The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Ozzie, who here backs the CPL in bitter opposition to MLS? Pretty sure you won’t find a single CPL fan who doesn’t also watch MLS. 

I literally have TFC season tickets.

[CanadaFan123]

2 minutes ago, narduch said:

I literally have TFC season tickets.

I’m so bitterly opposed to MLS that I stood for 90 minutes in the stands last Saturday in protest.

[narduch]

15 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Any vision he presents is regressive at best. His vision is one where Canadian soccer remains at a grassroots level and the odd token Canadian makes up a squad of foreign players that play in a foreign league. We remain in collective awe over the talents of these foreign players and deride the token Canadians while wondering how the Americans manage to be so much better. Ahhh 2007 was a much better time. 
 

The absolute best thing would be if Toronto gets a CPL team and has the blizzard naming rights. His head will explode.

A lot of people should probably go back and read some articles about what was promised when TFC was awarded. 

In season 1, Americans counted as Internationals on TFC.

But Mo Johnson did a terrible job of running the team. Canadians were used as a scapegoat and the rules were changed. The rest is history as they say.

[CanadaFan123]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

A lot of people should probably go back and read some articles about what was promised when TFC was awarded. 

In season 1, Americans counted as Internationals on TFC.

But Mo Johnson did a terrible job of running the team. Canadians were used as a scapegoat and the rules were changed. The rest is history as they say.

TFC came out of the gates with a roster that wouldn’t make CPL playoffs. It’s not a surprise the way things went the way they did.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

Is there anyway to not only hide the birds posts but also hide any post that quotes the bird?  So many posts to skip over to find actual good faith  debate. 

[Kingston]

12 minutes ago, narduch said:

A lot of people should probably go back and read some articles about what was promised when TFC was awarded. 

In season 1, Americans counted as Internationals on TFC.

But Mo Johnson did a terrible job of running the team. Canadians were used as a scapegoat and the rules were changed. The rest is history as they say.

Not arguing with the thrust of your post, but did Americans count as internationals?  My recollection is that Canadians and Americans always both counted as domestics for TFC but that TFC was initially required to have at least 7 or 8 (?) Canadians and that was what Mo Johnson claimed was holding the team back.  

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

9 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

TFC came out of the gates with a roster that wouldn’t make CPL playoffs. It’s not a surprise the way things went the way they did.

I'll hear no disparaging of a team lead by Danny Dichio 

[CanadaFan123]

2 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I'll hear no disparaging of a team lead by Danny Dichio 

That was Jimmy Brennan’s team but I guess that would exclude York from any criticism so I see what you did there and approve. 

[shermanator]

CPL is going to survive whether people fucking like it or not.

[Cheeta]

32 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Ozzie, who here backs the CPL in bitter opposition to MLS? Pretty sure you won’t find a single CPL fan who doesn’t also watch MLS. 

✋

Edited March 23, 2023 by Cheeta

[shermanator]

Now as for trying to imply that Edmonton failing means CPL will fail, that's laughable. FC Edmonton was a poorly run club from the beginning. Stated this a year ago, but here are a few things that went wrong:

• Marketing heavily in 2010 by bringing in high profile friendlies only to have the first games in 2011 be played on a gridiron football pitch with football lines, bright yellow end zones and stands 20 yards from the pitch.
• Moving to a 1200 seat stadium in 2012 with football lines. Being unable to actually build additional seating for 18 months by trying to skirt the permitting process. Playing on a pitch with football lines until 2014 when the city paid to replace the turf.
• Subjecting fans to Colin Miller's unattractive brand of soccer for 5 years.
• Constant supporter infighting. A weak supporters group that does not contribute to the draw of the atmosphere as in other CPL cities. 
• Ceasing operations in 2017 before joining CPL in 2018. The CPL version of FC Edmonton is seen by casuals as a new club, not the same one.
• Failing to upgrade the game day experience when moving to CPL while at the same time cutting all other expenses.
• Constant losing in both NASL and CPL.
• Finally, the owner pulling the plug and expecting other CPL owners to bail him out.

