The Road to Qatar.

[king1010]

ooff. Canadafan and Obinna having a rough one in here. Take the L and move the discussion to fb.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

16 minutes ago, king1010 said:

ooff. Canadafan and Obinna having a rough one in here. Take the L and move the discussion to fb.  

No leave it here. You don't know how satisfying it is for me when I am not at all involved. It is like watching a river flow by.

[Obinna]

27 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

This isnt an opinion thing, he quoted 2 numbers trying to make his point and he had to admit both were wrong.   Now he still has his opinion and it hasnt changed, but he was man enough to admit he didnt use good numbers to prove his opinion. Which I can respect.

You pull a bunch of physcho bable about people being progagandized and cognitive dissonance out, insinuating rational posters will get it. Basically saying people who want the facts a person uses to be correct are not being rational??  I'll get it too if he comes back with some kind of fact that isnt wrong.  

You can see the edit from my last post, but in a nutshell he was wrong about the statistics, but that didn't change his argument, that's why his opinion never changed.

The point was that America is not significantly less safe, for all intents and purposes. The statistical differences in safety are overblown by repeatedly using charged language to describe those statistics. The statistics are what they are. The propaganda is in how they talk about those statistics. Repetition is very effective. 

It is easy to lose sight of the forest from the trees when you are bombarded with the same messaging over and over and over again. 

Hope that answers your questions. Cheers!

[dyslexic nam]

[Bison44]

So you say its not significantly less safe??  And that should just be the end of it, and anyone else who has facts to dispute that is just falling for propaganda??   Ahhhhh, ic.  That does answer a lot of things...and no F3cking cheers back.  

[archer21]

3 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

The numbers are negligible because they are so low. We're talking about ~300 deaths between two countries with a population of over 350 million. In terms of this forum and what we're talking about - a soccer game - it's negligible, yes.

Realistically, the number of deaths is irrelevant when talking about the state of covid right now and the likelihood of becoming sick by going there. The amount of people becoming sick each day is a much better statistic to use. We had high numbers of sickness a while ago, so those people who became sick back then are dying now. That doesn’t mean that you’re currently at a high risk of getting Covid in Canada now. The numbers have nosedived since our vaccination rates have gone through the roof. Even if you were originally right and there were more deaths per capita in Canada right now (there aren’t), that still wouldn’t prove that it’s safer or as safe in the US.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, Bison44 said:

So you say its not significantly less safe??  And that should just be the end of it, and anyone else who has facts to dispute that is just falling for propaganda??   Ahhhhh, ic.  That does answer a lot of things...and no F3cking cheers back.  

No. Read my posts again. If you still can't understand what I have been saying PM me and I will try again.

[SthMelbRed]

Fucking brilliant this!

A guy...let's call him Moron #1...posts statistics which he truly believes support his ridiculous hypothesis. The numbers that he posts clearly show the opposite to what he's claiming...a Grade 4 math student could see it immediately. He's immediately called out on his most basic of errors.

So, what does he do?

A - retreat from this forum for a suitable period of time until his personal shame and public embarrassment subsides?

-or-

B - accuse his more numerate opponents of being too thick to understand what he REALLY meant by posting numbers that actually contradicted his alleged point?

Over to you, @CanadaFan123, I mean Moron #1. 

🙄

[Obinna]

37 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

B - accuse his more numerate opponents of being too thick to understand what he REALLY meant by posting numbers that actually contradicted his alleged point?

Over to you, @CanadaFan123, I mean Moron #1. 

🙄

Except he clarified his position here:

6 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Upon further reflection, I stand corrected on both of the above. 

The general point stands - I don't think anyone in general is at more risk in the USA or Canada at this time. The numbers are negligible. 

And here:

6 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

The numbers are negligible because they are so low. We're talking about ~300 deaths between two countries with a population of over 350 million. In terms of this forum and what we're talking about - a soccer game - it's negligible, yes.

And despite that, nobody (except Archer) acknowledged the fact we are talking about a handful of soccer players. I don't agree with Archer, but I respect him for giving a counterpoint.

By the way, I love how you tend to come in at the tail end of these shit storms, usually with one of the most outlandish (and often rude) posts of all. I bet it's because of the time difference down in Melbourne, innit?

[lenny]

2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Fucking brilliant this!

A guy...let's call him Moron #1...posts statistics which he truly believes support his ridiculous hypothesis. The numbers that he posts clearly show the opposite to what he's claiming...a Grade 4 math student could see it immediately. He's immediately called out on his most basic of errors.

So, what does he do?

