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CPL new teams speculation

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12 minutes ago, Kent said:

What has proved this? ...

Nothing complex on this. If they had a TFC affiliated team on board as they easily could have had they would have had 8 at launch. If the Impact and Whitecaps had followed they could have had 10. I doubt the optics of having these teams on board would have been any worse than York 9 or FCE games are at the moment and who knows maybe it would have worked better. If the Canadian Championship has shown anything this season it's that an MLS angle appears to be a big draw rather than something that is off-putting to fans in CanPL markets.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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Depends how it was handled. Having a team at Downsview would be a bad move but moving them out to somewhere like Kitchener or London, which otherwise would not have a team could have drawn a regular crowd with local branding and a few local players thrown into the mix.

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9 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

As much as I refuse to support the Fury until/unless they move to CPL, its kinda hard to call them a reserve team. They don't exactly give a lot of playing time to most of the players that they take on. I am not even sure what the point of these loans are

They havnt done too bad.  Crepeau benefited greatly, TMG is getting tons of playing time.  The TFC guys are a mixed bag (Daniels and Boskovic have at least played some, Hundal should have gone to Y9).  I know most dont want to see too much of it, but the clubs should be able to make good use of the CPL for players that need minutes.  For example, what happened to Dunn-Johnson..has he been injured or just taken a year off??  A guy like that could have spent the summer in Winnipeg helping us out.  When that 8th team is announced, there will still be good CDN players looking for opportunities.  

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5 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

They havnt done too bad.  Crepeau benefited greatly, TMG is getting tons of playing time.  The TFC guys are a mixed bag (Daniels and Boskovic have at least played some, Hundal should have gone to Y9).  I know most dont want to see too much of it, but the clubs should be able to make good use of the CPL for players that need minutes.  For example, what happened to Dunn-Johnson..has he been injured or just taken a year off??  A guy like that could have spent the summer in Winnipeg helping us out.  When that 8th team is announced, there will still be good CDN players looking for opportunities.  

I agree, I just find it a bit asinine for people to keep calling them a reserve team. I know they have an "affiliation" or whatever that means with Montreal and Toronto but giving playing time to one player from each team doesn't make them a reserve team.

I also think that some of those guys, Daniels for example, would have been better served playing in CPL. He did quite well with the reserves last year (at least from a stats perspective) so you would have thought he would have made a leap this year. In 2018, 1500 minutes with 2 goals for a bottom USL team plus an MLS appearance, then the next year at a mid table USL team gets 160 minutes. Doesn't add up to me

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10 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Nothing complex on this. If they had a TFC affiliated team on board as they easily could have had they would have had 8 at launch. If the Impact and Whitecaps had followed they could have had 10. I doubt the optics of having these teams on board would have been any worse than York 9 or FCE games are at the moment and who knows maybe it would have worked better. If the Canadian Championship has shown anything this season it's that an MLS angle appears to be a big draw rather than something that is off-putting to fans in CanPL markets.

https://www.eightysixforever.com/2010/11/17/1817524/ten-targets-for-a-canadian-second-division

I remember this article from 9 years ago and it was mentioned that in the Part One :Minor League Soccer section that TFC IMFC and VWFC could have put their reserve teams into a Canadian league but rebranded them and turned them into affiliates  that would have their own names, colors, fan bases where MLS would loan their players.

In that context, VWFC would put their team in Langley or Surrey and called it Valley FC, IMFC would have their team in Quebec City, and Toronto could have had their team in Lamport or Varsity Stadium York FC.

In the case of IMFC and VWFC it would better NOT to have the 2 or B team in the same city as it would draw very few fans, as has what has happened every time a junior hockey team has been set up in Montreal or Vancouver or Laval.

just a thought.

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6 minutes ago, Impactsupporter said:

https://www.eightysixforever.com/2010/11/17/1817524/ten-targets-for-a-canadian-second-division

I remember this article from 9 years ago and it was mentioned that in the Part One :Minor League Soccer section that TFC IMFC and VWFC could have put their reserve teams into a Canadian league but rebranded them and turned them into affiliates  that would have their own names, colors, fan bases where MLS would loan their players.

In that context, VWFC would put their team in Langley or Surrey and called it Valley FC, IMFC would have their team in Quebec City, and Toronto could have had their team in Lamport or Varsity Stadium York FC.

In the case of IMFC and VWFC it would better NOT to have the 2 or B team in the same city as it would draw very few fans, as has what has happened every time a junior hockey team has been set up in Montreal or Vancouver or Laval.

just a thought.

I just think that when you have a team that has a very narrow focus you will alienate fans.

