WCQ: Jamaica vs Canada - Sunday, Oct 10, 6pm Eastern / 3pm Pacific - Kingston, Jamaica

[Approve My Account Pls]

My takeaways from today:

- Jamaica showed a blue print on how to slow us down: foul the shit out of us and don't let us get momentum. I will say that I think having Cav or Larin or even possibly Tesho in this match might have been what we needed to combat the physicality up front.

- Piette showed us why he doesn't get more time. Don't get me wrong, Piette is decent defensively, but that's all he offers. The second we made our midfield subs we could actually play through the middle of the park again. 

- Wotherspoon showed he should play more, I think he should slide above both Piette and Fraser on the depth chart and maybe should have started in Piette's (or even Kaye's) place today

- Henry and Cornelius showed they can do the job when needed, especially against physical opposition.

 

Reminder, we are in CONCACAF, shit was never going to go to plan and this will be a dogfight until the final window. Buckle up boys, nine more stressful matches to go

[One American]

Jamaica really needed the point. And they actually have only one truly bad result up to now. They've had a tough schedule with an easy one down the stretch. They're not out of it. Not the worst result. But need the win against Panama. But you're better than Panama. 

[narduch]

54 minutes ago, MauditYvon said:

 

This board needs some Three Little Birds after tonight 

[BearcatSA]

The inexperience of Shaffelburg and Brym was evident late.  Shaffelburg got possession then goes on the gallop dribble on a dodgy pitch but his really poor touch led to a midfield turnover.  Brym took an off balance wild cross that sailed out for a goal kick instead of playing some keep ball with Johnson near the corner flag.  Johnson's gestures afterward said it all.  I think the coaching staff will have a few quiet words to say in the match debrief to these youngsters.

Edited October 11, 2021 by BearcatSA

[Hawkguy]

1 hour ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

With the suspensions, trash surface and injuries, today could have gone a lot worse.

The problem is we now need a win vs Panama, and they are turning out to be the darkhorse of qualifying so far.

I'm starting to think Buchanan is irreplaceable at this point, much like Davies. When those two play the wings, it seems like the opposition gets overwhelmed. We missed that today, even though Davies was a bright spot for sure. 

Unfortunately, David has been practically invisible for us. Not sure what's going on with him, but I agree with others that we should add a forward. Also, no disrespect, but I'm not sure why Brym is part of the squad and is actually getting minutes. Very odd choice. 

On a positive note, I actually thought Henry had a good match - particularly that bicycle clearance to avoid a mixup with Crepeau. 

Speaking of which, Crepeau saved us big time at the death. 

Cornelius was good as well. Glad Miller got to have a break from action without issue. Johnston was OK. Millar could have done better with his chance. 

I really don't understand why ZBG hasn't gotten a look. With Laryea out, today would have been a perfect time to bring him in.

Lastly, did anyone notice the incorrect starting lineup and sub info displayed during the OneSoccer broadcast? I'm pretty sure Kennedy was listed as starting (which I considered a pleasant surprise) and then, during one of the subs, Buchanan was listed as entering the game.

Kennedy was listed as a starter. It was a good 20 minutes before I realized they made a gaff. Probably because it was such a slow paced game. My friend and I were pleasantly surprised he was fit when the graphic came up. 

[toontownman]

It's a good solid point away. Just so frustrating it could have been 3 spectacular wins away and 6 more points. However we aren't quite there yet. We are close and inching closer. 

The gloss is off of course with how well Panama is doing. We are in a very good place and Wednesday will be MASSIVE. It was never going to be easy, it's likely to be qualifying that comes down to the wire but we are in it.

[toontownman]

2 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

Kennedy was listed as a starter. It was a good 20 minutes before I realized they made a gaff. Probably because it was such a slow paced game. My friend and I were pleasantly surprised he was fit when the graphic came up. 

It's OK Tajon came on for Millar in the second half too.

[Wayverider]

First the positives: We are undefeated in three away matches (and two of them were against the top dogs). The US and Panama are both only one point ahead of us and they have both played 3 home games whereas we’ve only played two. WE ARE IN A GOOD POSITION!

