GC: Canada vs Mexico - Thursday, July 29th, 10pm Eastern / 7pm Pacific - Houston TX

[Unnamed Trialist]

19 hours ago, Free kick said:

Thats the key part right there.   We have seen in the past that performances in the Gold Cup are not necessarily a true indicator of what happens in WCQ.  We dont really know if some of these sides were holding back or not.    
 

The one that still stands out for me is CRC.   I believed, going in, that we had closed the gap on them and maybe surpassed them.   But at the same time i still cant believe that they could possibly be as poor as they were in that GC game against Canada.   They didnt have Keylor Navas at the GC and he was huge in the last WCQ hex in the important match versus the US in New Jersey.  

Honduras was ravaged by Covid and had all its young talent at the Olympics. Mexico is into semi finals in Tokyo. The US sent mostly a B team. Costa Rica will be far readier for us next time. ES were not a pushover, nor Jamaica. We were missing 4-6 starters I'd say for the key matches.

The fact is we did the minimum that could be expected of us. 

If we get close in WC qualifying, or qualify, the reasons won't necessarily have much to do with this tournament. If I'm wrong, it'll be one or two possible exceptions, which may be important won't deny it. But most of our success or failure over the next 14 days will be part of an entirely different book with its own cover. 

[dyslexic nam]

44 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If anyone wants to explain how the Gold Cup was useful for our WC qualifying campaign I'd be happy to be a foil. 

I don't deny I learnt a few things. I've already mentioned a few. I also had fun watching, but I enjoyed watching Kennedy playing in Austrian 2nd tier, I'm pretty easy to please. 

But it'll be fascinating to hear your arguments.

Honestly, I think most have moved on from that particular debate.  

[trc2014]

In retrospect, any idea on the thinking bringing Fraser on instead of Piette? 

[apbsmith]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If anyone wants to explain how the Gold Cup was useful for our WC qualifying campaign I'd be happy to be a foil. 

I don't deny I learnt a few things. I've already mentioned a few. I also had fun watching, but I enjoyed watching Kennedy playing in Austrian 2nd tier, I'm pretty easy to please. 

But it'll be fascinating to hear your arguments.

I'll take a non confrontational stab on a few points that I think helps our WCQ from participating in this Gold Cup.

1) The way we competed and were competitive in every match against all opposition, proved we were adequately prepared. Not that the players did not trust Herdman or his staff, but this tournament will only re-enforce that the players will trust the staff with preparation, tactics and in game adjustments for WCQ matches. 

2) Many of our 23 spent a significant chunk of time together as a team in training. I'm a big believer in more time together the more you develop chemistry and unity, even if it is just from training. This GC they experienced both training together and playing games together.

3) When you take away our big guns, many of our 23 men for WCQ will have gained valuable international and big game experience. Yes I consider QF & a SF(in front of 50k+ opposition supporters) in a knockout tournament a "big game experience". This simply can't be taught, you have to live threw it and experience it. Many men learnt and experienced it. They can carry this experience forward the rest of their lives.

4) The chemistry or as our players are calling it "brotherhood" has only grown from this tournament. Look at some of the top countries in the World: Spain, France, Holland. You can have all the talent in the world but if the chemistry or unity is not 100% there, you will have difficulties.  I guarantee our top players watching afar are only more fired up to crush it for our flag come September, simply after watching their teammates give it everything for the flag this GC.

5) We've learnt Crepeau is very capable in a CMNT uniform. Club vs country competition vs how you show in training are all different beasts.  Crepeau has proven this tourny he is the clear #2, pushing for #1. Do we learn this without the GC? Or have the same level of confidence? I'm not sure, but the question has now been answered. 

I'm sure I am missing more and I will agree with you, this GC is by no means a game changer for WCQ. 

At the same time, both of us are essentially and somewhat debating alot of hypotheticals. The true answer will likely always remain opinion based anyways, so tbh there really is no right or wrong answer. It's more where your opinion lies.

For me, I felt the tournament a positive for the CMNT, which only carries forward and helps us in WCQ, which is only a month away and will happen very very quickly.

[trc2014]

6 minutes ago, apbsmith said:

Many of our 23 spent a significant chunk of time together as a team in training. I'm a big believer in more time together the more you develop chemistry and unity, even if it is just from training. This GC they experienced both training together and playing games together

This - how can anyone argue that there are not huge benefits to this?

Edited July 31, 2021 by trc2014

[Bison44]

1 minute ago, trc2014 said:

This - how can anyone argue that there are not huge benefits to this?

They'll find a way.  

[MtlMario]

I've been following MNT since the early 80's and I don't think I ever saw the true disappointment and real brotherhood that this team had after this game. They actually expected to win this game and it showed after the final whistle. Previously it would of been "Oh well we tried our best and at least we didn't get embarrassed" and never really expected to win. This will bode well for us in the future.

[mrstepp817]

22 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I listened to Herc Gomez on the ESPN website talking about the chant delay and I was left wondering how many of the Mexican supporters in the Arlington stadium were American citizens (or what not: landed or undocumented immigrants, former anchor babies)?  I didn't think the border wasn't officially open until later in August because of the Covid surge down in the southern American states so that crowd would be all-American (in some form or another), wouldn't it?

 

Not breaking any news here but a massive part of Mexico's fan base is 2nd and 3rd generation folks living in the US and being in Texas thats one of the real strongholds of El Tri's fan base...I'd imagine 99% of the Mexico fans there were US citizens or folks living in the US

[The Ref]

After the loss to Mexico are we now out of the Gold Cup?  When do we play next and for what.  Thanks for any info.