[Aird25]

3 minutes ago, Cheeta said:

✋

I've watched Vancouver for years, but I'd like just about all of that time back. Does that count?

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

3 minutes ago, shermanator said:

Now as for trying to imply that Edmonton failing means CPL will fail, that's laughable. FC Edmonton was a poorly run club from the beginning. Stated this a year ago, but here are a few things that went wrong:

• Marketing heavily in 2010 by bringing in high profile friendlies only to have the first games in 2011 be played on a gridiron football pitch with football lines, bright yellow end zones and stands 20 yards from the pitch.
• Moving to a 1200 seat stadium in 2012 with football lines. Being unable to actually build additional seating for 18 months by trying to skirt the permitting process. Playing on a pitch with football lines until 2014 when the city paid to replace the turf.
• Subjecting fans to Colin Miller's unattractive brand of soccer for 5 years.
• Constant supporter infighting. A weak supporters group that does not contribute to the draw of the atmosphere as in other CPL cities. 
• Ceasing operations in 2017 before joining CPL in 2018. The CPL version of FC Edmonton is seen by casuals as a new club, not the same one.
• Failing to upgrade the game day experience when moving to CPL while at the same time cutting all other expenses.
• Constant losing in both NASL and CPL.
• Finally, the owner pulling the plug and expecting other CPL owners to bail him out.

It hurts to read being from the Edmonton area.  I left in 2010 and being back a few times, even Alphonso Davies has trouble building hype outside niche communities. I have tried with Canadian national stuff on my limited social media with very little response.   We obviously had decent crowds in not amazing conditions for the qualifiers but how to translate that into club numbers would seemingly take a really good marketing job/situation change. 

 

(I would say that Edmonton sports fans of my generation are spoiled but they did keep going during years and years of awful Oilers teams.)

[Sal333]

3 hours ago, Aird25 said:

What was it Einstein said about insanity?

He said it orginated in Schrodinger's cat.

[Kingston]

11 minutes ago, Sal333 said:

He said it orginated in Schrodinger's cat.

Although Heisenberg wasn't certain about that.

[RS]

Holy fuck, this thread is exhausting.

[narduch]

37 minutes ago, Kingston said:

Not arguing with the thrust of your post, but did Americans count as internationals?  My recollection is that Canadians and Americans always both counted as domestics for TFC but that TFC was initially required to have at least 7 or 8 (?) Canadians and that was what Mo Johnson claimed was holding the team back.  

In 2007 TFC had to carry 3 Americans. But Canadians were still the only players that counted as domestics.

I had read a CBC article from last week dated 2006 that explained it but can't find it now.

Here is a forum post from back then.

I even defended TFC but I was sadly naive back then

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

A reminder that what was being responded to by pointing out that FC Edmonton recently folded was the notion that CanPL has been a phenomenal success. Having a team fold after regularly drawing three figures in paid attendance in Canada's fifth largest city points to an overall picture that is at best not as clear cut as that.

Discussing what is happening frankly and honestly has nothing whatsoever to do with wanting the league to fail overall but that won't stop certain individuals on here banging on about other people supposedly wanting the league to fold even though regularly pointing out that there are other less risky economic models available that could be adopted instead actually implies the exact opposite.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

...The absolute best thing would be if Toronto gets a CPL team and has the blizzard naming rights. His head will explode.

You expect to be able to engage me in conversation after posting something that childish?  How old are you? 15 or something like that?

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I wonder if there was an American fan in 1998 telling people how MLS is terrible and they should have put teams in the Mexican system? Telling people they’re only supporting MLS because they’re patriotic. 

Senor Parrot??

[Bison44]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Ozzie, who here backs the CPL in bitter opposition to MLS? Pretty sure you won’t find a single CPL fan who doesn’t also watch MLS. 

Why dont we flip this, if Bird droppings loves CPL so much, how many games has he been too??   

