Aird25 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, RS said: It's a business. No more, no less. And there's nothing wrong with that in a macro sense. Honest question, has any professional soccer team ever made money in Canada? We've been told by folks on this site for years that CPL should have scaled back, and that the league is bound to fold given lack of support narduch and DoyleG 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bigandy said: Maybe I misunderstood but here is what I understood. - The CSB made 8.2 in revenue. - The CSB pays CSA about 3 mil - The CSB have about 5.2 million to spend on costs after the CSA payment. Theres no indication to say that amount is 4.2 million as no one has seen CSB books. -the 4.2 million is a figure that was brought up to show if the CSB deal was good or bad. CSA is implying that a 50/50 split would be a reasonable %. If they chose the % route, instead of the fixed price payment method, the CSA would nearly have the same amount of dollars coming in. Just to simplify, the 4.2 million is not the profits of CSB. Is this how others understood this? I believe that CSB pays between 3 to $4M. Some say they got closer to $4M for 2022 (which would makes sense in a World Cup year). He was using the percentage example to demonstrate that it wasn't that terrible of a deal even in 2022 since the payout would be "close to 50%" However, the more successful the NTs become - the more sponsors CSB gets and the worse the deal becomes overtime which is why they are going to make amendments. I doubt they'll agree to a % but add clauses increasing the payout based on different benchmarks being reached. Edited March 20, 2023 by Ansem johnyb and Shway 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Aird25 said: Honest question, has any professional soccer team ever made money in Canada? We've been told by folks on this site for years that CPL should have scaled back, and that the league is bound to fold given lack of support CF Montreal have never been profitable, that I know. I have my obvious doubts about Vancouver while TFC losing money wouldn't really matter (they haven't) since they have the Leafs and Raptors to make up for those losses. Same thing Valour/Blue Bombers are doing and now Forge with Tiger-Cats Edited March 20, 2023 by Ansem johnyb and DoyleG 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, Aird25 said: Honest question, has any professional soccer team ever made money in Canada? We've been told by folks on this site for years that CPL should have scaled back, and that the league is bound to fold given lack of support I'm not sure what your question has to do with the conversation. The CSB investors/owners are there of their own free will and obviously think they can eventually make money off professional soccer in Canada, otherwise why would they bother? Also not sure how to respond to your second point since I've never advocated for CPL scaling back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonovision Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 29 minutes ago, Ansem said: CF Montreal have never been profitable, that I know. I have my obvious doubts about Vancouver while TFC losing money wouldn't really matter (they haven't) since they have the Leafs and Raptors to make up for those losses. Same thing Valour/Blue Bombers are doing and now Forge with Tiger-Cats If Joey sold CF Montreal today, would his capital gain wipe out any annual operating losses he's incurred? Shway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigandy Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 34 minutes ago, Ansem said: I believe that CSB pays between 3 to $4M. Some say they got closer to $4M for 2022 (which would makes sense in a World Cup year). He was using the percentage example to demonstrate that it wasn't that terrible of a deal even in 2022 since the payout would be "close to 50%" However, the more successful the NTs become - the more sponsors CSB gets and the worse the deal becomes overtime which is why they are going to make amendments. I doubt they'll agree to a % to determine contracts but add clauses increasing the payout based on different benchmarks being reached. I'm glad you had the same take away as me. It seems that there was confusion that a 50% split meant that CSB profits were 4.2million, rather than an example that the CSB is not a terrible deal. DoyleG, johnyb and Ansem 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 48 minutes ago, Aird25 said: You have to think this whole situation is hurting the amount of sponsorship money available to the sport in Canada. The only deal signed since the men refused to play the friendly is Quesada. It's sad to think how much money in terms of sponsorships, ticket revenue etc. may have already been lost, and will continue to be lost, due to these disputes Carlsberg, Degree, Maple Lodge & likely their biggest deal with CIBC were all announced after the men not playing Panama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Just now, jonovision said: If Joey sold CF Montreal today, would his capital gain wipe out any annual operating losses he's incurred? Forbes values CF Montreal at around $375MUS https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/forbes-magazine-values-cf-montreal-at-only-375-million-2nd-last-in-mls-1.6257040 He claimed losing around $12M a year (10 years) Montreal paid $40M to join MLS Saputo paid $17M with the province paying $23M for expanding and improving the stadium (Total value $40M) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saputo_Stadium I'd say Joey Saputo would recoup his investment and most likely turn a profit in the sale in my opinion. johnyb and Shway 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Globe reported earlier Bontis didn't attend because he was in no state of mind. Over the past year, Bontis was the victim in a criminal-harassment case, which led to the Hamilton Police Service charging a person, and Bontis learned last Wednesday that the person had unexpectedly died. Cochrane said Bontis received 280 e-mails, pertaining to his role as a sport leader, from the person over 14 months. They contained a range of threats and demands, which left Bontis fearful. Cochrane said Bontis initially planned to testify. Likely paywalled: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/article-former-canada-soccer-president-nick-bontis-wont-appear-before/ toontownman, Kent, johnyb and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Diego Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, red card said: Globe reported earlier Bontis didn't attend because he was in no state of mind. Over the past year, Bontis was the victim in a criminal-harassment case, which led to the Hamilton Police Service charging a person, and Bontis learned last Wednesday that the person had unexpectedly died. Cochrane said Bontis received 280 e-mails, pertaining to his role as a sport leader, from the person over 14 months. They contained a range of threats and demands, which left Bontis fearful. Cochrane said Bontis initially planned