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CPL new teams speculation

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3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

You have to be good enough regardless of what passport you have. The problem has been that there haven't been enough Canadian players that were good enough to start or appear as a sub regularly in MLS and didn't have better opportunities available to them in Europe.

Claims to be the smartest guy in the room. But refuses to admit that MLS rules discriminates against Canadians. Ok

I would take you more seriously if you were honest 

Edited by narduch

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1 hour ago, The Real Marc said:

When you are limited to competing for one of seven or eight roster spots, one or two of which are taken by international stars, your passport matters a great deal.

US teams seem to be able to get green cards for their imports easily enough, so the import player limits aren't quite as restrictive for the American MLS teams as they appear at first glance. 

https://www.dirtysouthsoccer.com/2018/3/1/17066212/mls-green-cards-immigration-process

The domestic player issue is not ideal but has been blown up out of all proportion, because it's more emotionally palatable to blame that for there being few Canadian starters in the league than the lack of MLS quality players being developed through Canada's youth system. 

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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7 hours ago, Lofty said:

You've lost me on the first bit. If MLS teams want the top Canadian players they will have to out bid CPL clubs. That won't be hard for top players like Osorio. But the next tier will be a different matter, especially when CPL increases its salary cap. CPL clubs will want those players and may very well present offers that are higher than MLS would have otherwise offered. Canadian players may also face the choice of "CPL starter" vs. "MLS bench warmer" and will now likely need a better offer to accept the latter. This should certainly force MLS to pay more to Canadian players.

And if MLS ever ends the "domestic player" prejudice shown to Canadians by all USA based MLS franchises, the demand for Canadians will again increase, and a few of the best Canadians in CPL will be pulled into MLS. But I don't think that will amount to CPL being "hammered". (Just think about CPL now: how many players are good enough for MLS?) What will happen is the supply and quality of Canadian players would increase to take advantage of the increased opportunities. And that would be a good thing.

I don't think the CPL teams have the financial wherewithal to compete against Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal if those teams are put into circumstances where they collectively need to find 30 Canadian players.  And those MLS teams will scoop up those players with next to no real inflation to their roster costs because they can.  Valour isn't going to offer Petrasso an extra $50K to stay on.  Toronto could do it without blinking an eye. 

I don't think MLS will ever offer reciprocity to Canadians, which would be the easy answer to eliminating any chance of salary inflation in a domestic quota league like MLS but I do think Canada Soccer is slow walking its way towards respectabliity and things as they are currently with the MLS domestic rules are going to change in this country.  Maybe gradually, maybe all at once, but they're going to change.

And absolutley agree.  Year 1 isn't even over yet and not one player has been sold on or graduated onto bigger things yet and already I think the leagues been a real eye opener for a lot of young people (and not so young) looking for real development opportunites.  Take a wage cut.  Invest in yourself.  Join the CPL.

 

  

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12 hours ago, Lofty said:

I don't know why MLS have a minimum but I'm guessing it was negotiated by a players' association, which is fair enough and you can understand the players wanting it. But from the club's and the league's perspective, it is not needed.

Because in the English National league if a team decides to be as cheap as possible there are repercussions (relegation), whereas in MLS, being a cheapskate can just increase your bottom line

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1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

US teams seem to be able to get green cards for their imports easily enough, so the import player limits aren't quite as restrictive for the American MLS teams as they appear at first glance. 

https://www.dirtysouthsoccer.com/2018/3/1/17066212/mls-green-cards-immigration-process

The domestic player issue is not ideal but has been blown up out of all proportion, because it's more emotionally palatable to blame that for there being few Canadian starters in the league than the lack of MLS quality players being developed through Canada's youth system. 

Your post neither responds to nor mitigates the fact that having a Canadian passport means you 

a) are competing for fewer available spots on a US team
b) face extra administrative hurdles to play on a US team, and
c) face competition from Americans without similar hurdles to play on a Canadian team. (Not to mention the question of how many of our Canadians would qualify for an EB1-A based on exceptional ability as a squad player.)

