Hugo-Hilaire Mbongue

[narduch]

24 minutes ago, jordan said:

What’s interesting is how reactions evolve over time, in previous years when Toronto did anything someone in the 514 or 604 would produce a chart on homegrown minutes, now if they sign a Canadian it’s just an F U for signing him with no chart. 
 

 

I criticize TFC for how it moves players from its Academy to its 1st team because to me it looks like they are still failing at it.

Its not because I hate the club.

In my opinion they are still not doing a good job of it. The first half of this season is an anomaly. The summer transfer window has basically shown that. They have reverted back to their old ways.

I wish Mbongue all the luck in the world, but I'm skeptical TFC will give him enough playing time to develop properly. I hope I am wrong.

[El Hombre]

10 minutes ago, narduch said:

In my opinion they are still not doing a good job of it. The first half of this season is an anomaly. The summer transfer window has basically shown that. They have reverted back to their old ways.

I don't think that's necessarily true.  If this is in reference to the Italian experiment, I think Insigne and Bernadeschi are not just filler.  They may have overpaid for Insigne, but I think he will be an important cog for the future.  As will Bernadeschi.  Criscito (wonder goal aside) I am not sold on.  But it's hard to say that they aren't improvements on the players available.

If this were the TFC of old, they would've tried to bring guys like Deleon or Mullins (both still unattached) or Endoh (playing with Galaxy II) back.  However, instead of going that direction for the journeyman filler, they went and got MAK and Henry (and Laryea fell into their laps).

Yes, the front office is still banking on the one or two big signings, but they are filling out the rest of the squad with players I like to see.  I'm optimistic.

[RS]

It's hugely naïve to think TFC was going to continue giving as many minutes to its academy kids after signing three (former?) Italian national teamers, two of whom are DPs, and three current CANMNT members in the summer window.

Yet, in the last game, Nelson, Okello and Akinola all started while JMR and Kerr came off the bench. Even Doneil Henry is an academy product who got into the game.

It's been a similar story since the transfer window, with most of the academy kids taking on a more limited role (as they should) but still playing a lot of minutes in games where TFC was fighting for its playoff life. Nelson has started the last 10 consecutive matches and Okello the past two. Others have shifted in and out of the lineup as deemed necessary (and they absolutely should've played more during that strange period when B. Bradley was only using 2 subs in each match during a 3-games-in-8-days stretch).

I get called a fucking FO apologist for pointing out the facts on this because my opinion is based on what's actually happening this year, not what happened in the past.

[dyslexic nam]

I mean, yesterday you called him an “insufferable piece of shit” so I think it is going both ways lol

[Kingston]

1 hour ago, narduch said:

The first half of this season is an anomaly. The summer transfer window has basically shown that. They have reverted back to their old ways.

The first half of the season was definitely an anomaly where the team played youngsters for huge minutes as they deliberately ran with a short roster while waiting for the transfer window.  And the results in the standings reflected that.  I don't think anyone expected that to continue through the second half of the season.

As to "reverting to their old ways", no, I don't think so.  Vanney was almost allergic to giving young players real chances.  Bradley has been more discerning with opportunities now that the big name players have arrived but he's still giving real minutes to youngsters.

[Gian-Luca]

45 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I mean, yesterday you called him an “insufferable piece of shit” so I think it is going both ways lol

I, on the other hand, tend to get called “a sufferable piece of shit” by most fans, so I am feeling quite good about myself in comparison. 

[RS]

49 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

I mean, yesterday you called him an “insufferable piece of shit” so I think it is going both ways lol

I called myself that, too. 😉

But my comment only came after he called me a TFC apologist, so I think it was fair. 

[Kadenge]

I'm so glad I picked Country over Club. So much less stressful 🙃 

[PopePouri]

4 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

I'm so glad I picked Country over Club. So much less stressful 🙃 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

5 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

I'm so glad I picked Country over Club. So much less stressful 🙃 

Historically if you keep them mostly seperated (or happen to grow up with them seperated) you can live in blissful balanced detente.

Our players getting better or your club playing more internationally threatens that though, in a very good way.

[Kadenge]

9 minutes ago, PopePouri said:

It is to me. I never have any mixed emotions about my country... at least when it comes to soccer 😊

[costarg]

23 hours ago, RS said:

 

it's clear that TFC is held to a higher standard for developing young kids than every other club in the country.

And fine, maybe they should be, given the talent pool in the GTA. 

However, I don't think TFC signing fewer Canadian kids is the answer, do you? 

 

 With all due respect, we're just a couple of soccer fans discussing something we're both obviously passionate about and also "on the same side" if we look at the big picture.  So there is a solid common ground and respect happening automatically.  

