Hugo-Hilaire Mbongue

[RS]

I see you, @Obinna 🤣

[costarg]

2 hours ago, RS said:

God, you're such an insufferable piece of shit when anyone even slightly disagrees with you.

Before you say it, so am I. That's how I know you are one as well.

Technically, you're the one disagreeing with most people on this point.

Here's a game: find me one other person who doesn't feel that TFC signs too many Canadian kids and doesn't develop or play them.

[RS]

32 minutes ago, costarg said:

Technically, you're the one disagreeing with most people on this point.

Here's a game: find me one other person who doesn't feel that TFC signs too many Canadian kids and doesn't develop or play them.

Technically, I responded after three people had kind of similar points. And two others 'liked' my first response but didn't post anything else in the thread. 

As for your "game," it's a rather loaded one, especially given the actual minutes given to Canadian kids this year. Yes, there are many on here who share your point of view. That doesn't make it any less tiresome to see it come out every time any academy kid is discussed on this board.

Without going into the "whataboutism" that I was accused of earlier (even though I only brought it up in response to being insulted), it's clear that TFC is held to a higher standard for developing young kids than every other club in the country.

And fine, maybe they should be, given the talent pool in the GTA. 

However, I don't think TFC signing fewer Canadian kids is the answer, do you? 

 

[Metro]

3 hours ago, RS said:

 

The open DP spot will almost certainly be filled by a forward, and I don't think TFC can get rid of both Jimenez and Akinola that easily, so he'll immediately be behind them as well. I'm guessing this doesn't mean good news for Perruzza, though.

If Osorio leaves, I am expecting (well, hoping) that DP target changes to a #8.

[Shway]

12 hours ago, Shway said:

Another hoarding deal it seems.

@RS not strange, considering you know the current climate of TFC and you couldn’t answer the question of “where is he going to play” yourself…..

so how does it not seem like a signing just to sign him?

Alsooooo the talk of Peruzza going would be another short sited move considering we essentially lost JRR for him, who’s a completely different option for a what we have. 

It’s all great in theory when these HG signings happen, but it means fuck all if they don’t get to play, or they get an opportunity and perform only for it to be then taken by them for an old man with no future. 

I don’t get excited anymore is all I’m saying. I kinda rather prefer to hear that they signed somewhere else…. That they got out. Because some of these moves and signings haven’t made sense.

[Shway]

8 hours ago, Metro said:

If Osorio leaves, I am expecting (well, hoping) that DP target changes to a #8.

Why Ironman Bradley is still there.

[Ivan]

Not that I get overly excited by these types of signings either, but you can put me in the group that likes when TFC (or any team for that matter) signs young Canadian players.  They get their pro journey started.  Where they go is up to them.  And it's pretty difficult to argue against the amount the PT young players have received for TFC this year.

[El Hombre]

26 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Not that I get overly excited by these types of signings either, but you can put me in the group that likes when TFC (or any team for that matter) signs young Canadian players.  They get their pro journey started.  Where they go is up to them.  And it's pretty difficult to argue against the amount the PT young players have received for TFC this year.

I'm in this camp.  I've been critical of TFC in the past for sure (@RS can attest to that) but signing a kid from their academy is not a bad thing.  Its strange to see the reaction to this while also saying that not signing JRR was a missed opportunity.

My issue is when these kids get stuck to the bench when there aren't appreciably better options on the field.  But if this gets him on the bench instead of some also ran 30 year old, I'm okay with it.

Also, it is the player who actually signs the contract.  If Mbongue thought he had better options elsewhere (and I've got to believe that he doesn't have complete blinders on or is operating in a vacuum), he could have tested that market or CPL if he thought there was no future with TFC. 

However, I think with how this team has operated this year, he may be bullish about his future with TFC.  In fact, I may be as well.  With respect to near future opportunities, I'm more optimistic in Mbongue getting a chance than Lowell Wright which is unfortunate because I see Wright as the better prospect.

