How Far Are We From A Soccer Nation?

[red card]

8 hours ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

This is a tough one and I'm not sure if I can explain it properly as there are so many variables and forces at play here. 

Not being on network (OTA) TV is tough.  I know there will be some out there who will say that nobody watches network TV anymore, and the younger generation streams everything, but they are not mindful of what changes ATSC 3.0 will bring to bear in the coming years, something which I don't know either, yet.

Around 75% of U.S. TV households are expected to be within range of receiving ATSC 3.0 by the end of this year.  With inflation the way it is now people are more mindful of where they are spending their dollars.  OTA TV has been making a comeback even before the evolution of ATSC 3.0 and still getting stronger with SVOD services possibly reaching their Zenith

I am always mindful of the time when the NHL signed with SportsChannel America over ESPN way back in the early days of ESPN.  It was more money but less exposure, a mistake from which they've never really recovered in the US.  I would say something similar about the CFL and TSN.  They received decent money from TSN (relative to their position in the marketplace) but lessened exposure from not being on network OTA TV.  And if anyone doubts the power that network TV still has, look at the numbers any old piece of American bad programming can get on CTV

Is this a good deal for soccer fans, likely, but it is preaching to the choir, will it be the best to grow the game, I have some reservations

 

 

CFL deal with TSN has been a good deal for both parties. CBC couldn't afford to pay $50 million per year. CTV was never going to show CFL in prime time since it would eat away at their simsub revenues. They could have shown Saturday or Sunday afternoon games as they have done with MLS but haven't - likely not yet time to cannibalize one of TSN's flagship properties.

Scripted American network tv prime time programming days are over. Top 10 linear tv shows in Canada are largely Canadian news & sports & American reality shows. Plus, it's a irregular occurrence of any type of American simsubbed show getting over 2 million. The top scripted American shows get >50% less audience than the top shows did in the 90s and the majority demo watching is now over 55 in both Canada & the US. Nearly all the buzz about scripted programming is now about shows on streamers.

Whether the streaming model moves from 100% subscription to more ad supported, linear tv isn't making a comeback since streaming allows you to watch whatever you want from all over the world in the cadence you want. The competition for streaming today is actually coming from gaming & short-form video such as tik tok. Netflix CEO has said in years past that his main competition is gaming and sleeping. 

For MLS, linear tv hasn't really worked in terms of both ratings and money. For Americans, aside from their local team, the majority of matches were already only available on ESPN+ stream. And having matches on tv created headaches for those who only watched via ESPN+ due to local blackouts. So, now MLS will get more money and make their core audience happy in terms of access. Then, even if MLS share of the pie remains unchanged, they can assume others will make the overall American soccer pie bigger over the next decade.

Edited June 23, 2022 by red card

[RS]

30 minutes ago, red card said:

 

 

CFL deal with TSN has been a good deal for both parties. CBC couldn't afford to pay $50 million per year. CTV was never going to show CFL in prime time since it would eat away at their simsub revenues. They could have shown Saturday or Sunday afternoon games as they have done with MLS but haven't - likely not yet time to cannibalize one of TSN's flagship properties.

Scripted American network tv prime time programming days are over. Top 10 linear tv shows in Canada are largely Canadian news & sports & American reality shows. Plus, it's a irregular occurrence of any type of American simsubbed show getting over 2 million. The top scripted American shows get >50% less audience than the top shows did in the 90s and the majority demo watching is now over 55 in both Canada & the US. Nearly all the buzz about scripted programming is now about shows on streamers.

Whether the streaming model moves from 100% subscription to more ad supported, linear tv isn't making a comeback since streaming allows you to watch whatever you want from all over the world in the cadence you want. The competition for streaming today is actually coming from gaming & short-form video such as tik tok. Netflix CEO has said in years past that his main competition is gaming and sleeping. 

For MLS, linear tv hasn't really worked in terms of both ratings and money. For Americans, aside from their local team, the majority of matches were already only available on ESPN+ stream. And having matches on tv created headaches for those who only watched via ESPN+ due to local blackouts. So, now MLS will get more money and make their core audience happy in terms of access. Then, even if MLS share of the pie remains unchanged, they can assume others will make the overall American soccer pie bigger over the next decade.

Good summary.

[lamptern]

Update one year after.

Main stream TV (CBC, TSN and  SN) for 2023 Champions League Final game live broadcast: 0

[jhoops__]

Pretty much….I’m not sure if it’s getting much better but the World Cup being should help.   However,  younger people love football and basketball along with hockey so much more than soccer.   

