The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[Kent]

As a big CPL fan I will say this, "phenomenal success" is probably too strong. If the CPL were a person, it would be at the crawling stage or maybe taking its first steps.

Think back to when we knew which teams were going to play in season 1, but a ball hadn't been kicked. If you asked people then what their expectations would be for season 5, most (not all) people would say there would be more than 8 teams. Probably all would say the average attendance would be higher than 3,176 (that's what it was last year, we will see if it's higher or lower this season) and probably most would say higher than 5k. I'm not sure how many would say they think there will be highlights on Sportsnet or TSN's news shows, but that would definitely be considered a marker of success. As a York 9 United fan I would have been saying they should have their newly built stadium by season 5 as well (but to balance that out I think there is work in progress on Pacific's stadium getting improvements, right? Not sure about Halifax?)

The level of play surprised me with how good it was in season 1, but viewership, general awareness of the league, attendance at games, these things don't seem to have met our initial expectations. So I can see how it could be considered to not yet be a success, never mind a "phenomenal success".

It has done a lot of good, and I think it is slowly trending in the correct direction, but I think the league is still not at phenomenal success territory yet. Let's get 5k or 6k to be the league average attendance. Let's get 10+ teams in the league. Let's get the league air time on the big sports networks and not just in the plays/misplays of the month.

[Cicero]

11 minutes ago, gigi riva said:

Which leads me to this question . What is Canada's best Soccer city . Is it Toronto ? Vancouver  or Woodbridge  . I am wondering what people think

There are too many possible criteria for that question which would likely have different answers: the best soccer infrastructure and youth development, the best Canada Soccer fandom, the best overall soccer fandom, best at producing professionals... I doubt the actual City of Toronto would win on any per capita, but it's just so much bigger than everywhere else that it might seem like it. Likewise, the actual City of Vancouver I can say with certainty would not win on any count, but some of the suburbs might be up there.

[Kent]

14 minutes ago, gigi riva said:

Which leads me to this question . What is Canada's best Soccer city . Is it Toronto ? Vancouver  or Woodbridge  . I am wondering what people think

I was going to post a picture of the sign to this place where I used to play men's league, but I couldn't find a pic and it's apparently closed so I guess this one isn't the best after all.

[Cicero]

1 minute ago, Kent said:

I was going to post a picture of the sign to this place where I used to play men's league, but I couldn't find a pic and it's apparently closed so I guess this one isn't the best after all.

Another ill-conceived pot growing scheme maybe, like Player's Paradise in Hamilton? Fortunately the company went broke before they ruined the facility, so now it's back to soccer under new ownership.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

43 minutes ago, shermanator said:

One of the great myths in Canadian soccer is that Edmonton is a soccer city.

It’s not, or at least, it hasn’t been in the dozen years I’ve been hyper focused on Canadian soccer. Edmonton shows up for the big events like the Women’s World Cup or a qualifying run where the whole country has jumped on the bandwagon (and have since jumped off), but they have shown time and time again that the local professional game just doesn’t matter to them.

Take it from someone who’s been to Clarke for games during the CPL era, the product that was put out was professional in name only. It paralleled PDL / USL League 2 in the experience. Comparing that to what I’ve seen at Spruce Meadows and Starlight, it’s night and day. The Fath’s and FC Edmonton have done immeasurable damage to the professional game in that city. That's not on CPL. That's on them.

Maybe one day an ownership group who takes the game seriously will come in, put out a product that is attractive to both the hardcore and casual soccer fan, and can build some momentum. Maybe Edmonton will be a great League1 Alberta city and that will build something grassroots, but most people I know who stuck around until the bitter end have given up.

Unfortunately my experience overall.  I loved to see my old employer sponsor FC Edmonton the last few years but a lot of friends from my time there are not interested in local professional soccer. They are international fans (even some Canadian ones), European football fans and many worked in grassroots soccer.  I would have to put their lack of interest down to the poor experience.

 

On a side note.  Because of some family health issues it looks like I might be in southern Alberta for an extended time/maybe permanently. I will have to go against ever fibre of my young being and support a Calgary team to get my live football fix. Would it be okay to message you, if it all happens?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

33 minutes ago, Cicero said:

There are too many possible criteria for that question which would likely have different answers: the best soccer infrastructure and youth development, the best Canada Soccer fandom, the best overall soccer fandom, best at producing professionals... I doubt the actual City of Toronto would win on any per capita, ...

Who knows all the cities across Canada well enough to answer a question like this? All I would say on this is that outside the GTA in southern Ontario there is probably less of the Italian vs British divide thing going on and there can be better dedicated soccer facilities available with each of the big post-WWII immigrant communities having their own ethnic social clubs with soccer fields attached that could accomodate a crowd of paying spectators so Toronto shouldn't automatically be regarded as the top dog on this in all aspects even though sheer size of population means that it is inevitably going to come out on top in some categories.