[Bigandy]

21 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

A reminder that what was being responded to by pointing out that FC Edmonton recently folded was the notion that CanPL has been a phenomenal success. Having a team fold after regularly drawing three figures in paid attendance in Canada's fifth largest city points to an overall picture that is at best not as clear cut as that.

Discussing what is happening frankly and honestly has nothing whatsoever to do with wanting the league to fail overall but that won't stop certain individuals on here banging on about other people supposedly wanting the league to fold even though regularly pointing out that there are other less risky economic models available that could be adopted instead actually implies the exact opposite.

I think its the tone of your insights that has everyone thinking you are anti-CPL. 

Edmonton FC folding does not mean that the CPL is not a success, like you claim. The insight that should be taken from edmonton folding is that the club was unlikely to succeed given their history in the USA based leagues. Edmonton was a low hanging fruit as it had all the infrastructure in place to join the CPL and it served a massive benefit to the league. However, its time to pivot. As with every business, a pivot does not mean the business is flawed, but rather there are better alternatives. 

Your insistence on taking events (that are not the correct criteria for judging the success of the CPL) and trying to force them as a justification for the CPL being bad, is the exact reason everyone thinks youre anti-CPL. 

[shermanator]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

It hurts to read being from the Edmonton area.  I left in 2010 and being back a few times, even Alphonso Davies has trouble building hype outside niche communities. I have tried with Canadian national stuff on my limited social media with very little response.   We obviously had decent crowds in not amazing conditions for the qualifiers but how to translate that into club numbers would seemingly take a really good marketing job/situation change. 

 

(I would say that Edmonton sports fans of my generation are spoiled but they did keep going during years and years of awful Oilers teams.)

One of the great myths in Canadian soccer is that Edmonton is a soccer city.

It’s not, or at least, it hasn’t been in the dozen years I’ve been hyper focused on Canadian soccer. Edmonton shows up for the big events like the Women’s World Cup or a qualifying run where the whole country has jumped on the bandwagon (and have since jumped off), but they have shown time and time again that the local professional game just doesn’t matter to them.

Take it from someone who’s been to Clarke for games during the CPL era, the product that was put out was professional in name only. It paralleled PDL / USL League 2 in the experience. Comparing that to what I’ve seen at Spruce Meadows and Starlight, it’s night and day. The Fath’s and FC Edmonton have done immeasurable damage to the professional game in that city. That's not on CPL. That's on them.

Maybe one day an ownership group who takes the game seriously will come in, put out a product that is attractive to both the hardcore and casual soccer fan, and can build some momentum. Maybe Edmonton will be a great League1 Alberta city and that will build something grassroots, but most people I know who stuck around until the bitter end have given up.

[gigi riva]

3 hours ago, shermanator said:

One of the great myths in Canadian soccer is that Edmonton is a soccer city.

It’s not, or at least, it hasn’t been in the dozen years I’ve been hyper focused on Canadian soccer. Edmonton shows up for the big events like the Women’s World Cup or a qualifying run where the whole country has jumped on the bandwagon (and have since jumped off), but they have shown time and time again that the local professional game just doesn’t matter to them.

Take it from someone who’s been to Clarke for games during the CPL era, the product that was put out was professional in name only. It paralleled PDL / USL League 2 in the experience. Comparing that to what I’ve seen at Spruce Meadows and Starlight, it’s night and day. The Fath’s and FC Edmonton have done immeasurable damage to the professional game in that city. That's not on CPL. That's on them.

Maybe one day an ownership group who takes the game seriously will come in, put out a product that is attractive to both the hardcore and casual soccer fan, and can build some momentum. Maybe Edmonton will be a great League1 Alberta city and that will build something grassroots, but most people I know who stuck around until the bitter end have given up.

Which leads me to this question . What is Canada's best Soccer city . Is it Toronto ? Vancouver  or Woodbridge  . I am wondering what people think

[RS]

Brampton