Those rules don't deter a Frank Yallop or Dwayne De Rosario but that's not who anyone is talking about when they bring up this situation; they are talking about the Marco Rizis or Felix Brilliants and even the Chris Pozniaks. In a cross-border league, it is discriminatory. In a league that uses star acquisitions to draw fans and drive interest, it is a killer blow. It is one - of course not the only one - but is a big reason for a lack of Canadians in the league.

Edited by The Real Marc

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2 hours ago, narduch said:

For all we know more players may choose the Jonathan David route and skip MLS altogether. Nobody can say for certain 

Canadian MLS teams probably would have had him rotting on the bench in favor of some foreign veteran. 

Except that didn't happen with Davies, so it's plausible that it wouldn't have happened with a just-as-good David either.

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35 minutes ago, The Real Marc said:

Your post neither responds to nor mitigates the fact that having a Canadian passport means you

...which is why I stated that it is not ideal. Not getting into an argument with you to prove you are not my sock puppet.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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6 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

...which is why I stated that it is not ideal. Not getting into an argument with you to prove you are not my sock puppet.

I'm confused. So despite disagreeing with my first post and stating it doesn't affect the number of starters, when I show you how it has affected the starters you now agree. Saves me from bringing up that there we four Canadian starters in year one of MLS  and then when Toronto FC joined, despite a diluted talent pool, more spots, and a Canadian team there was a grand total of ... six (with two of them playing for Houston.) Glad you agree the rules played a large part in that.

I'm fine...heck almost proud to be your sock puppet on attendance because you're right. I am arguing with you on this because you were wrong but seem to agree now so maybe you're my sock puppet? Symbiotic relationship works for me! :)

Edited by The Real Marc

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I actually disagree that the best 15 yr olds will automatically end up with MLS teams. If there is a comparable local option I think a lot of players will stay there. You also need to consider players will start to get tied in to contractual obligations as CPL teams continue to professionalize. How long before a 15 or 16 yr old starts to make noise in the CPL?

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3 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I actually disagree that the best 15 yr olds will automatically end up with MLS teams. If there is a comparable local option I think a lot of players will stay there. You also need to consider players will start to get tied in to contractual obligations as CPL teams continue to professionalize. How long before a 15 or 16 yr old starts to make noise in the CPL?

And don't forget the black magic of MLS contract rules, that a player may want to avoid if CPL demonstrates that it can be an efficient path to bigger and better things.  For may young players, getting into MLS is not their pinnacle aspiration.  Especially when they are idealistic, it would be viewed by many as a stepping stone.  CPL may offer the chance to skip it for promising youth talent.  

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Is it possible that one of the groups are ready? Or can be ready by spring?  Even a pop up takes time.  As much as I would like to see that 8th team, I would hate for whoever it is to be slapped together willy nilly.  Although any ownership groups out there should have had all summer to look at what is working/not working with the existing 7 teams (ie pricing/venues/marketing etc).  

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If I'm Ottawa I'm looking at the CPL right now and thinking, we could be pushing the idea of being in the CPL finals likely on CBC, qualifying for Concacaf League. But instead what is the proposition to fans.. We're fighting for 8th place likely to just go away in an opening round, against whoever fc with no real objective in mind

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1 hour ago, nighttrain said:

Just a guess that it will be a Quebec team....

I wouldn't get too excited over this. As subsequently pointed out by another York 9 fan (judging by the twitter handle that looks very familiar from Reddit), the season format that is being used actually works better with 8 teams and season ticket renewals are already underway elsewhere in CanPL:

 

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7 hours ago, The Real Marc said:

Your post neither responds to nor mitigates the fact that having a Canadian passport means you 

a) are competing for fewer available spots on a US team
b) face extra administrative hurdles to play on a US team, and
c) face competition from Americans without similar hurdles to play on a Canadian team. (Not to mention the question of how many of our Canadians would qualify for an EB1-A based on exceptional ability as a squad player.)