[shermanator]

31 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Unfortunately my experience overall.  I loved to see my old employer sponsor FC Edmonton the last few years but a lot of friends from my time there are not interested in local professional soccer. They are international fans (even some Canadian ones), European football fans and many worked in grassroots soccer.  I would have to put their lack of interest down to the poor experience.

 

On a side note.  Because of some family health issues it looks like I might be in southern Alberta for an extended time/maybe permanently. I will have to go against ever fibre of my young being and support a Calgary team to get my live football fix. Would it be okay to message you, if it all happens?

Absolutely. Feel free to hit me up. 

[Metro]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

I was going to post a picture of the sign to this place where I used to play men's league, but I couldn't find a pic and it's apparently closed so I guess this one isn't the best after all.

Wow, Soccer City closed? That's a shame.

The rashes that turf would give my legs were quite memorable!

[El Hombre]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

A reminder that what was being responded to by pointing out that FC Edmonton recently folded was the notion that CanPL has been a phenomenal success.

A reminder that the FC Edmonton strawman actually came about because someone said that anyone considering CanPL a "success" (not even phenomenal, but just a success) was doing so only out of jingoistic nationalism and not about what has happened on the field or the stands.

Exhibit A:

5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

You guys will claim it is a success regardless of what actually happens because you see it as your patriotic duty to support it no matter what because it has Canadian in its name. If it had really been a phenomenal success, FC Edmonton would not have just folded, the CMNT and CWNT players would view the CSB deal as beneficial, and there would be no hearings in Ottawa right now.

[El Hombre]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

I was going to post a picture of the sign to this place where I used to play men's league, but I couldn't find a pic and it's apparently closed so I guess this one isn't the best after all.

There we have it folks: proof positive that Etobicoke should join Liga MX and not CanPL.  Did I get that right? 

Can't wait to see Real Inter Soccer City Inc. FC go up against Xolos or Chivas in the Clausura!

[Watchmen]

2 hours ago, gigi riva said:

Which leads me to this question . What is Canada's best Soccer city . Is it Toronto ? Vancouver  or Woodbridge  . I am wondering what people think

I am begging you not to start this debate on what is already a dumpster fire of a thread.

[dyslexic nam]

50 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I am begging you not to start this debate on what is already a dumpster fire of a thread.

-1  x -1 = 1

Just sayin.  

[Aird25]

This should make the women happy. CRTC rules in favour of OneSoccer. I imagine games will be available more broadly on TV soon 

https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2023/2023-94.htm

[Watchmen]

13 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

-1  x -1 = 1

Just sayin.  

I'd settle for -1 × -1 + (-1) and just getting this thing back to neutral. 

[dyslexic nam]

9 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I'd settle for -1 × -1 + (-1) and just getting this thing back to neutral. 

Slow down there Pythagoras.  Not everyone got their grade 10.   

[Unnamed Trialist]

17 hours ago, Aird25 said:

This should make the women happy. CRTC rules in favour of OneSoccer. I imagine games will be available more broadly on TV soon 

https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2023/2023-94.htm

Thanks, just read it.

It seems there's no appeal provision, it's a definitive decision that calls on both parties to make proposals.

The only good faith proposal would see OS carried linear by Rogers. The Commission makes no attempt to intervene in the potential economic negotiation, which could hold the implementation up. 

At no time does the commission insist on getting and repeating viewership numbers, but does accept the One Soccer argument that it's %s are growing.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Unnamed Trialist

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

This should make the women happy. CRTC rules in favour of OneSoccer. I imagine games will be available more broadly on TV soon 

https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2023/2023-94.htm

This will be a boost for the league for exposure as people will want to watch national team games. 

[Aird25]

14 minutes ago, Ansem said:

This will be a boost for the league for exposure as people will want to watch national team games. 

Let's hope! I think they just need to reach a bigger audience, and getting on TV could certainly help. So many soccer fans don't seem to know about the league yet.

[red card]

2 hours ago, Aird25 said:

This should make the women happy. CRTC rules in favour of OneSoccer. I imagine games will be available more broadly on TV soon 

https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2023/2023-94.htm

Another issue that the players & many others on social media used to disparage the CSB deal is taken to the wood shed. It's another instance where the players showed they didn't know what they didn't know. 

Though, since CRTC put OneSoccer in the same bucket as Bein, SNW & Euroworld and called OneSoccer a "discretionary service", people will now likely be complaining about having to pay $10+/month for OneSoccer. Edit: maybe cheaper as Telus apparently offers OS for $5/month.

