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CPL new teams speculation

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8 hours ago, Blackdude said:

 If there was a true expansion team that came from a lower level or out of nowhere, it would have been announced already.

I've always figured that for next year, if there is a new team to announce, or there is an announcement that there are no new teams, it will be made in the lead-up to, or during, the first championship game, Oct 26. That will be the most impactful time to announce a new team, and also a good time to bury the "no new team" story within the excitement of the finals, etc etc.....

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9 minutes ago, CanSuffer said:

I've always figured that for next year, if there is a new team to announce, or there is an announcement that there are no new teams, it will be made in the lead-up to, or during, the first championship game, Oct 26. That will be the most impactful time to announce a new team, and also a good time to bury the "no new team" story within the excitement of the finals, etc etc.....

It would be at the worst time for the new team though. I mean sure CPL could announce a team in a place nobody cares because they didn't talk about it there. IF they want to announce a team for 2021, yes, go for it,  so it allows the team to market itself for 1+ year before its first match.

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The normal protocol is for new pro teams is for them to be accepted into CSA membership first at the CSA's AGM, so if there is no huge rush involved early May will probably be the timing on franchise announcements related to a 2021 launch. If the rumoured team #8 was going to be at the Langley Events Centre, I think they have probably made a good decision assuming Duane Rollins is correct and they are holding off for now. They need the next club/franchise to be added to be another Halifax rather than a Pacific or York 9 and a Greater Vancouver team in the very outer fringes of suburbia was high risk to be the latter.

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1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

They need the next club/franchise to be added to be another Halifax rather than a Pacific or York 9 and a Greater Vancouver team in the very outer fringes of suburbia was high risk to be the latter.

There's no franchise in the league

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I honestly like Duane's work but that was some kinda ********. His "big news" was what we have been saying on this forum for weeks, maybe months: no new teams for 2020.  

That is a huge disappointment but I think the silver lining is that 2021 will see a team in the Lower mainland of BC and one in Quebec somewhere. That means everyone involved sees the league planning for 2021 which frankly is a huge win when you look a the number of naysayers who claimed the league wouldn't even kick off, then said it would fold in year one.

#seeyounextyear

Edited by ted
mis-typed "kick" LOL

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What I remember being pointed out was that they were making life needlessly difficult for themselves on reaching 8 or 10 by excluding MLS affiliates and so it has proved. Could easily be Saskatoon at Prairieland as team #8 in 2021, if Joe Belan is to be believed. The success in Halifax means they shouldn't be scared of relatively small markets with no CFL team if the stadium location is favourable. Don't think they should do the lower mainland unless they get access to a suitable stadium location close to the Skytrain like the BC Lions training ground in Surrey that sometimes gets rumoured. A Quebec team would also probably have happened by now if it was easy to do from a stadium standpoint, so another year might not make much difference there.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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53 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

What I remember being pointed out was that they were making life needlessly difficult for themselves on reaching 8 or 10 by excluding MLS affiliates and so it has proved.

Whitecaps 2 lasted three seasons before folding

FC Montreal lasted two seasons before folding

TFCII's best finish ever was third last before self relegating

This isn't exactly the type of commitment you are looking for when trying to build a national league

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1 minute ago, Viruk42 said:

Wait, I thought USL wanted to keep the Fury? 🙃

As much as I refuse to support the Fury until/unless they move to CPL, its kinda hard to call them a reserve team. They don't exactly give a lot of playing time to most of the players that they take on. I am not even sure what the point of these loans are

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58 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

What I remember being pointed out was that they were making life needlessly difficult for themselves on reaching 8 or 10 by excluding MLS affiliates and so it has proved.

What has proved this? The lack of expansion for 2020 proves that they would have done better with MLS affiliates? Even if you can dig up some link somewhere that says Vancouver wanted to put a team in Red Deer or something for the CPL and weren't allowed to that wouldn't prove it. There are too many variables. Maybe FC Edmonton wouldn't have joined if MLS affiliates were involved. We know they didn't want to go to USL, so they have a track record of standing their ground. Maybe other teams wouldn't want to be involved either.

Nothing is "proved" by there not being any expansion for 2020 other than the fact that there won't be any expansion for 2020.

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2 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

As much as I refuse to support the Fury until/unless they move to CPL, its kinda hard to call them a reserve team. They don't exactly give a lot of playing time to most of the players that they take on. I am not even sure what the point of these loans are

Worst of both worlds I suppose?

