The Importance of the Players vs CSA Pay Dispute

[dyslexic nam]

And just for reference, there are signs that at least some of the owners are taking baby steps in this direction to broaden their talent pool and establish youth pipelines into the first teams.  
 

https://hfxwanderersfc.canpl.ca/article/wanderers-announce-roster-for-u23-reserves-team-camp-in-halifax

[Aird25]

8 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

And just for reference, there are signs that at least some of the owners are taking baby steps in this direction to broaden their talent pool and establish youth pipelines into the first teams.  
 

https://hfxwanderersfc.canpl.ca/article/wanderers-announce-roster-for-u23-reserves-team-camp-in-halifax

 

[Ottawafan]

12 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Let’s not forget that it took MLS 11 years to establish academies. Wanting academies this early is putting the cart before the horse. There’s no need right now - the goal is incremental growth for the clubs first team operations. Those clubs are doing just fine in identifying and bringing in their own talent for now. 

Hence the term eventually.  Never said this early.

They are bringing in talent, but they aren't developing their own.  Having more academies will enable more local players are training and developing together, at a higher level.  Like OTP said, too many clubs are focused on there own club level success and less on the growth of the game as a whole.  Pro academies will help grow the game and further take development out of the hands of the Associations.   But this is a discussion for another thread. 

[Aird25]

8 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Hence the term eventually.  Never said this early.

They are bringing in talent, but they aren't developing their own.  Having more academies will enable more local players are training and developing together, at a higher level.  Like OTP said, too many clubs are focused on there own club level success and less on the growth of the game as a whole.  Pro academies will help grow the game and further take development out of the hands of the Associations.   But this is a discussion for another thread. 

I’d suggest looking at what CPL clubs are actually doing to grow the game and spending less time listening to Ozzie

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/vancouver-island/2019/6/21/1_4477916.html 

Edited March 23, 2023 by Aird25

[CanadaFan123]

7 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Hence the term eventually.  Never said this early.

They are bringing in talent, but they aren't developing their own.  Having more academies will enable more local players are training and developing together, at a higher level.  Like OTP said, too many clubs are focused on there own club level success and less on the growth of the game as a whole.  Pro academies will help grow the game and further take development out of the hands of the Associations.   But this is a discussion for another thread. 

Not sure I agree there. Forge fan here and we most definitely develop our “own” talent with youngsters in the first team. IMO if you have youngsters in your first team (under 20 or on a first pro deal) they’re still your talent. 

Cavalry for instance definitely has claim to Loturi and Pepple being their own homegrown talent. 

[narduch]

Other than Justin Smith all the best performers at last summer's U20 qualifying were CPLers.

[Ivan]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Nothing the parrot speaks of would produce the above. We’d be watching MLS Next teams play League 1 level soccer to crowds of 200. This antiquated thinking is what kept us in the mud from the 90s to 2019. 
 

 

Antiquated is a good word to use here when describing the Easton report referenced by Ozzie over and over again.  When was it written, 10, 15 20 years ago?  And, as mentioned by @Bison44, we in fact have the type of league the Easton report advises in the expanding League 1 Canada.

FFS, doesn't Easton still work for the CPL?  I know he did when the league started. 

[Ottawafan]

5 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Not sure I agree there. Forge fan here and we most definitely develop our “own” talent with youngsters in the first team. IMO if you have youngsters in your first team (under 20 or on a first pro deal) they’re still your talent. 

Cavalry for instance definitely has claim to Loturi and Pepple being their own homegrown talent. 

Those are kids who have been given the opportunity at 18 to further develop their skills as a pro.  The weren't players at U12 or U14 going thru the Forge/Cavalry academies.  Eventually the league will need to get there.

[Ottawafan]

13 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

I’d suggest looking at what CPL clubs are actually doing to grow the game and spending less time listening to Ozzie

https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/vancouver-island/2019/6/21/1_4477916.html 

Nice.  PFC are running a bubble.

https://pacificfc.canpl.ca/article/pacific-fc-and-st-johns-academy-launch-youth-soccer-academy

I did find this tho.  Looks like they are getting something started this fall.  Jamar will be great in that role!

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

...The success of CPL has been phenomenal...

You guys will claim it is a success regardless of what actually happens because you see it as your patriotic duty to support it no matter what because it has Canadian in its name. If it had really been a phenomenal success, FC Edmonton would not have just folded, the CMNT and CWNT players would view the CSB deal as beneficial, and there would be no hearings in Ottawa right now.

[Aird25]

22 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Nice.  PFC are running a bubble.

https://pacificfc.canpl.ca/article/pacific-fc-and-st-johns-academy-launch-youth-soccer-academy

I did find this tho.  Looks like they are getting something started this fall.  Jamar will be great in that role!

 

Pacific players have been helping train youth teams since day one. I imagine this is the case for other teams as well

[Bigandy]

36 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Those are kids who have been given the opportunity at 18 to further develop their skills as a pro.  The weren't players at U12 or U14 going thru the Forge/Cavalry academies.  Eventually the league will need to get there.

This doesnt capture the whole story about CPL youth development.

Cavalry and Edmonton have/had developmental teams in AMSL in alberta. Loturi for example, played there when he was younger. Johnathon Wheeldon was the coach at one point and maybe still is.  This is as close to a viable academy as is possible right now. 

[CanadaFan123]

13 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

You guys will claim it is a success regardless of what actually happens because you see it as your patriotic duty to support it no matter what because it has Canadian in its name. If it had really been a phenomenal success, FC Edmonton would not have just folded, the CMNT and CWNT players would view the CSB deal as beneficial, and there would be no hearings in Ottawa right now.

I’ll ask just to watch you perform mental gymnastics: FC Edmonton would be a success if they remained in the US system?
 