For example, Ottawa is outside of Montreal and was used as an Impact "Reserve" team. I can imagine that at that point any TFC fans that live in Ottawa are much less likely to attend a Fury game knowing that they are affiliated with a rival. I still went to a few games, even as a TFC fan, but I am a fan of the national team more than TFC, which would not be the case for many people I don't think

This is probably a bit of an extreme example as Ottawa is smack dab in the middle of Toronto and Montreal but I still think that having an affiliate team in another city will stop a fair amount of people from being interested

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I would have avoided the 'burbs on this as what has unfolded with York 9 shouldn't have been a surprise. The way it could have been done is to tell the MLS teams that their way in is to help the league build up marginal markets to the point that they can eventually fly solo. 

If there was a group kicking the wheels a bit from Sherbrooke, an Impact affiliate branded something like l'Impact de Sherbrooke would have been a good way to get the show on the road with a somewhat scaled down set of requirements on the stadium etc, or they could have had a completely unrelated name like the Trois Rivieres Attak did back in the day when they were playing in the latter day CSL as a thinly disguised Impact reserve team. Whatever works.

Ditto Kitchener where Barry Maclean was concerned with a TFC Kitchener or whatever. If there really was interest in Kelowna as rumoured get the show on the road with a Kelowna Whitecaps. Ten rather than seven at launch would have made things much less monotonous through the course of the season and could have enabled an east-west format. 

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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FFS, how well has the TFC affliated team done in USL?? Did they ever draw more than 500??  DIdnt the other MLS teams shut theirs down??  Why do some people keep pushing this idea??  If CPL really wanted a **** team for the 8th team, they could have gotten one.  TFC2 didnt have a stadium worked out and are playing at BMO training grounds now.  CPL didnt want to rush another team and have a weak team that only draws <3000 people (and I'll leave it up to Mr parrot to speculate how many of the 170 TFC2 fans actually paid for a ticket/since he likes to speculate on that "ad nauseum").  Why does anyone think that MLS affliates in CPL would do any better than they did in the USL?? 

Having disinterested M|LS owners that are only running the team at a loss to get some minutes for their young kids is not what CPL wants, and I dont know why us fans would want it too.  JESUS..the same dudes that said CPL couldnt get off the ground without MLS reserve teams are now spouting we need them for season 2??  After we just had a fine season without them???  And saying a reserve MLS squad would somehow big a BIG draw because playing the senior MLS side was in the Can championship, is a complete falicy.  Y9 for all their problems are drawing 2-3 times what TFC2 were in USL.  

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27 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Nothing complex on this. If they had a TFC affiliated team on board as they easily could have had they would have had 8 at launch. If the Impact and Whitecaps had followed they could have had 10. I doubt the optics of having these teams on board would have been any worse than York 9 or FCE games are at the moment and who knows maybe it would have worked better. If the Canadian Championship has shown anything this season it's that an MLS angle appears to be a big draw rather than something that is off-putting to fans in CanPL markets.

I know. The league knows.  Anyone who is a TFC, VWFC, Impact supporter or most people on this board know. 

You LOVE to rip on Y9 man.  Almost every post.  

I feel like the parrot because I keep repeating myself.  Y9 attendance is about where I thought it would be heading into the inaugural season. I'm sure the people who put the money behind the club and had all kinds of analysis done had a good idea where they expected to be.  

Do you know anything about York Region?  The people?  The market?  This isn't Halifax where people aren't used to having their own pro sports team.  Your trying to sell an inferior quality league to what is available 40 minutes away to many people who have held season tickets to TFC for multiple years.  York Region has the population but the market has always been a long play.  Stop acting like it is some kind of shock that they are lower on attendance than others.

A loan here or there from an MLS side is fine but to explicitly put reserve teams in the league and try to market it as "Premier" would've been laughed at.  Attendance would be in the 10's (I'm not missing a 0 there) in those cities.  Allowing MLS reserve teams would've killed this league from the get go and good owners wouldn't have bought in to it.  This is why that was not done.  

From wherever you are please tell me how would having MLS reserve teams result in better attendance league wide?  Please explain how TFCII would draw better than Y9?  How VWII would outdraw Pacific?  

 

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24 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

DIdnt the other MLS teams shut theirs down??

They shut them down because they were too cheap to take losses to provide those playing opportunities for their younger players.

I do agree with the overall point that MLS2 teams shouldn't be in CPL, though.

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1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Nothing complex on this. If they had a TFC affiliated team on board as they easily could have had they would have had 8 at launch. If the Impact and Whitecaps had followed they could have had 10. I doubt the optics of having these teams on board would have been any worse than York 9 or FCE games are at the moment and who knows maybe it would have worked better. If the Canadian Championship has shown anything this season it's that an MLS angle appears to be a big draw rather than something that is off-putting to fans in CanPL markets.