to testify. Likely paywalled: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/article-former-canada-soccer-president-nick-bontis-wont-appear-before/ Which one you sickos narduch, Kadenge, RS and 6 others 6 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floortom Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, red card said: Over the past year, Bontis was the victim in a criminal-harassment case, which led to the Hamilton Police Service charging a person, and Bontis learned last Wednesday that the person had unexpectedly died. Cochrane said Bontis received 280 e-mails, pertaining to his role as a sport leader, from the person over 14 months. They contained a range of threats and demands, which left Bontis fearful. Cochrane said Bontis initially planned to testify. Likely paywalled: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/article-former-canada-soccer-president-nick-bontis-wont-appear-before/ I wonder what that person’s screen name was here narduch and jonovision 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 (edited) edit: missed the dying Part. My bad. Edited March 20, 2023 by dyslexic nam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 28 minutes ago, red card said: Carlsberg, Degree, Maple Lodge & likely their biggest deal with CIBC were all announced after the men not playing Panama. Does anyone honestly think that any of these deals happened 50% because CanPL was part of the package? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 30 minutes ago, Ansem said: Forbes values CF Montreal at around $375MUS https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/forbes-magazine-values-cf-montreal-at-only-375-million-2nd-last-in-mls-1.6257040 He claimed losing around $12M a year (10 years) Montreal paid $40M to join MLS Saputo paid $17M with the province paying $23M for expanding and improving the stadium (Total value $40M) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saputo_Stadium I'd say Joey Saputo would recoup his investment and most likely turn a profit in the sale in my opinion. I think this is a good outline about major league sports team finances: https://minnesotareformer.com/2021/07/15/the-billionaire-playbook-how-sports-owners-use-their-teams-to-avoid-millions-in-taxes/ Ansem, jonovision, phresh and 2 others 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzie_the_parrot Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 18 minutes ago, Floortom said: I wonder what that person’s screen name was here If anybody from the Hamilton area stops posting I guess we'll have a pretty good idea. Wonder what the CPSL West dude from back in the day is up to these days. If it was somebody from Calgary he'd be a prime suspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aird25 Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 48 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: Does anyone honestly think that any of these deals happened 50% because CanPL was part of the package? Absolutely. Some deals are reported as being exclusive to CanPL and I don't see why others couldn't be even. CPL has far more games/appearances to sell. red card and grigorio 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 48 minutes ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: Does anyone honestly think that any of these deals happened 50% because CanPL was part of the package? They could have opted for just the Canada Soccer package like Osmows or Quesada but all of these 4 opted for both Canada Soccer & CPL. So, at the minimum, CPL being included sweetened the deal as Canada Soccer & CPL together offer a good complementary package. Two forged even deeper relations with the CPL by being front-of-shirt sponsors and 1 also became a sleeve sponsor for all clubs. johnyb, The Real Marc, Bison44 and 3 others 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 So Westhead is also reporting that the CSB made just $2.8 million in sponsorships in 2022, rather than $8.2. How ironic that the only useful bit of info that came out of this farce of a hearing is a figure that nobody can seem to agree upon. Shway, zeelaw and johnyb 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 2 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: If anybody from the Hamilton area stops posting I guess we'll have a pretty good idea. Wonder what the CPSL West dude from back in the day is up to these days. If it was somebody from Calgary he'd be a prime suspect. Complete whack job that fellow from Calgary, if you are talking about way back on old forum; won't bother naming him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Observer Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 4 hours ago, red card said: Globe reported earlier Bontis didn't attend because he was in no state of mind. Over the past year, Bontis was the victim in a criminal-harassment case, which led to the Hamilton Police Service charging a person, and Bontis learned last Wednesday that the person had unexpectedly died. Cochrane said Bontis received 280 e-mails, pertaining to his role as a sport leader, from the person over 14 months. They contained a range of threats and demands, which left Bontis fearful. Cochrane said Bontis initially planned to testify. Likely paywalled: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/soccer/article-former-canada-soccer-president-nick-bontis-wont-appear-before/ Whatever you think of Bontis, that’s pretty horrible. No one deserves that kind of abuse. johnyb, Ivan, gator and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 4 hours ago, Floortom said: I wonder what that person’s screen name was here He seems to have posted after you. So he's alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoyleG Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Ed_S said: Complete whack job that fellow from Calgary, if you are talking about way back on old forum; won't bother naming him. I think he croaked a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watchmen Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 5 hours ago, Ansem said: I believe that CSB pays between 3 to $4M. Some say they got closer to $4M for 2022 (which would makes sense in a World Cup year). Well, no. They've all been pretty clear that it's a fixed rate with incremental increases each year. There hasn't been any mention of a bump in World Cup years, and I think we heard early on that it peaked at about $3.5m in it's final year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 5 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said: If anybody from the Hamilton area stops posting I guess we'll have a pretty good idea. Wonder what the CPSL West dude from back in the day is up to these days. If it was somebody from Calgary he'd be a prime suspect. It wasn't me!😐 narduch, zeelaw and Bison44 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted March 21, 2023 Share Posted March 21, 2023 15 minutes ago, gator said: It wasn't me!😐 I believe you, Shaggy 🙂 gator and Cheeta 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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