[RS]

2 hours ago, Shway said:

@RS not strange, considering you know the current climate of TFC and you couldn’t answer the question of “where is he going to play” yourself…..

For this specific player it was strange timing given the other (and likely future) options there, but the current climate of TFC has seen the team play more homegrowns this season than any other in its history. The numbers don't lie despite people's feelings on the matter.

Maybe they were just "placeholders" until better players were eventually brought in, but that's exactly how professional soccer works. Unless they are bonafide superstars in the making, young players generally have to rely on older players being injured/unavailable to get some playing time, and prove themselves from there. 

If anything, TFC playing too many young players at once is why they are going to miss the playoffs this year. Teams generally don't throw out six or seven 18-21 year olds in their starting lineup, but that's what TFC was doing for half the year.

14 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

I've been critical of TFC in the past for sure (@RS can attest to that)

I don't care if people are critical of TFC or any team, to be honest. I just prefer if the criticism was balanced and reflects reality.

When "Whitecaps hate Canada" was a thing, I thought it was harsh and not really reflective of what was going on at the time (and they were in the middle of helping develop the best player Canada has ever produced, even if he "fell in their lap").

Things are often far more nuanced than the black and white way some on here see them, and I think that's where a lot of the friction comes from (on my end).

[dyslexic nam]

Wait, are you alleging that the people on this board can have hyperbolic over-reactions to relatively minor things?   No way.  I don’t believe it.  

[RS]

1 minute ago, dyslexic nam said:

Wait, are you alleging that the people on this board can have hyperbolic over-reactions to relatively minor things?   No way.  I don’t believe it.  

It’s human nature, especially when tribalism (sports) is thrown in. 

I’ve been guilty of it at times too.

[El Hombre]

1 hour ago, dyslexic nam said:

Wait, are you alleging that the people on this board can have hyperbolic over-reactions to relatively minor things?   No way.  I don’t believe it.  

This sounds a lot like projection to me.

[dyslexic nam]

15 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

This sounds a lot like projection to me.

Them sounds like fightin words…

[Kadenge]

1 hour ago, RS said:

 

If anything, TFC playing too many young players at once is why they are going to miss the playoffs this year. Teams generally don't throw out six or seven 18-21 year olds in their starting lineup, but that's what TFC was doing for half the year.

I don't care if people are critical of TFC or any team, to be honest. I just prefer if the criticism was balanced and reflects reality.

It's clear from the number of posts on the TFC/TFC player threads that the  majority of  people on this board follow or watch TFC as fans or not. So they are more aware or familiar with their club & player performance/activity  and  if things are not going right for their club team they will be critical. That's normal behavior. I for one am not as familiar with the academy players at Vancouver or Montreal but I'm sure their fans are. While I would like to think that we all want our Canadian players, especially young players to succeed at all 3 clubs, TFC given their past success, GTA talent and resources of their ownership is expected to be the leaders. We should not settle for the lowest common denominator for the sake of balance. While I agree that TFC  played too many teens at the same time and out of their normal positions and  that very well may be the reason the club missed the playoffs, they missed the playoffs last season playing all vets. It's become a bit of a mantra among some TFC fans to blame young players when things don't go right. It's not like TFC went on a winning streak after the big guns landed and many of those young players went to the bench. They looked very good for a few games and then just fizzled out.  

[RS]

4 minutes ago, Kadenge said:

While I agree that TFC  played too many teens at the same time and out of their normal positions and  that very well may be the reason the club missed the playoffs, they missed the playoffs last season playing all vets.

Both things can be true, though. That's what I mean when I say things aren't nearly as black and white as they can be portrayed.

Last year they had too many mediocre vets (or too many vets past their prime). This year they relied too heavily on kids for the first half of the year while trying to rebuild the roster. Neither is a good situation for a team to be in.

That's not blaming the kids. The team still doesn't have enough good, experienced depth to truly compete, which is on the front office (more on Curtis than B. Bradley, since the latter is tasked with undoing the clusterfuck left for him by the former).