[Kent]

6 hours ago, lamptern said:

Update one year after.

Main stream TV (CBC, TSN and  SN) for 2023 Champions League Final game live broadcast: 0

But it was available on CBS. Not a Canadian station, but readily available in Canada. I missed the first 15 minutes because I assumed I didn't have access to the game, but found it on CBS.

[red card]

7 hours ago, lamptern said:

Update one year after.

Main stream TV (CBC, TSN and  SN) for 2023 Champions League Final game live broadcast: 0

CBC was never a player in club football other than showing some TFC matches in their early years. CBC shouldn't be expected to carry Champions League given no Canadian teams.

TSN being outbid by DAZN for Champions League increased the market value - good for the business of football in Canada. TSN couldn’t extract full value from Champions League since they sub-licensed many matches to beIN. Being shifted over to a streaming platform was more a function of others investing first and more in streaming than Bell/Rogers, more suitable business model given fragmented/non prime time viewership and streaming entrants not being subject to foreign ownership restriction rules.

DAZN believed Canada was already or at least becoming a football nation. Canada wanted to watch and was willing to pay for it (with many cord cutting). DAZN’s market penetration also showed the way for other foreign-owned football focused media firms to Canada like fubo, Mediapro, Fanatiz, OneFootball, atafootball etc..

Now, Canadians can watch at least one football match nearly everyday over 70 leagues/tourneys on linear tv/streaming. It becomes everyday across countless competitions when you add in all the free live streams on FIFA+ & Youtube.

[jhoops__]

Canadians buy DAZN for nfl and even boxing not soccer…

[CanadaFan123]

8 minutes ago, jhoops__ said:

Canadians buy DAZN for nfl and even boxing not soccer…

Well obviously.. the only thing worth watching for a casual fan is UEFA competitions. 
 

On another note of Canada becoming a soccer nation. Surreal to commute to a local match and run into other fans who are headed to a different local pro match. 

[Borjans Sweatpants]

1 hour ago, jhoops__ said:

Canadians buy DAZN for nfl and even boxing not soccer…

I bought Dazn for NFL and soccer, but it recently lost EPL to Fubo, so now you need to have the two subscriptions if you want to watch EPL and Champions League. Starts to add up quick which sucks, or you find streams for them 

[SoccMan]

17 hours ago, jhoops__ said:

Pretty much….I’m not sure if it’s getting much better but the World Cup being should help.   However,  younger people love football and basketball along with hockey so much more than soccer.   

So much more ? Go to a school and the amount of soccer jerseys you see is pretty impressive .

[SpursFlu]

What's a soccer nation anyways? 

I thinkthe real problem being raised is that the media in Canada is a joke. It's a borderline monopoly and because of that dynamic they're accustomed to dictating the cultural framework. 

I watched the game on DAZN. Terribly boring broadcast but I watched. DAZN is a bit Euro centric so i find they're footi coverage is lacking. TSN and Sportsnet have no financial interests so tennis and Blue Jays it is from those guys

What we need in this country is a return to regional sports coverage 

Edited June 11, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Watchmen]

6 hours ago, jhoops__ said:

Canadians buy DAZN for nfl and even boxing not soccer…

Well then that's on Canadia soccer fans, not TSN for being out bid.

[Bison44]

2 hours ago, SoccMan said:

So much more ? Go to a school and the amount of soccer jerseys you see is pretty impressive .

My 8 year old has older kids commenting on his TFC jersey.  Plus we were doing a pregame passing drill and the kids were talking about messi vs ronaldo and I said Davies was my fav and a lot of them knew who he was.  Its a slow glacial shift in interest.  You win 20 somethings with the party vibe, families with the afternoon of clean entertainment, and the kids that actually are playing today should be increasingly receptive to soccer later on in life. We have a partial pyramid across most of the country (L1Canada, CPL, MLS), more and more pro players, coaches, refs etc, expanding the grass roots...progress is being made.   

[TGAA_Star]

🇨🇦 Now are we a soccer nation? No but we can be especially if we keep qualifying for tournaments at every level for the men

[Aird25]

9 hours ago, jhoops__ said:

Canadians buy DAZN for nfl and even boxing not soccer…

I watch a lot of soccer on DAZN and I have quite a friends that do as well.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Right now Canada is a golf nation

 

[gigi riva]

We have ways to go in order to become a Footy nation , I do see a lot of younger people wearing Soccer shirts more so than 10 years ago , I wonder if the popularity of the fifa video games has a influence . 