Ironically, the club died because it was bland and antiquated, starting with its typical US boring brand “FC your city here”. 
 

You’re kind of proving everyone’s point here but go on. 

Edited March 23, 2023 by CanadaFan123

[narduch]

38 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Those are kids who have been given the opportunity at 18 to further develop their skills as a pro.  The weren't players at U12 or U14 going thru the Forge/Cavalry academies.  Eventually the league will need to get there.

The 3 Canadian MLS teams have been around much longer and have actual academies and have very little to show for it.

Maybe give the CPL teams a bit of a break on this one? They have only just started

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

The success of CPL has been phenomenal and is a vision even I couldn’t have imagined. The league is growing every year in talent and support and has already achieved continental success. We have 2 of 8 teams going to champions league next year at minimum and now even the Canadian MLS teams are getting a fairer shake in their qualification path. 

It is certainly important to take note of the accomplishments of the CPL.  I'm delighted to see it expanding and I'm looking forward to seeing how the CPL teams do in the CCL.  I'm also very happy to see how players are really starting to move among L1, the CPL, the Canadian MLS teams, and abroad.

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

What parrot needs to realize is that the failure of MLS to assist Canadian soccer is what gave CPL the oxygen to live. If MLS made Canadians domestic and the Canadian clubs properly nurtured their talent there would be no CPL. Instead we’ve had garbage shoved down our throats with the rare sprinkling of Canadian talent. 

I disagree with this, though.  Even if the three MLS teams developed Canadian talent phenomenally well we'd still need the CPL for a country this size.  And garbage with a rare sprinkling of Canadian talent?  Really?  Do you remember what we had before MLS arrived or see who plays in MLS today?  As you say, credit where credit is due.

[Ottawafan]

9 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Pacific players have been helping train youth teams since day one. I imagine this is the case for other teams as well

Good. I know Fury ran programs which weren’t as successful as the club and local clubs weren’t on the same page. They also ran some training sessions with clubs but again, the primary development was with the local clubs. It’s more of a way for the pro clubs to become familiar with local talent, sort of a scouting opportunity. Need to get to the point they are more hands on. 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

2 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I’ll ask just to watch you perform mental gymnastics: FC Edmonton would be a success if they remained in the US system? ...

Completely irrelevant to the question of whether CanPL has been a phenomenal success.

[Ottawafan]

3 minutes ago, narduch said:

The 3 Canadian MLS teams have been around much longer and have actual academies and have very little to show for it.

Maybe give the CPL teams a bit of a break on this one? They have only just started

Huh?  I’m not bagging on them. Stating it’s part of the evolution, a necessary step one day that will need to happen. 

[Bigandy]

12 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

You guys will claim it is a success regardless of what actually happens because you see it as your patriotic duty to support it no matter what because it has Canadian in its name. If it had really been a phenomenal success, FC Edmonton would not have just folded, the CMNT and CWNT players would view the CSB deal as beneficial, and there would be no hearings in Ottawa right now.

Don't be absurd.
-Does portsmouth basically folding make the premier league a failure? of course not. The league can be a success even if one team isn't.
-The hearings are about national team pay. The women and men fighting over WC prize money has nothing to do with the CPL. 
-How does the view of our national players on a marketing deal have any impact on if the CPL is a success or not. They are not financially saavy and even if they are, the CSB/CSA deal is not the sole criteria for if the CPL is a success. Sure, it helps tremendously with operating costs, but someone getting revenue from project A doesnt mean that project B is or is not viable.  
 

[Kingston]

2 minutes ago, narduch said:

The 3 Canadian MLS teams have been around much longer and have actual academies and have very little to show for it.

Maybe give the CPL teams a bit of a break on this one? They have only just started

The other thing about the CPL is their close links to L1O.  L1O is effectively acting as a sort of joint academy system for the entire CPL and I'm hoping that can be extended to the other L1 leagues.  I'm not sure having each CPL team start its own academy team right now would be the best use of resources compared to continuing to establish the main clubs.

[Bigandy]

3 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Completely irrelevant to the question of whether CanPL has been a phenomenal success.

As is the 2.5 criteria you have presented for the canPL being a failure.

[CanadaFan123]

Just now, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Completely irrelevant to the question of whether CanPL has been a phenomenal success.

Right, kind of like every point you mentioned in claiming it wasn’t.
 

It is a success. We had a CPL grad at the World Cup less than 4 years after the leagues inception. We have 2 more players in the current squad. We have more clubs in continental competitions. We have more players than ever before. We have more exports and money than ever before. 
 

So yes, a phenomenal success. 
 

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Just now, Ottawafan said:

Good. I know Fury ran programs which weren’t as successful as the club and local clubs weren’t on the same page. They also ran some training sessions with clubs but again, the primary development was with the local clubs. It’s more of a way for the pro clubs to become familiar with local talent, sort of a scouting opportunity. Need to get to the point they are more hands on. 

...but that would antagonize the local youth clubs and that could harm group sales. Don't hold your breath on merit based youth academys happening any time soon.

[dyslexic nam]

4 minutes ago, Ottawafan said:

Huh?  I’m not bagging on them. Stating it’s part of the evolution, a necessary step one day that will need to happen. 

You may not be bagging on them, but it seems like a pretty drastic change in tone from your previous unilateral declaration that you exclusively support the players position and see no merit in the claims being made by anyone else in this issue (ie. those running the CPL).  All folks are trying to do is convince you that CPL is doing a good job of advancing soccer interests in this country and that they warrant some consideration and respect within this complicated issue.   

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Just now, CanadaFan123 said:

...It is a success. We had a CPL grad at the World Cup less than 4 years after the leagues inception...

As stated previously, you are going to say it is a success no matter what because it's the league with Canadian in its name and you are CanadaFan123 doing what you no doubt view as your patriotic duty.