For the kids to succeed, they need to be in a balanced team that puts them under less pressure than what the TFC kids were under for several months this year. It's (partially) why Kone has looked so good in Montreal, because he can make mistakes and have a great team around him to mitigate them.

Put Kone on the TFC team from the first half of the season and I don't think he looks nearly as good, which speaks less to his talent and more to the situation.

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, RS said:

When "Whitecaps hate Canada" was a thing, I thought it was harsh and not really reflective of what was going on at the time (and they were in the middle of helping develop the best player Canada has ever produced, even if he "fell in their lap").

I would change that now to  "Whitecaps hate the Lower Mainland," because they only have one guy on their roster born and bred from there (Baldisimo, who will probably be jettisoned at season's end).  Granted, that discussion has a whole lot of  dimensions to it.  However, their m.o. still is to acquire cheap, experienced but relatively young Cancon to fill their senior domestic spots (or, NCAA draft pick).

I am skeptical as to how much ceiling some of the TFC Academy grads who have featured this year actually have but at least they are earning a shot with their hometown club.  

Edit:  Heck, TFC played a Vancouver born and bred Whitecaps Academy grad!

Edited September 14, 2022 by BearcatSA

[Ruffian]

I have learned to disregard @narduch comments. His opinions are useless because he has a hate for TFC. He has the second most posts in the TFC thread of a team he only hates.

[jordan]

What’s interesting is how reactions evolve over time, in previous years when Toronto did anything someone in the 514 or 604 would produce a chart on homegrown minutes, now if they sign a Canadian it’s just an F U for signing him with no chart. 
 

 

[InglewoodJack]

I think bottom line is, if you're not good enough, you won't play, and not every guy that TFC casts aside is a hidden gem who would've flourished given the right minutes. If you're a TFC fan, you should want them to play their best players, ie the Italians and CANMNT guys etc., and if you're a CANMNT fan, you should consider that if the kid is good enough, like Kone for Montreal, like JMR pre-injury, he will stick out, and he will get noticed. Most of the time, when players don't get minutes, it's because they aren't good enough.

[narduch]

19 minutes ago, Ruffian said:

I have learned to disregard @narduch comments. His opinions are useless because he has a hate for TFC. He has the second most posts in the TFC thread of a team he only hates.

I also pay them for season tickets, I really am a fucking idiot.

I guess I can mark you down as an FO apologist with RS now. Duly noted.

Edited September 14, 2022 by narduch

[El Hombre]

4 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I think bottom line is, if you're not good enough, you won't play, and not every guy that TFC casts aside is a hidden gem who would've flourished given the right minutes. If you're a TFC fan, you should want them to play their best players, ie the Italians and CANMNT guys etc., and if you're a CANMNT fan, you should consider that if the kid is good enough, like Kone for Montreal, like JMR pre-injury, he will stick out, and he will get noticed. Most of the time, when players don't get minutes, it's because they aren't good enough.

This is only true of TFC's very recent past.  You would have a hard time making this argument prior to this past season.

I'm optimistic that TFC is moving in the right direction in this regard.

[Ruffian]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

I guess I can mark you down as an FO apologist with RS now. Duly noted.

Ye, put it in your diary.

[RS]

3 minutes ago, narduch said:

I guess I can mark you down as an FO apologist with RS now. Duly noted.

I guess you must have missed the post on this very page where I called the Curtis era of TFC a clusterfuck. Goes against your narrative, I suppose.

It's cool that you decided to take an unsolicited shot at me, though. FO, indeed.

 

[narduch]

2 minutes ago, RS said:

I guess you must have missed the post on this very page where I called the Curtis era of TFC a clusterfuck. Goes against your narrative, I suppose.

It's cool that you decided to take an unsolicited shot at me, though. FO, indeed.

 

You are so close to getting it.

[RS]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

You are so close to getting it.

OK.