Here's a bit about me: I'm 49, I have two daughters 3 & 5, my parents immigrated to Canada, I work in IT, I like whisky, cooking, gardening and the occasional cigar.  I follow a few different sports.  CANMNT is my number 1.  If I had to fly just one flag it would be CANMNT.  There's a whole smorgasbord of different sports, teams and athletes that occupy the 2-15 spots.  If we stick to soccer, it's CFM followed by TFC along with VWC.  I don't feel I have to hate teams competing with CFM, that's just not how I roll.  I disliked Altidore, just as much as I disliked Felipe when he was with the Impact, cause I don't like the lack of respect they display for opponents and fans.

I love and critique all 3 Canadian MLS teams.  I don't get sensitive if someone picks on CFM for doing something stupid, for example: having 5 coaches in 5 years.  I can see and admit their faults, there are no hard feelings, it isn't personal, however I expect CFM to do better, I want them to be better.

Now that being said, I just can't fathom how many retard sandwiches one needs to eat to feel "TFC is held to higher standards for developing kids".  Is it because of the zero success they've had thus far?  If anything it's the complete opposite, and we're just upset at how many talented kids they wasted.  Sure we can look at the past few months and say, "hey look, they're awesome they're playing and signing Canadian kids", thing is, if a dude is an alcoholic and beats his wife, then manages one week without doing either, it doesn't make him a good guy all of a sudden.  TFC has been trash at developing the past 10 years, the past few months doesn't change that.  The key to succeeding in anything is consistency, and TFC hasn't shown that, they don't even have a plan, they just splurge and hoard.  Sure they've played kids the past few months, but there are still too many signed and piled up that are just rotting away with no minutes or proper development.  TFC is just hoarding and hoping they'll get to sell one if he plays well for a few weeks.  They envy VWC for Davies, they're looking at CFM and are trying to lightspeed their way to the same model, but can't help but go on a drunken shopping spree and sign 3 Italians.  All this while they're still going to therapy in search for closure for their David and Mitrovic issues.

We don't hate TFC, we're disappointed by their failure.  We want to see them succeed, we want to seem them develop the kids properly.  Peace!

 

[Floortom]

I’ve seen Mbongue a handful of times this season and have not been particularly impressed. He has a long ways to go IMO.

[RS]

1 hour ago, costarg said:

 With all due respect, we're just a couple of soccer fans discussing something we're both obviously passionate about and also "on the same side" if we look at the big picture.  So there is a solid common ground and respect happening automatically.  

Here's a bit about me: I'm 49, I have two daughters 3 & 5, my parents immigrated to Canada, I work in IT, I like whisky, cooking, gardening and the occasional cigar.  I follow a few different sports.  CANMNT is my number 1.  If I had to fly just one flag it would be CANMNT.  There's a whole smorgasbord of different sports, teams and athletes that occupy the 2-15 spots.  If we stick to soccer, it's CFM followed by TFC along with VWC.  I don't feel I have to hate teams competing with CFM, that's just not how I roll.  I disliked Altidore, just as much as I disliked Felipe when he was with the Impact, cause I don't like the lack of respect they display for opponents and fans.

I love and critique all 3 Canadian MLS teams.  I don't get sensitive if someone picks on CFM for doing something stupid, for example: having 5 coaches in 5 years.  I can see and admit their faults, there are no hard feelings, it isn't personal, however I expect CFM to do better, I want them to be better.

Now that being said, I just can't fathom how many retard sandwiches one needs to eat to feel "TFC is held to higher standards for developing kids".  Is it because of the zero success they've had thus far?  If anything it's the complete opposite, and we're just upset at how many talented kids they wasted.  Sure we can look at the past few months and say, "hey look, they're awesome they're playing and signing Canadian kids", thing is, if a dude is an alcoholic and beats his wife, then manages one week without doing either, it doesn't make him a good guy all of a sudden.  TFC has been trash at developing the past 10 years, the past few months doesn't change that.  The key to succeeding in anything is consistency, and TFC hasn't shown that, they don't even have a plan, they just splurge and hoard.  Sure they've played kids the past few months, but there are still too many signed and piled up that are just rotting away with no minutes or proper development.  TFC is just hoarding and hoping they'll get to sell one if he plays well for a few weeks.  They envy VWC for Davies, they're looking at CFM and are trying to lightspeed their way to the same model, but can't help but go on a drunken shopping spree and sign 3 Italians.  All this while they're still going to therapy in search for closure for their David and Mitrovic issues.

We don't hate TFC, we're disappointed by their failure.  We want to see them succeed, we want to seem them develop the kids properly.  Peace!

 

This is certainly a take. 

I’m too tired to respond to this right now. Maybe someone else will take a stab at it before I do — actually I’m hoping someone does because I feel like I’m banging my head against a wall at this point. 

