to CCL

CPL being guarantee 2 out 3 is totally fair. They proved their worth in Concacaf League as far as I'm concerned. They aren't any worse than most top Central American clubs and the gap is very narrow with top Costa Rica and Honduras clubs.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Ansem

[El Diego]

Competitions get spots, not countries

[Unnamed Trialist]

6 minutes ago, Shway said:

While you may have a point, I’ll be closely watching how Pacific do in CL.

I think Forge was of a different quality. 

It's technically not a comparable competition.

Even if the rival is inferior, which it could be, that travel to Jamaica is tough. 

IMO Forge played way over its head, starting early in winter still. I don't expect the CPL teams to get beyond 2-3 rounds ever. 

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, El Diego said:

Competitions get spots, not countries

Then it's up to the 3 MLS clubs to earn their berth via the league or league cup...no? They'll win the V Cup consistently in the near future - I don't get what's all the drama about.

[RS]

4 minutes ago, El Diego said:

Competitions get spots, not countries

Starting in 2024, that's correct. Currently, the individual national federations do get the spots and allocate them as they see fit. It's why the seeds are named "CAN1", "USA1", "MEX1", etc.

3 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Then it's up to the 3 MLS clubs to earn their berth via the league or league cup...no? They'll win the V Cup consistently in the near future - I don't get what's all the drama about.

There's no drama, just discussion. Why do some take issue with that?

[narduch]

8 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

It's technically not a comparable competition.

Even if the rival is inferior, which it could be, that travel to Jamaica is tough. 

IMO Forge played way over its head, starting early in winter still. I don't expect the CPL teams to get beyond 2-3 rounds ever. 

Forge really should have made Champions League 2 times but their keeper is shit

Edited July 21, 2022 by narduch

[Ansem]

Just now, RS said:

There's no drama, just discussion. Why do some take issue with that?

Who said I took issue with it? I'm agreeing with the new formula

[Kingston]

5 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They play in a US league where they can earn qualification there and in the League Cup.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. There's nothing unfair with the current system - up to them to perform in MLS so more Canadian clubs makes it to CCL

CPL being guarantee 2 out 3 is totally fair. They proved their worth in Concacaf League as far as I'm concerned. They aren't any worse than most top Central American clubs and the gap is very narrow with top Costa Rica and Honduras clubs.

To be clear, at no point did I discuss fairness.  I'm not advocating reserving one spot for one of our MLS teams on the basis of it somehow being fair.  I'm just saying that sending one MLS team, one CPL team, and one spot up for grabs instead of two CPL teams and one up for grabs gives us a better chance of at least one of our teams going deep in the tournament.

The CPL (Forge, really) has done well in the CL.  The CL has been a lot of fun as it pits CPL teams against difficult but beatable opponents.  I'll miss it when it's gone.  The CPL being in the mix with Costa Rica and Honduras is sort of my point when discussing the CCL, however.  In the current CCL format, most years only one non-MLS/MLX team survives to the round of eight.  So, again, let's have a CPL team because that's fun but lets also acknowledge the CPL teams are unlikely to go deep, which is less fun.

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, Kingston said:

To be clear, at no point did I discuss fairness.  I'm not advocating reserving one spot for one of our MLS teams on the basis of it somehow being fair.  I'm just saying that sending one MLS team, one CPL team, and one spot up for grabs instead of two CPL teams and one up for grabs gives us a better chance of at least one of our teams going deep in the tournament.

The CPL (Forge, really) has done well in the CL.  The CL has been a lot of fun as it pits CPL teams against difficult but beatable opponents.  I'll miss it when it's gone.  The CPL being in the mix with Costa Rica and Honduras is sort of my point when discussing the CCL, however.  In the current CCL format, most years only one non-MLS/MLX team survives to the round of eight.  So, again, let's have a CPL team because that's fun but lets also acknowledge the CPL teams are unlikely to go deep, which is less fun.

I guess you are also in favour of European Super League?

Same mentality basically 

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Kingston said:

I'm just saying that sending one MLS team, one CPL team, and one spot up for grabs instead of two CPL teams and one up for grabs gives us a better chance of at least one of our teams going deep in the tournament.

 

3 minutes ago, Kingston said:

In the current CCL format, most years only one non-MLS/MLX team survives to the round of eight.  So, again, let's have a CPL team because that's fun but lets also acknowledge the CPL teams are unlikely to go deep, which is less fun.

It's valuable experience to the young Canadians on those clubs. This will also do wonder to get new fans to those CPL clubs taking part of continental competition. You could argue that this could push the league to improve it's quality with most likely increased exposure, revenues etc.

I see what you mean but I care way more about that.

MLS clubs had to grind in CCL after getting destroyed by Liga MX years after year and improved gradually. This was valuable exposure to quality football for young Americans and coaches. The league and clubs adjusted, improved and got more competitive.

Why would you want to deny the same experience to CPL, especially when our 3 MLS clubs can qualify via the league AND league cup?

Needs of the many > wants of 3 fansbase for me

Agree to disagree

[Shway]

34 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Yeah for sure. It will probably be rare if one of our teams qualifies through MLS, but in theory their odds are just as good as any other MLS team. 

With those qualification rules, Toronto would have qualified from MLS twice:

• 2020 (SS runner up)
• 2017 (MLS cup)

Edit: They also won the Canadian Championship those years, so they would have double qualified. I'd like to think the V-Cup runner up would have taken the Canadian spot.