Having said the above that was a very frustrating game to view. Yeah the field was shit but it was the same for both teams and I feel the announcers made too much of it as a convenient excuse for all of our troubles. 

Johnson aside there were too many lapses by defenders and their distribution from back to front didn’t come close to measuring up to their previous qualifying performances. Sure we didn’t get scored on, but link-up play offensively from our defensive third to the next phase of play was lacking. Laryea, Vitoria, Miller & Kennedy we’re sorely missed IMHO. The inclusion of 1 or 2 of them would have made a difference. 

Was it me, the field, or did it seem there were a higher volume of ‘mind fart’ plays? Obviously Millar’s miss was the most glaring. My God the side foot should give him more accuracy and yet he put it to the only part of the net a keeper occupied, and from mere feet away. Failing that a little controlled side foot pass to Osario who was also a mere feet away on a square pass would have resulted in an easier shot because the ball wouldn’t have been coming in at pace. Yet I don’t want to be too hard on Millar - I’m sure he feels worse than anyone for the miss.

i suppose there is a case to be made that you can’t have it both ways because Davies did barely miss a goal from a free kick, but overall I feel like he’s failed the set piece audition (and certainly not only in this game). And I get it, that’s a tricky situation because we HAVE to have what he adds to the team - but with so many weak opportunities on set prices tonight I feel that aspect of Davies game is Canada continually forcing a round peg into a square hole. Lol - Whose going to tell him? 

For me, I learned from this game that we are very dependent on fielding either Eustaquio or Hutch in the starting 11. There is poise, creativity, superior distribution and high soccer IQ in their games. That’s concerning because realistically how many years can we get from Atiba. I definitely understand there is a needed skill set Piette gives us (ball winner, defensive intelligence, work rate) but he didn’t compensate tonight for what we were missing in the midfield. The announcers made a huge deal that he was arguably the man of the match, whereas I think he was the wrong skill set for what we needed this game.

Just my take aways from this game. I hope it doesn’t come across as too negative because I love this team and it’s a pleasure supporting them. If we are not totally happy after this past Jamaica game - that’s ok.  I imagine at this stage of qualifying play we could also be indifferent, AND that would be soooo much worse! 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Wayverider

[BearcatSA]

43 minutes ago, Approve My Account Pls said:

- Henry and Cornelius showed they can do the job when needed, especially against physical opposition.

KJ's point in the post game with Andi and Platt was a good one in that this was a good match up for them:  the play was mostly in front of them but you didn't see the clever off-the-shoulder runs like you'd get from a guy like the Peruvian Rudiaz and others.  However, Jamaica were quite threatening off those pieces and that might give them more confidence in thevreturn fixture.

[Bison44]

Its nice to get a road tie, but the win was there, or it could have been there for the taking.  The tie against mexico felt great, but now after the two games the realization is starting to creep in, we might come away with 2 points in this window.  And at best we get 5.  This is exactly what some were worried about.  We let Jamaica off the hook due to squad rotation, yellow cards etc..we dont give them the coup de gras that we could have.  I would have rather taken a loss at mexico to get the win in jamaica.  Not that you can plan for that, HAHA.   So now we go back to BMO with guys who probably should rest (Davies, Johnston, David) and a Panama team that is going to be tricky.  

Getting Lareya, Buchanon, hopefully Hoilett back in the lineup should help but if we fuck that game up in are in some trouble.  

[PegCityCam]

42 minutes ago, Wayverider said:

For me, I learned from this game that we are very dependent on fielding either Eustaquio or Hutch in the starting 11. There is poise, creativity, superior distribution and high soccer IQ in their games. That’s concerning because realistically how many years can we get from Atiba.

One name: Priso...Ralph Priso.

[Cblake]

14 minutes ago, PegCityCam said:

One name: Priso...Ralph Priso.

Hopefully Ralph gets a look after he recovers from his season ending injury. He certainly was showing his upside, making strides prior to going down. 