Must be all the retard sandwiches.

[Corazon]

Hugo had a beautiful assist to Peruzza today for TFC II.  Kadin Chung also scored and Themi Antonoglou added an assist in the game for Toronto.  On the other side, Shaan Hundal scored twice for Inter Miami II in a 4-3 win for Miami.

[Sal333]

10 hours ago, costarg said:

 With all due respect, we're just a couple of soccer fans discussing something we're both obviously passionate about and also "on the same side" if we look at the big picture.  So there is a solid common ground and respect happening automatically.  

Here's a bit about me: I'm 49, I have two daughters 3 & 5, my parents immigrated to Canada, I work in IT, I like whisky, cooking, gardening and the occasional cigar.  I follow a few different sports.  CANMNT is my number 1.  If I had to fly just one flag it would be CANMNT.  There's a whole smorgasbord of different sports, teams and athletes that occupy the 2-15 spots.  If we stick to soccer, it's CFM followed by TFC along with VWC.  I don't feel I have to hate teams competing with CFM, that's just not how I roll.  I disliked Altidore, just as much as I disliked Felipe when he was with the Impact, cause I don't like the lack of respect they display for opponents and fans.

I love and critique all 3 Canadian MLS teams.  I don't get sensitive if someone picks on CFM for doing something stupid, for example: having 5 coaches in 5 years.  I can see and admit their faults, there are no hard feelings, it isn't personal, however I expect CFM to do better, I want them to be better.

Now that being said, I just can't fathom how many retard sandwiches one needs to eat to feel "TFC is held to higher standards for developing kids".  Is it because of the zero success they've had thus far?  If anything it's the complete opposite, and we're just upset at how many talented kids they wasted.  Sure we can look at the past few months and say, "hey look, they're awesome they're playing and signing Canadian kids", thing is, if a dude is an alcoholic and beats his wife, then manages one week without doing either, it doesn't make him a good guy all of a sudden.  TFC has been trash at developing the past 10 years, the past few months doesn't change that.  The key to succeeding in anything is consistency, and TFC hasn't shown that, they don't even have a plan, they just splurge and hoard.  Sure they've played kids the past few months, but there are still too many signed and piled up that are just rotting away with no minutes or proper development.  TFC is just hoarding and hoping they'll get to sell one if he plays well for a few weeks.  They envy VWC for Davies, they're looking at CFM and are trying to lightspeed their way to the same model, but can't help but go on a drunken shopping spree and sign 3 Italians.  All this while they're still going to therapy in search for closure for their David and Mitrovic issues.

We don't hate TFC, we're disappointed by their failure.  We want to see them succeed, we want to seem them develop the kids properly.  Peace!

 

For a second there your post started sounding like something you would write on a dating site.

Aside from that, I feel the exact same way. Great post.

[Ruffian]

13 hours ago, costarg said:

 With all due respect, we're just a couple of soccer fans discussing something we're both obviously passionate about and also "on the same side" if we look at the big picture.  So there is a solid common ground and respect happening automatically.  

Here's a bit about me: I'm 49, I have two daughters 3 & 5, my parents immigrated to Canada, I work in IT, I like whisky, cooking, gardening and the occasional cigar.  I follow a few different sports.  CANMNT is my number 1.  If I had to fly just one flag it would be CANMNT.  There's a whole smorgasbord of different sports, teams and athletes that occupy the 2-15 spots.  If we stick to soccer, it's CFM followed by TFC along with VWC.  I don't feel I have to hate teams competing with CFM, that's just not how I roll.  I disliked Altidore, just as much as I disliked Felipe when he was with the Impact, cause I don't like the lack of respect they display for opponents and fans.

I love and critique all 3 Canadian MLS teams.  I don't get sensitive if someone picks on CFM for doing something stupid, for example: having 5 coaches in 5 years.  I can see and admit their faults, there are no hard feelings, it isn't personal, however I expect CFM to do better, I want them to be better.

Now that being said, I just can't fathom how many retard sandwiches one needs to eat to feel "TFC is held to higher standards for developing kids".  Is it because of the zero success they've had thus far?  If anything it's the complete opposite, and we're just upset at how many talented kids they wasted.  Sure we can look at the past few months and say, "hey look, they're awesome they're playing and signing Canadian kids", thing is, if a dude is an alcoholic and beats his wife, then manages one week without doing either, it doesn't make him a good guy all of a sudden.  TFC has been trash at developing the past 10 years, the past few months doesn't change that.  The key to succeeding in anything is consistency, and TFC hasn't shown that, they don't even have a plan, they just splurge and hoard.  Sure they've played kids the past few months, but there are still too many signed and piled up that are just rotting away with no minutes or proper development.  TFC is just hoarding and hoping they'll get to sell one if he plays well for a few weeks.  They envy VWC for Davies, they're looking at CFM and are trying to lightspeed their way to the same model, but can't help but go on a drunken shopping spree and sign 3 Italians.  All this while they're still going to therapy in search for closure for their David and Mitrovic issues.