This is kind of expands on my pointl…everyone’s mentioning TFC…it’s been standard for them to qualify, and with their budget they will consistently appear in the CCL…but what about the Caps and Montreal? 

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Shway said:

but what about the Caps and Montreal? 

qualify via MLS and league cup?

[RS]

6 minutes ago, Shway said:

This is kind of expands on my pointl…everyone’s mentioning TFC…it’s been standard for them to qualify, and with their budget they will consistently appear in the CCL…but what about the Caps and Montreal? 

Montreal are the defending (2021) Vs Cup champs and Vancouver are the favourites to win the 2022 Cup. They'll get their shots.

Isn't that what we want, though? For teams to get in on merit?

[VinceA]

Wow so much discussion about Osaze!

[solsous]

I truly didn't mean to derail this thread.  Everything that I am hearing is well thought of and informative.  However, I really wanted to get a sense of how players like De Rosario stack up with their peers in the USL, most notably, the USL Championship.  It appears that for now, there is no way of knowing.  I will continue watching the players in the pool and take it from there.

[Unnamed Trialist]

5 minutes ago, RS said:

Montreal are the defending (2021) Vs Cup champs and Vancouver are the favourites to win the 2022 Cup. They'll get their shots.

Isn't that what we want, though? For teams to get in on merit?

Oh Geez, thanks, we're favourites? 

Since we squandered one cup to a late TFC goal at BC Place, the optimism levels here are pretty low. 

Then we'll see if many Insigne fans show up indifferent to the result altogether. I see the Caps' releases are now mentioning him. 

[RS]

2 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Oh Geez, thanks, we're favourites? 

Since we squandered one cup to a late TFC goal at BC Place, the optimism levels here are pretty low. 

Then we'll see if many Insigne fans show up indifferent to the result altogether. I see the Caps' releases are now mentioning him. 

Whitecaps are definitely the favourites. They won the previous meeting between the teams are have been far better in MLS this year, so why wouldn't they be?

I'm surprised it took so long for the Whitecaps to mention TFC's Italians, given that they've done just about everything else to try to draw fans in. Maybe they were waiting to see if the were likely to play, which seems to be leaning more towards 'yes' now than last week.

(I'll try to stop contributing to the derailment of this thread now)

[Aird25]

8 minutes ago, VinceA said:

Wow so much discussion about Osaze!

I'd rather see Osaze get experience in Concacaf than Russel Teibert

[Kingston]

58 minutes ago, narduch said:

I guess you are also in favour of European Super League?

Same mentality basically 

No, but I'm in favour of the UEFA Champions League.

[Kingston]

55 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Why would you want to deny the same experience to CPL, especially when our 3 MLS clubs can qualify via the league AND league cup?

Needs of the many > wants of 3 fansbase for me

Agree to disagree

Not deny it.  Again, I want one CPL team in the CCL (and two if one wins the V-Cup).  I just think I'd rather give the experience to current NT players rather than a team where, at most, one guy might one day make the NT.  That guy will get his chance somewhere later in his career.

Happy to agree to disagree with you, however.  You do raise well reasoned points.

[Shway]

2 hours ago, RS said:

Montreal are the defending (2021) Vs Cup champs and Vancouver are the favourites to win the 2022 Cup. They'll get their shots.

Isn't that what we want, though? For teams to get in on merit?

Kinda alludes to my otherrr point.
Based on history the only way Caps and Montreal will qualify will be through winning the VCups.

We only have 1 of our elite teams (MLS), that “have the better Canadians on it” representing us/getting continental exposure.

We’ll consistently see more CPL teams than MLS teams, and I’ll assume based on performance it will affect the coefficient. So as the CPL grows, will we warrant more spots? Which could possibly go to the runner up of the Vs?

Ultimately I would be happy with 4 can spots considering USA & Mexico have nearly 5 of a possible 10 spots each. 

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Shway said:

We only have 1 of our elite teams (MLS), that “have the better Canadians on it” representing us/getting continental exposure.

Montreal's been pretty good lately flirting with the top of the eastern conference. No reason why we couldn't have 2 out of 3 qualifying via the V Cup and either MLS or League Cup.

*I think that if the V Cup winner also does well in MLS (Conference winner/ SS / League Cup), the V Cup berth would have precedence over the League and that berth would just go to the next club (not necessarily Canadian)

 

1 hour ago, Shway said:

We’ll consistently see more CPL teams than MLS teams, and I’ll assume based on performance it will affect the coefficient.

They could get points if they draw Central America and Caribbean. They could upset a weaker US MLS club but not against Liga MX

 

1 hour ago, Shway said:

So as the CPL grows, will we warrant more spots? Which could possibly go to the runner up of the Vs?

I don't see the V Cup runner ups ever getting a CCL berth - you just don't see that for domestic cups. However, before adding more berth to Canada which would go to CPL, we could see CPL champions being moved to the round of 16 as we're the only league with no direct access to R16.

Edited July 21, 2022 by Ansem

[Kingston]

13 minutes ago, Ansem said:

They could get points if they draw Central America and Caribbean. They could upset a weaker US MLS club but not against Liga MX

Remembering that they won't ever play weak US MLS teams, just the top US MLS teams that qualify for the CCL.

[Ansem]

16 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Remembering that they won't ever play weak US MLS teams, just the top US MLS teams that qualify for the CCL.

That's debatable - a few DPs hurt and it's a different story 😉