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12 minutes ago, Kent said:

What has proved this? ...

Nothing complex on this. If they had a TFC affiliated team on board as they easily could have had they would have had 8 at launch. If the Impact and Whitecaps had followed they could have had 10. I doubt the optics of having these teams on board would have been any worse than York 9 or FCE games are at the moment and who knows maybe it would have worked better. If the Canadian Championship has shown anything this season it's that an MLS angle appears to be a big draw rather than something that is off-putting to fans in CanPL markets.

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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Depends how it was handled. Having a team at Downsview would be a bad move but moving them out to somewhere like Kitchener or London, which otherwise would not have a team could have drawn a regular crowd with local branding and a few local players thrown into the mix.

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9 minutes ago, deschamp86 said:

As much as I refuse to support the Fury until/unless they move to CPL, its kinda hard to call them a reserve team. They don't exactly give a lot of playing time to most of the players that they take on. I am not even sure what the point of these loans are

They havnt done too bad.  Crepeau benefited greatly, TMG is getting tons of playing time.  The TFC guys are a mixed bag (Daniels and Boskovic have at least played some, Hundal should have gone to Y9).  I know most dont want to see too much of it, but the clubs should be able to make good use of the CPL for players that need minutes.  For example, what happened to Dunn-Johnson..has he been injured or just taken a year off??  A guy like that could have spent the summer in Winnipeg helping us out.  When that 8th team is announced, there will still be good CDN players looking for opportunities.  

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5 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

They havnt done too bad.  Crepeau benefited greatly, TMG is getting tons of playing time.  The TFC guys are a mixed bag (Daniels and Boskovic have at least played some, Hundal should have gone to Y9).  I know most dont want to see too much of it, but the clubs should be able to make good use of the CPL for players that need minutes.  For example, what happened to Dunn-Johnson..has he been injured or just taken a year off??  A guy like that could have spent the summer in Winnipeg helping us out.  When that 8th team is announced, there will still be good CDN players looking for opportunities.  

I agree, I just find it a bit asinine for people to keep calling them a reserve team. I know they have an "affiliation" or whatever that means with Montreal and Toronto but giving playing time to one player from each team doesn't make them a reserve team.

I also think that some of those guys, Daniels for example, would have been better served playing in CPL. He did quite well with the reserves last year (at least from a stats perspective) so you would have thought he would have made a leap this year. In 2018, 1500 minutes with 2 goals for a bottom USL team plus an MLS appearance, then the next year at a mid table USL team gets 160 minutes. Doesn't add up to me

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10 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Nothing complex on this. If they had a TFC affiliated team on board as they easily could have had they would have had 8 at launch. If the Impact and Whitecaps had followed they could have had 10. I doubt the optics of having these teams on board would have been any worse than York 9 or FCE games are at the moment and who knows maybe it would have worked better. If the Canadian Championship has shown anything this season it's that an MLS angle appears to be a big draw rather than something that is off-putting to fans in CanPL markets.

https://www.eightysixforever.com/2010/11/17/1817524/ten-targets-for-a-canadian-second-division

I remember this article from 9 years ago and it was mentioned that in the Part One :Minor League Soccer section that TFC IMFC and VWFC could have put their reserve teams into a Canadian league but rebranded them and turned them into affiliates  that would have their own names, colors, fan bases where MLS would loan their players.

In that context, VWFC would put their team in Langley or Surrey and called it Valley FC, IMFC would have their team in Quebec City, and Toronto could have had their team in Lamport or Varsity Stadium York FC.

In the case of IMFC and VWFC it would better NOT to have the 2 or B team in the same city as it would draw very few fans, as has what has happened every time a junior hockey team has been set up in Montreal or Vancouver or Laval.

just a thought.

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6 minutes ago, Impactsupporter said:

https://www.eightysixforever.com/2010/11/17/1817524/ten-targets-for-a-canadian-second-division

I remember this article from 9 years ago and it was mentioned that in the Part One :Minor League Soccer section that TFC IMFC and VWFC could have put their reserve teams into a Canadian league but rebranded them and turned them into affiliates  that would have their own names, colors, fan bases where MLS would loan their players.

In that context, VWFC would put their team in Langley or Surrey and called it Valley FC, IMFC would have their team in Quebec City, and Toronto could have had their team in Lamport or Varsity Stadium York FC.