We don't hate TFC, we're disappointed by their failure.  We want to see them succeed, we want to seem them develop the kids properly.  Peace!

 

If you think criticizing TFC for signing Hugo-Hilaire Mbongue is a reasonable criticism it might be you who is on my retard sandwich.

[narduch]

For the record I wasn't even criticizing them for signing him. 

Just made a joke about TFC'S track record with Academy prospects.

[Corazon]

I'm from Toronto and obviously a TFC fan so maybe I have blinders on and are extra sensitive.  But the standard for Toronto seems to be different for Toronto vs others.  I was heavily critical of the lack of Canadian content with TFC last season, as were many.  Whitecaps start 2 Canadians last night and not a peep.  Toronto only starts 3 Canadians last season and its the worst club in the world for Canadians.  This season, TFC is starting 8 Canadians (mostly young) and now TFC is ruining all these young Canadian careers.  There is no winning if you're Toronto FC.  

I will agree that TFC should be loaning more of their youth players to CPL clubs like Montreal does.  It is clear that many of the young Canadians could use the experience at a lower level.  Unfortunately, TFC II with NEXTPro is too low of a level so there are a lot of young players caught in limbo.  Too good for TFC II, not quite MLS ready. 

From everything I've seen, Hugo is not ready for MLS.  But a loan to a CPL team could give him the added experience.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Corazon

[El Hombre]

15 minutes ago, Corazon said:

I'm from Toronto and obviously a TFC fan so maybe I have blinders on and are extra sensitive.  But the standard for Toronto seems to be different for Toronto vs others.  I was heavily critical of the lack of Canadian content with TFC last season, as were many.  Whitecaps start 2 Canadians last night and not a peep. 

There is no denying that there is extra scrutiny about TFC.  Looking at VWFC, the fact that Lowell Wright only has 22 minutes with VWFC II is a travesty.  Unless injured, this move from York to VWFC could be catastrophic.

[rydermike]

This contract is the best thing for him. I saw some comments about possibly testing CPL/other markets, he probably couldn't. He signed a pro contract with TFCII this year. At minimum, that was probably a 2+1 deal, meaning he was locked in with TFC until 2024.

No idea what an MLSNP salary looks like, but this contract probably doubled it at minimum (if not triple or more). Financially, it makes sense to increase his salary when he was already locked in with TFC.

[RS]

I’m glad to see I’m not the only one eating retard sandwiches around here.

[Obinna]

I kind of feel in the middle of both sides of this argument. Yes Toronto could do better at progressing players into their first team. However, they have also produced several players who went on to do good elsewhere, and ironically two of them are now back (Kaye and Henry). 

Also, I don't really care that Priso's little brother was given a first team contract. I don't think it means much in the grande scheme of things. If he somehow finds another level, he'll get first team minutes. If he doesn't he'll play with the second team. What's the big deal, isn't he like 18 years old? If anything we should be happy he won a first team contract at that age.

If TFC2 is not giving him what he needs, maybe TFC take a page out of Montreal's book and loan him to the CPL. That would be great.

The end.

[Bison44]

Does anyone actually watch the nextpro games? I have tried and its almost impossible so I couldnt tell you if the kid is deserving a MLS contract.  Good luck, hopefully he continues to develop.

As for TFC being held to a higher standard, well i guess that comes with the territory eh?  They have the most fans on here, there is more talk overall about them and their prospects and therefore more people complaining about their mistakes.  BOO HOO.  I couldnt have a intelligent convo about Van or the Impact kids because I dont study them like I do TFC.  I am not going to slam Van about habibulah's development cause I dont follow it close enough.  No need to be fair and balanced with complaining.    

[Ruffian]

14 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

Does anyone actually watch the nextpro games? I have tried and its almost impossible so I couldnt tell you if the kid is deserving a MLS contract.  Good luck, hopefully he continues to develop.

As for TFC being held to a higher standard, well i guess that comes with the territory eh?  They have the most fans on here, there is more talk overall about them and their prospects and therefore more people complaining about their mistakes.  BOO HOO.  I couldnt have a intelligent convo about Van or the Impact kids because I dont study them like I do TFC.  I am not going to slam Van about habibulah's development cause I dont follow it close enough.  No need to be fair and balanced with complaining.    

I used to watch TFC2 a lot when they were available on YouTube but now I never do.