Those rules don't deter a Frank Yallop or Dwayne De Rosario but that's not who anyone is talking about when they bring up this situation; they are talking about the Marco Rizis or Felix Brilliants and even the Chris Pozniaks. In a cross-border league, it is discriminatory. In a league that uses star acquisitions to draw fans and drive interest, it is a killer blow. It is one - of course not the only one - but is a big reason for a lack of Canadians in the league.

I'm not sure where you're the info about Canadians taking International slots on US based MLS teams. The only one that I see in this category is Raheem Edwards, the rest all have domestic status. 

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You are using survior bias here. Saying Edwards is the only example doesnt disprove, it proves it.  MLS teams wont use a INT spot on a CDN, therefore wont sign a CDN (who isnt domestic status). Saying its not a problem because only one player is seemingly effected is the wrong conclusion to draw from the stats.  

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23 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

You are using survior bias here. Saying Edwards is the only example doesnt disprove, it proves it.  MLS teams wont use a INT spot on a CDN, therefore wont sign a CDN (who isnt domestic status). Saying its not a problem because only one player is seemingly effected is the wrong conclusion to draw from the stats.  

Survivor bias.

That’s a friggin “like” for you.

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14 hours ago, narduch said:

For all we know more players may choose the Jonathan David route and skip MLS altogether. Nobody can say for certain 

Canadian MLS teams probably would have had him rotting on the bench in favor of some foreign veteran. 

Maybe, but that would be a flaw with the Canadian MLS teams and not with MLS.

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Make of this what you will:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianPL/comments/d95prs/rumour_12_just_heard_that_canpls_work_on_the_8th/f1fb67z?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

A guy through my kids soccer, said he got a phone call on Friday (I saw him Saturday morning) to see if he can get some things started to be ready for the up coming season. I had asked if they were going to be here for 2021 and he said they are trying to make a push for the 2020 season.

This guy is heavily involved with soccer from youth up to FIFA.

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On 9/25/2019 at 2:21 PM, SpursFlu said:

If I'm Ottawa I'm looking at the CPL right now and thinking, we could be pushing the idea of being in the CPL finals likely on CBC, qualifying for Concacaf League. But instead what is the proposition to fans.. We're fighting for 8th place likely to just go away in an opening round, against whoever fc with no real objective in mind

They have a real objective - to get a home playoff game, otherwise they feel they will have underachieved.

I know this because I went to a Fury Q&A with JdG last Wednesday. The question of joining CPL never came up, but some people did ask if they had a scouting network since there looked to be a number of CanPL players that could fit the roster. JdG basically said that he was the scouting network, using video footage and CPL/USL stats to discuss team requirements with the coaching staff. He also said that he was getting enough support from the owners and they were looking for players that fit the coaches model of play. They want difference makers, of which a good team needs about 14 of them and he felt the Fury only had about 4 to 6. They also want the team built with a foundation of Canadian players with everyone fighting for a spot in the starting XI.

After the Q&A, another supporter told me that his ticket rep couldn't tell him which league the Fury would be playing in next year while discussing season ticket renewals. This is interesting because the renewal deadline for Fury season tickets is September 30th and you have to call them if you don't want to renew. Don't USL clubs have to declare if they will be playing in the USL for the 2020 season on that date? 

Edited by Initial B

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I wasn't referring to an objective of success from a footballing perspective but as a storyline to create interest in the team. My thought is that if Ottawa played this year or next in the CPL they would be at the top of the table. So right now it would be a 3 horse race to make the CPL league final. That to me would drive interest and buzz. Alternatively your trying to qualify for a 16 team playoff against teams that have zero chance of away support in your stadium or any connectivity to your community or culture? Meh.. kinda boring

Edited by SpursFlu

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1 hour ago, Initial B said:

They have a real objective - to get a home playoff game, otherwise they feel they will have underachieved.

 

Huh

They are in the 8th and final playoff spot. 10 points out of a home playoff game with 7 matches left. Sounds like a daunting task. 

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