So it looks like you think your premise proves itself. If they had another team, you add that team to what they currently have, and that makes a bigger number.

By the same logic they would have been better off adding random men's league teams to the league. Or heck, random U12 teams to the league. Because they have 7 teams but if they brought in Sudbury U12 Boys into the league they would have 8. OMG WHY DIDN'T THEY THINK OF THIS!!!!

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What also proves the premise is that the league has not expanded to 10 teams by 2020 as David Clanachan was saying it would in the not too distant past. They made life more difficult for themselves on that than it needed to be.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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8 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

What also proves the premise is that the league has not expanded to 10 teams by 2020 as David Clanachan was saying it would in the not too distant past. They made life more difficult for themselves on that than it needed to be.

In fairness Clanachan has always seemed to oversell things. I take everything he has to say with a grain of salt, just as I do for some others

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Wow, the commish oversold the league.  What an outrage, better get clutching your pearls.  Kind of like MLS saying they are going to be a world class top league "ad nauseum" for the last decade??   Or that USL is the best 2nd div in the world??  Try giving your hometown league the same treatment you would give the american ones eh??  

What premise does team 8-10 not being ready by 2020 go to  prove??  That its not easy to start a club from scratch??  Or that retread folded once already by non committed MLS owner,  reserve teams are the answer??  

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Oversold its short to medium term growth prospects would be about right. If it is a single entity and Bob Young is willing to be its Phil Anschutz if need be, there's plenty of time to figure out how to make it all work, if there's no danger of a couple of investors pulling their privately owned clubs out and sinking the whole ship in an original CSL sort of way.

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Another year with 7 clubs only isn't ideal but curious to see the level of play increase and how teams adjusts next season. They should have a better idea of who belongs and who doesn't.

2021 will be a great year for the league who could be welcoming many new teams.

Edited by Ansem

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13 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The normal protocol is for new pro teams is for them to be accepted into CSA membership first at the CSA's AGM, so if there is no huge rush involved early May will probably be the timing on franchise announcements related to a 2021 launch. If the rumoured team #8 was going to be at the Langley Events Centre, I think they have probably made a good decision assuming Duane Rollins is correct and they are holding off for now. They need the next club/franchise to be added to be another Halifax rather than a Pacific or York 9 and a Greater Vancouver team in the very outer fringes of suburbia was high risk to be the latter.

There may not be another Halifax though, like there hasn't been another FC Cincinatti for USL. Not so easy to point to HFX and think it can be replicated in another small market. If there's 1 or 2 more markets than could start out like Halifax that would be great, we'll see over the next few years.

The league does need to be in the 3 major media markets though, as Canada's Division 1, and the league has said as much. They are big enough to to support an MLS and CPL club. The CPL club just needs to be done right, in an area far enough removed from the direct MLS market and with a sound plan, resources, and patience, etc.

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A GTA based CPL team will find it difficult no matter which of the 9 cities in York Region (I’m being facetious) it’s located in. So just a hunch that it would be better suited farther from the GTA than it is now, which really only means Durham or Oakville. Mississauga should work, but only with a city centre stadium. York9 playing some games in Newmarket or Aurora?? Maybe. But until CPL gobbles up players from Vaughan Azzurri or Woodbridge Strikers, it makes it harder to stay near York U. 

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22 minutes ago, nighttrain said:

A GTA based CPL team will find it difficult no matter which of the 9 cities in York Region (I’m being facetious) it’s located in. So just a hunch that it would be better suited farther from the GTA than it is now, which really only means Durham or Oakville. Mississauga should work, but only with a city centre stadium. York9 playing some games in Newmarket or Aurora?? Maybe. But until CPL gobbles up players from Vaughan Azzurri or Woodbridge Strikers, it makes it harder to stay near York U. 

Mississauga and Durham our be similar situations to York 9. Mississauga may far better, it will come down to how much city pride they have. Off the bat Mississauga have more of an identity than York or Durham region, we typically don’t say I live in York Region. 
 

I would love to see them both in the league but patience will be needed with them as with Y9 or any other club that starts up within spitting distance of an MLS club. 
 

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Make of this what you will:

but I think this one is best filed under F for far-fetched given the lack of an easy stadium solution at very short notice. If it isn't being made up for ***** and giggles maybe someone senior at the league is telling different people close to the inner circle different scenarios to see who leaks the info out in a Tyrion in GoT with Myrcella or whatever she was called sort of way. 

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