In the case of IMFC and VWFC it would better NOT to have the 2 or B team in the same city as it would draw very few fans, as has what has happened every time a junior hockey team has been set up in Montreal or Vancouver or Laval.

just a thought.

I just think that when you have a team that has a very narrow focus you will alienate fans.

For example, Ottawa is outside of Montreal and was used as an Impact "Reserve" team. I can imagine that at that point any TFC fans that live in Ottawa are much less likely to attend a Fury game knowing that they are affiliated with a rival. I still went to a few games, even as a TFC fan, but I am a fan of the national team more than TFC, which would not be the case for many people I don't think

This is probably a bit of an extreme example as Ottawa is smack dab in the middle of Toronto and Montreal but I still think that having an affiliate team in another city will stop a fair amount of people from being interested

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I would have avoided the 'burbs on this as what has unfolded with York 9 shouldn't have been a surprise. The way it could have been done is to tell the MLS teams that their way in is to help the league build up marginal markets to the point that they can eventually fly solo. 

If there was a group kicking the wheels a bit from Sherbrooke, an Impact affiliate branded something like l'Impact de Sherbrooke would have been a good way to get the show on the road with a somewhat scaled down set of requirements on the stadium etc, or they could have had a completely unrelated name like the Trois Rivieres Attak did back in the day when they were playing in the latter day CSL as a thinly disguised Impact reserve team. Whatever works.

Ditto Kitchener where Barry Maclean was concerned with a TFC Kitchener or whatever. If there really was interest in Kelowna as rumoured get the show on the road with a Kelowna Whitecaps. Ten rather than seven at launch would have made things much less monotonous through the course of the season and could have enabled an east-west format. 

Edited by Ozzie_the_parrot

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FFS, how well has the TFC affliated team done in USL?? Did they ever draw more than 500??  DIdnt the other MLS teams shut theirs down??  Why do some people keep pushing this idea??  If CPL really wanted a **** team for the 8th team, they could have gotten one.  TFC2 didnt have a stadium worked out and are playing at BMO training grounds now.  CPL didnt want to rush another team and have a weak team that only draws <3000 people (and I'll leave it up to Mr parrot to speculate how many of the 170 TFC2 fans actually paid for a ticket/since he likes to speculate on that "ad nauseum").  Why does anyone think that MLS affliates in CPL would do any better than they did in the USL?? 

Having disinterested M|LS owners that are only running the team at a loss to get some minutes for their young kids is not what CPL wants, and I dont know why us fans would want it too.  JESUS..the same dudes that said CPL couldnt get off the ground without MLS reserve teams are now spouting we need them for season 2??  After we just had a fine season without them???  And saying a reserve MLS squad would somehow big a BIG draw because playing the senior MLS side was in the Can championship, is a complete falicy.  Y9 for all their problems are drawing 2-3 times what TFC2 were in USL.  

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27 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Nothing complex on this. If they had a TFC affiliated team on board as they easily could have had they would have had 8 at launch. If the Impact and Whitecaps had followed they could have had 10. I doubt the optics of having these teams on board would have been any worse than York 9 or FCE games are at the moment and who knows maybe it would have worked better. If the Canadian Championship has shown anything this season it's that an MLS angle appears to be a big draw rather than something that is off-putting to fans in CanPL markets.

I know. The league knows.  Anyone who is a TFC, VWFC, Impact supporter or most people on this board know. 

You LOVE to rip on Y9 man.  Almost every post.  

I feel like the parrot because I keep repeating myself.  Y9 attendance is about where I thought it would be heading into the inaugural season. I'm sure the people who put the money behind the club and had all kinds of analysis done had a good idea where they expected to be.  

Do you know anything about York Region?  The people?  The market?  This isn't Halifax where people aren't used to having their own pro sports team.  Your trying to sell an inferior quality league to what is available 40 minutes away to many people who have held season tickets to TFC for multiple years.  York Region has the population but the market has always been a long play.  Stop acting like it is some kind of shock that they are lower on attendance than others.

A loan here or there from an MLS side is fine but to explicitly put reserve teams in the league and try to market it as "Premier" would've been laughed at.  Attendance would be in the 10's (I'm not missing a 0 there) in those cities.  Allowing MLS reserve teams would've killed this league from the get go and good owners wouldn't have bought in to it.  This is why that was not done.  

From wherever you are please tell me how would having MLS reserve teams result in better attendance league wide?  Please explain how TFCII would draw better than Y9?  How VWII would outdraw Pacific?  

 

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