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by red card

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Struggling to see what the relevance of the CRTC decision to this particular thread would be. The Mediapro/Onesoccer angle usually barely rates a mention among the main criticisms of the CSB deal. Those main criticisms would be the absence of a women's pro league despite the involvement of CWNT related sponsorships in the deal, the 10 year unilateral renewal option out to 2037 and the fixed nature of annual payments (beyond the minor annual increments) which means the CSB investors rather than the CSA are the party that benefits from any cash bonanza related to World Cup qualification and/or hosting in any particular year.

Edited March 24, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[CanadaFan123]

15 hours ago, Aird25 said:

This should make the women happy. CRTC rules in favour of OneSoccer. I imagine games will be available more broadly on TV soon 

https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/archive/2023/2023-94.htm

This is huge. Unbelievable how much harm these monopolies do to Canadians, yet we’ve got people believing CSB is the bad guy. This will allow for more revenue/exposure which should help everyone and increase the likelihood of reworking of the CSB deal.

 

[Metro]

5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Struggling to see what the relevance of the CRTC decision to this particular thread would be. The Mediapro/Onesoccer angle usually barely rates a mention among the main criticisms of the CSB deal. Those main criticisms would be the absence of a women's pro league despite the involvement of CWNT related sponsorships in the deal, the 10 year unilateral renewal option out to 2037 and the fixed nature of annual payments (beyond the minor annual increments) which means the CSB investors rather than the CSA are the party that benefits from any cash bonanza related to World Cup qualification and/or hosting in any particular year.

I agree.  This news deserves its own thread.

[Bigandy]

6 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Struggling to see what the relevance of the CRTC decision to this particular thread would be. The Mediapro/Onesoccer angle usually barely rates a mention among the main criticisms of the CSB deal. Those main criticisms would be the absence of a women's pro league despite the involvement of CWNT related sponsorships in the deal, the 10 year unilateral renewal option out to 2037 and the fixed nature of annual payments (beyond the minor annual increments) which means the CSB investors rather than the CSA are the party that benefits from any cash bonanza related to World Cup qualification and/or hosting in any particular year.

I know you're just providing the narrative of the criticism of the CSB deal, but it made me think of a different angle.

You can also flip the script.

It is the CWNT program who benefits from the CSB deal as they used to bring in less than 1million in sponsorship and now they get halfish of the 3 million. We can see that there wasn't much of a bonanza when the women won gold at the olympics or preform decent at the world cup so we know that its highly unlikely that the women will generate more than 1.5 million on their own. The CPL can be viewed as a tool to help increase sponsorship dollars - therefore it could be viewed as an asset to the CWNT as it increases their sponsorship dollars via the CSB deal. 

The only unknown variable is what the bonanza would be for the men, IF the csa leveraged sponsorship deals instead of the CSB. This can be debated (how well the CSA could actually generate sponsorship dollars), but there are 3 other years where there is no bonanza. So it's probably safe to say that we are not talking about massive amounts higher than 3 million during a 4 year average. 

The Investors on the other hand, have to pay out 3 million a year - on top of investing millions into a league that is running at a loss. CSA has a no risk deal, and CSB investors could lose millions. In fact, they a huge risk is being placed on them by the CMNT and CWNT striking as it impacts sponsorship dollars. 

[BearcatSA]

21 hours ago, Kent said:

The level of play surprised me with how good it was in season 1, but viewership,  general awareness of the league, attendance at games, these things don't seem to have met our initial expectations.

If you don't have a broader based media platform to provide viewership, you don't  build (nor maintain) awareness with casual fans.  At least now, One Soccer is available on a Fubo package.  

Personally, I believe that the sell of the summer time pro sports ticket is an understated challenge in a number of areas (and sports) in the North American market.  Consumers have many more recreational options but only so many bucks (and minutes) to go around.  Inflationary times amplify the issue, as well.

[Aird25]

7 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Struggling to see what the relevance of the CRTC decision to this particular thread would be. The Mediapro/Onesoccer angle usually barely rates a mention among the main criticisms of the CSB deal. Those main criticisms would be the absence of a women's pro league despite the involvement of CWNT related sponsorships in the deal, the 10 year unilateral renewal option out to 2037 and the fixed nature of annual payments (beyond the minor annual increments) which means the CSB investors rather than the CSA are the party that benefits from any cash bonanza related to World Cup qualification and/or hosting in any particular year.

Broadcasting is a big part of the CSB deal, and it's been discussed a lot on this thread already. Both sides of the debate, players and CSA, have discussed it during the hearings. The players, while grateful for increased coverage of the national teams, questioned why games still weren't on TV. CSA pointed to the cost of getting games on TV prior to the CSB deal. I would imagine there's also a correlation between viewership and sponsorship potential, and that the success, or failure, of the MediaPro deal may impact decisions to renew the CSB deal at the end of the current term. If MediaPro backs out, and nobody else wants the rights, I can't see the agreement being renewed.