[Miche]

8 hours ago, Razcal said:

I mean, we are the only away team that got a point during Sundays games, that has to amount to something.

For all the initial talk of "must win your home games", we've not let a single opponent win theirs.

[Hawkguy]

6 hours ago, toontownman said:

It's OK Tajon came on for Millar in the second half too.

Yeah, I can't recall either but I think they had him listed a sub at the start though he was suspended. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

I'll just say this and move on to Panama: I think with Junior, or Tajon, we would have won this match. With Junior and Eustaquio starting, also. A fit Cavallini to cover for David for 20 minutes and get onto crosses--also could have been enough. We let them dictate the tone the first half, and the second we came out and played right. But we can't ignore the details in players quality that we were missing.

Vs Panama, I don't follow them closely, but I know some players very well, like Bárcenas. He is very mobile behind the strikers, is tricky and intelligent, and we need to cover ourselves especially in front of the back line. You have to dampen the sparks of talent they have. Lesson from US game: they can defend, and are organised defensively. So patience. We may not break them down as quickly as we did El Salvador.

One wish: once more, John Herdman, get the team ahead of the rival and on its back foot. We have had slow starts or been scored on first in all matches except El Salvador. Not good enough.

[Hawkguy]

49 minutes ago, Miche said:

For all the initial talk of "must win your home games", we've not let a single opponent win theirs.

This is true. But Jamaica was severely depleted. I think that's where some of the frustration comes in. The only player who may have started for us that was missing was a winger (Hoilett or Tajon). Laryea would have probably sat anyway. Vitoria definitely would have sat for Henry. Where-as Jamaica were missing probably 5 of their 6 best players. They were missing two Premier League players, a Championship player or two, and an MLS player. Them not having their Premier League guys would be like us missing Davies & David. 

It's still not a bad result. We got a point. But we also dropped home points to Honduras. And our opponents have now beaten USA on their own home soil which is going to be hard for us to do. And it's probably just frustrating for most fans that we severely outplayed Mexico and then were the worst team against Jamaica. Panama went into Jamaica against their much better side and won 3-0. 

Then again, I predicted the standings as they currently are (with the exception of El Salvador and Jamaica switched).... so Wednesday's game is a whole lot more important now. We need the 3 points from Panama, especially since Panama has a much easier next block. They play El Salvador at home & Honduras away. We have Costa Rica away and Mexico at home.

[Hawkguy]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

One wish: once more, John Herdman, get the team ahead of the rival and on its back foot. We have had slow starts or been scored on first in all matches except El Salvador. Not good enough.

That for me was the biggest problem yesterday. The slow start... except which made it more of a problem yesterday is that it never disappeared. We stayed in that slow start for nearly the full 90. We had no plan other than "pass to Davies and hope he makes a run." We slowed the game right down and kept it slowed down, even after getting them in early foul trouble. They had far more dangerous scoring chances than we did, IMO. 

Our first touches last night were atrocious in the back midfield and defense. It took them forever to control the ball and than Jamaican players would be on top of them. It could definitely be pitch related, but I could probably count on one hand the number of clean pass receptions. 

[Joe MacCarthy]

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

I like how @Hawkguyafter insulting Millar's father, who has the courtesy and elegance to come on here and share with maturity and a level head about his kid, is desperately trying to post anything and everything to get back on track. Liking like mad, in full hysterical mode. Put him on ignore folks.

I find it pathetic. Guys, my recommendation is to just ignore the shits, whowever they are, and don't give them the time of day. Including if I am being a shit. Then, you can see if they have anything worth saying in a week or three and put them back on. But really, to reward that behviour.

That is the first time I have seen such a slum behaviour on this board towards this particular player's father and to think it could mean losing that positive contribution pisses me off (could say the same for Kennedy, or for Dias's relative, etc). 

[Hawkguy]

28 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I

Actually I'm not going to respond to this. His father and I apologized to each other and ended the conversation last night on good terms.