[dyslexic nam]

3 minutes ago, The Ref said:

After the loss to Mexico are we now out of the Gold Cup?  When do we play next and for what.  Thanks for any info.

Out. 

[Free kick]

23 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I listened to Herc Gomez on the ESPN website talking about the chant delay and I was left wondering how many of the Mexican supporters in the Arlington stadium were American citizens (or what not: landed or undocumented immigrants, former anchor babies)?  I didn't think the border wasn't officially open until later in August because of the Covid surge down in the southern American states so that crowd would be all-American (in some form or another), wouldn't it?

 

I am fairly certain its all americans. Likely  1st, 2nd, 3rd generation americans.  I really cant see, based on what we hear of border stories down there,  that none (if not a very small portion) of that crowd were actual visiting mexican residents or citizens.

[MtlMario]

13 minutes ago, Free kick said:

I am fairly certain its all americans. Likely  1st, 2nd, 3rd generation americans.  I really cant see, based on what we hear of border stories down there,  that none (if not a very small portion) of that crowd were actual visiting mexican residents or citizens.

I wonder who they'll cheer for on Sunday?😎

[BearcatSA]

^It's seems pretty sanctimonious then for American pundits to be calling out the Mexico supporters in this particular stadium.

[BearcatSA]

1 minute ago, MtlMario said:

I wonder who they'll cheer for on Sunday?😎

This derby always seems like it is defacto home fixture for the Mexicans when played in California or Texas.

I will watch this match because I think there is even more potential for volatilty.

[Free kick]

5 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Honduras was ravaged by Covid and had all its young talent at the Olympics. Mexico is into semi finals in Tokyo. The US sent mostly a B team. Costa Rica will be far readier for us next time. ES were not a pushover, nor Jamaica. We were missing 4-6 starters I'd say for the key matches.

The fact is we did the minimum that could be expected of us. 

If we get close in WC qualifying, or qualify, the reasons won't necessarily have much to do with this tournament. If I'm wrong, it'll be one or two possible exceptions, which may be important won't deny it. But most of our success or failure over the next 14 days will be part of an entirely different book with its own cover. 

Yes, very few opponents fielded all of their best players.  And yes, WCQ will be totally new chapter and thats because the opponents will treat it differently and have full squads.
 

But, no, i cant concur that we did the minimum that could be expected.  And thats because we learned a number of things.  We learned that TB can play for us and start.   We learned the same for Eustachio.   We learnt at least that we can play games against CRC and Mexico and actually create chance and not have to be on our back heels for 90 minutes.   Sure things will be different in WCQ.  But if we compare our performance in this GC against these opponents versus past GC’s,  thats where you will see a difference.  

Edited July 31, 2021 by Free kick

[Bison44]

18 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

^It's seems pretty sanctimonious then for American pundits to be calling out the Mexico supporters in this particular stadium.

Why?? Just because the fans were americans??  They were still mexican supporters.  If you have a fanbase (from wherever), that thinks its cool to chant this shit then you should get called out.  

[Free kick]

25 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

I wonder who they'll cheer for on Sunday?😎

They will cheer for Mexico.  I have alluded to this in other posts recently; Concacaf is a unique conferation.  The central american countries could probably play all of their home WCQ matches in the US and they would get just as good (if not better) support.  The facilities and the $$$ they would get from it would be better than if they actaully played in their own countries.  I will bet, that if FIFA allowed it,  thats what would happen.

Edited July 31, 2021 by Free kick

[Corazon]

2 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Why?? Just because the fans were americans??  They were still mexican supporters.  If you have a fanbase (from wherever), that thinks its cool to chant this shit then you should get called out.  

I agree, we have small Canadian fan bases across the world.  If Canada was to play in another country and our local fanbase in that country does something inappropriate, then how could we punish that home country?

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Honestly, I think most have moved on from that particular debate.  

Doesn't look like it. 

[dyslexic nam]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Doesn't look like it. 

I will give you that one.  

[jtpc]

This was such an incredible match for us. I'm so proud of our guys. We played the giants of CONCACAF with no fear whatsoever. What a mentality change. In years past, we would have played cautious and hesitant, trying not to lose. Now, we play with aggression, intensity, total commitment, and self-belief. Winning has become an expectation, it's not just something hopeful.

I love the character of this team. The brotherhood. They're absolutely committed to one another in the pursuit of victory. Even a few days after the match, I still can't believe how close we were to defeating Mexico. We gave them all they could handle and they were damn lucky to win. With the fight we gave Mexico and the way we handled Costa Rica, I am very excited for WCQ.

[MauditYvon]

We also had a great game against the US imo

[JohnnyFranchise]

23 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Another angle of the 2nd melee from the stands - Alvarez and Tajon nearly dropped the gloves at one point:

 

thanks for posting that.

1. the dude shoving laryea and then putting his hands up like "no, no, no"

2. if i'm in a street fight i want kamal watching my back

3. tajon trying to act all tough, he backpedaled almost as fast as he runs forward, i want him nowhere near me if i'm in a street fight

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Edited July 31, 2021 by JohnnyFranchise

[Aird25]

44 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Doesn't look like it. 

Do you actually believe what you write, or is it just your method of getting people to talk?

[Joe MacCarthy]

46 minutes ago, JohnnyFranchise said:

2. if i'm in a street fight i want kamal watching my back

Or Crepeau, many of us have followed him since he was a young buck and he has matured into a real hard nosed competitor.  Tajon/Stache may be the obvious ones but to me Crepeau's stock has quietly risen with the others.  Did he set a foot wrong all tournament?  His decision making and execution were fantastic IMO.

 

Edited July 31, 2021 by Joe MacCarthy