[SpursFlu]

I'm curious if people consider the US a football nation?

[Macksam]

On 6/10/2023 at 7:53 PM, jhoops__ said:

Pretty much….I’m not sure if it’s getting much better but the World Cup being should help.   However,  younger people love football and basketball along with hockey so much more than soccer.   

Based on what? 

[jhoops__]

Just an opinion of a teacher who has teenage kids living in a city…purely anecdotal no doubt but imo soccer is not close to to NFL, NBA and the NHL…I feel we have a long way to go before we’re considered a soccer nation.

[QBCS]

9 hours ago, gigi riva said:

We have ways to go in order to become a Footy nation , I do see a lot of younger people wearing Soccer shirts more so than 10 years ago , I wonder if the popularity of the fifa video games has a influence . 

FIFA isn't very popular outside of kids who play soccer or athletic kids, the growth shouldn't be attributed to that. 

In my school I'd say soccer is the 2nd biggest sport, hockey an obvious 1 and all others kinda lag behind. On any day its common to see at least 5 soccer jersey's. Dortmund, Chelsea, United, City, Bayern, Barca, Madrid, etc. If you look around you'll see it. I'd say the sport has grown exponentially in the last 5 years due to the national team, in terms of younger aged people being invested in it. Any kid knows Alphonso Davies, The average kid who enjoys sports can hold there own in a conversation about the national team and world football.

 

The apple TV deal is something I can't get my head around, must've been heaps of money for them to take it. I don't see how the game will grow in Canada if the games are locked on a streaming service for the next 10 years. Can someone explain the thought process?

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, jhoops__ said:

Just an opinion of a teacher who has teenage kids living in a city…purely anecdotal no doubt but imo soccer is not close to to NFL, NBA and the NHL…I feel we have a long way to go before we’re considered a soccer nation.

Which city though? Maybe important to bear in mind that Canada isn't culturally homogeneous on this. The extent to which soccer is part of the culture locally in Woodbridge is not necessarily a reflection of what is the case in Moose Jaw. Somewhere like London, Ont even where you are in a city can potentially make a big difference on this. Soccer has traditionally tended to be a bigger factor "east of Adelaide" because that's the poorer part of the city where there are more recent immigrants.

[Kadenge]

8 minutes ago, QBCS said:

 

 

The apple TV deal is something I can't get my head around, must've been heaps of money for them to take it. I don't see how the game will grow in Canada if the games are locked on a streaming service for the next 10 years. Can someone explain the thought process?

I totally agree with you on this. The fact that young Canadians cant watch pro soccer on regular TV channels is a real drawback...unless they have a family member that is already a soccer fan and  pays for streaming services. It's great that One Soccer came on board for the CPL but at some point hopefully one of TSN/SN start picking up at least some CPL games.  

[SpursFlu]

For various reasons I think we need to consider where we are in this huge vast country. Even here in the lower mainland depending if you're in just say Burnaby or in Cloverdale it's going to be a bit different as far as people's interest. I think the difference now compared to 20 30 years ago. Kids, people whatever even if soccer isn't their number 1 sport they have some interest, they have basic understanding of the sport. They have an awareness. Where is before you had a minority of people in to soccer and then a vast majority of people who knew nothing and completely dismissed it. Soccer in Canada and the US will never be like it is in England, Italy or Brazil because we have so many other great sports embedded in our culture and communities.. but thats fine. I think there is still room to grow but I'm feeling pretty good about the sports place in this country. But I've always been a person who's comfortable being in a room with people who think differently than me. I prefer to be a bit different anyways, I don't need everyone to be on the same page as me. Just look at the facts

Qualified for World(and easy).. check

Growing Domestic league and 3 teams in MLS.. check

Canadian Global superstar winning Champions league.. check

Get in a time machine a tell yourself this from 20 years ago

Edited June 12, 2023 by SpursFlu

[Cheeta]

On 6/11/2023 at 7:32 AM, jhoops__ said:

Canadians buy DAZN for nfl and even boxing not soccer…

Maybe I'm a minority of one but I buy it just for Champions League.  One on my many harmless, well, mostly harmless vices.

Everything else on there is a bonus as far as I'm concerned (boxing, snooker).