I hope you have a wonderful day, Trialist.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Hawkguy

[Hawkguy]

7 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

The inexperience of Shaffelburg and Brym was evident late.  Shaffelburg got possession then goes on the gallop dribble on a dodgy pitch but his really poor touch led to a midfield turnover.  Brym took an off balance wild cross that sailed out for a goal kick instead of playing some keep ball with Johnson near the corner flag.  Johnson's gestures afterward said it all.  I think the coaching staff will have a few quiet words to say in the match debrief to these youngsters.

To be fair to Byrm, didn't Johnston do the same thing a few moments prior with a cross? That pitch must have been frustrating for them.

I do love Johnston as a player though. He's such a warrior.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Hawkguy

[Floortom]

39 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

To be fair to Byrm, didn't Johnston do the same thing a few moments prior with a cross? That pitch must have been frustrating for them.

I do love Johnston as a player though. He's such a warrior.

It was wotherspoon not Johnston who was pissed at Brym.

and yes Johnston had a terrible cross too right before that

Edited October 11, 2021 by Floortom

[rydermike]

8 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

The inexperience of Shaffelburg and Brym was evident late.  Shaffelburg got possession then goes on the gallop dribble on a dodgy pitch but his really poor touch led to a midfield turnover.  Brym took an off balance wild cross that sailed out for a goal kick instead of playing some keep ball with Johnson near the corner flag.  Johnson's gestures afterward said it all.  I think the coaching staff will have a few quiet words to say in the match debrief to these youngsters.

To be fair to them, they were 89tg minute subs. Coming on and basically being told you have 2 minutes to get us a goal, the pressure trying to be perfect, the not being game speed from sitting for two hours, all of it contributes. If they had another 10 minutes, perhaps they would've been calmer, more into the game etc, but we'll never know. 

Tons of other players on our team had those terrible end result plays today, the difference is they had more minutes to make some good plays. Bryn and Shaff basically only had one chance. What if Davies came on in the 89 and his only play was the one where the easy ball rolled under his foot and out for a throw, if Henry's only play was that ball he sailed 20 metres over, if Johnston's only play was his terrible cross, etc. Can't really fault a 2 minute player for a loss based on having one touch of the ball. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by rydermike

[Unnamed Trialist]

9 hours ago, rydermike said:

To be fair to them, they were 89tg minute subs. Coming on and basically being told you have 2 minutes to get us a goal, the pressure trying to be perfect, the not being game speed from sitting for two hours, all of it contributes. If they had another 10 minutes, perhaps they would've been calmer, more into the game etc, but we'll never know. 

Tons of other players on our team had those terrible end result plays today, the difference is they had more minutes to make some good plays. Bryn and Shaff basically only had one chance. What if Davies came on in the 89 and his only play was the one where the easy ball rolled under his foot and out for a throw, if Henry's only play was that ball he sailed 20 metres over, if Johnston's only play was his terrible cross, etc. Can't really fault a 2 minute player for a loss based on having one touch of the ball. 

I personally don't fault Brym for that play today, or Shaff. You are right they had few minutes, they were actually helping us to stay calm and not lose the point. At least Shaffelburg has MLS minutes this year. Brym, that is a throwaway.

Thing is: any of Ennin or Tesho could have given us 15 minutes and actually helped. Taking out Millar for Wotherspoon was not an equivalence. And imagine: Ennin played a season in Tomsk, which is near the geographical centrepoint of Asia, not far from Mongolia. Does anyone here think he would have been phased by the pitch quality or the chippiness? It's like Millar, another who showed no effects from the pitch, after years in northern England and Scotland.

[Stryker911]

It is worth noting that the main reason everyone is worked up about this result is due to Panama winning their game. If, Panama had lost or tied then a draw in Jamaica doesn't look so bad. We have played 6 WCQ in Jamaica and this is the first time getting anything out of it.

Also for those worried about Jamaica climbing back into the picture, they play their next 2 games on the road and then their following 2 games are at home to US and Mexico, so they still have a very uphill battle.

With that being said Wednesday is very much a must win game.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Stryker911