A - retreat from this forum for a suitable period of time until his personal shame and public embarrassment subsides?

-or-

B - accuse his more numerate opponents of being too thick to understand what he REALLY meant by posting numbers that actually contradicted his alleged point?

Over to you, @CanadaFan123, I mean Moron #1. 

🙄

Innumeracy and shamelessness are the superpowers of the truthers.

Why do the moderators allow this nonsense though?

https://www.canadiansoccernews.com/forums/topic/77063-gold-cup-2021/page/25/?tab=comments#comment-939080

 

[SthMelbRed]

2 hours ago, Obinna said:

Except he clarified his position here:

And here:

And despite that, nobody (except Archer) acknowledged the fact we are talking about a handful of soccer players. I don't agree with Archer, but I respect him for giving a counterpoint.

By the way, I love how you tend to come in at the tail end of these shit storms, usually with one of the most outlandish (and often rude) posts of all. I bet it's because of the time difference down in Melbourne, innit?

Indeed. This particular beauty of Vs Forum gold occurred while I was still tucked up warmly in bed, having stayed up a bit late last night to watch the Olympics opening ceremony. 

On your other points, I simply don't buy the guy's piss-poor attempts at clarification. Read the mocking tones of his opening salvo again. Note the condescension and triumphalism as he posts the statistics that show up his opponent. He should rightly be embarrassed by this episode, yet somehow comes away thinking he's won this round. This is some serious gas-lighting bullshit.

Edited July 24, 2021 by SthMelbRed
embarrassingly missed apostrophe! :-(

[RS]

Just logging in after a nice summer day/evening away from the internet.

I see the board’s resident devil’s advocate is defending another idiotic COVID truther. Cool.

[CanadaFan123]

9 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Fucking brilliant this!

A guy...let's call him Moron #1...posts statistics which he truly believes support his ridiculous hypothesis. The numbers that he posts clearly show the opposite to what he's claiming...a Grade 4 math student could see it immediately. He's immediately called out on his most basic of errors.

So, what does he do?

A - retreat from this forum for a suitable period of time until his personal shame and public embarrassment subsides?

-or-

B - accuse his more numerate opponents of being too thick to understand what he REALLY meant by posting numbers that actually contradicted his alleged point?

Over to you, @CanadaFan123, I mean Moron #1. 

🙄

Yes, it was a basic error. I admit that. My basic point was that the difference between Canada or USA right now in terms or safety is negligible. 
 

I suppose being a math genius takes away from your ability to read, “moron”.

I agree with @archer21 that is the point I’m making. Not that any place is safer than the other - I really don’t get how people can jump all over numbers and miss the basic crux of the argument.

Edited July 24, 2021 by CanadaFan123

[Shway]

Just wondering.... @SthMelbRed do you know how to strongly get your point across without name calling? Whether you're wrong or right, you do it a lot and it comes across as you are unlettered or just a sheer tough guy.

[SthMelbRed]

16 minutes ago, Shway said:

Just wondering.... @SthMelbRed do you know how to strongly get your point across without name calling? Whether you're wrong or right, you do it a lot and it comes across as you are unlettered or just a sheer tough guy.

There's a certain type of person that I just don't like. I see no reason why I should hide my contempt for those who will wilfully put others at risk by sharing their idiotic world view in public forums. In other aspects of my life, I use discretion and diplomacy when communicating with others, even when I disagree with them. However, not everyone is worthy of that treatment.

[El Hombre]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Yes, it was a basic error. I admit that. My basic point was that the difference between Canada or USA right now in terms or safety is negligible. 
 

I suppose being a math genius takes away from your ability to read, “moron”.

I agree with @archer21 that is the point I’m making. Not that any place is safer than the other - I really don’t get how people can jump all over numbers and miss the basic crux of the argument.

The issue though is that you can't say it is negligible when you are comparing Canada to the USA, which is what started this.  Your numbers indicate that the incidence is two to three times higher in the USA than in Canada, adjusted for population.  Two to three times higher is significant.

Now, if you were comparing to the rest of the world, I could see how the numbers could be considered negligible.  But that's not what was being discussed.

***The opinion expressed here is that of a "propagandized individual" and therefore does not reflect the general views of the board in any way, shape, or form.***

Edited July 24, 2021 by El Hombre

[El Hombre]

15 hours ago, MtlMario said:

I just want to point out that the US pop. is about 325 mil. compared to ours which is about 38 mil. So the actual difference is about 8.5 times the difference. I had to clarify that after hearing so many times the 10 X difference. That's all.

Yeah, my bad.  I chose 10x because it makes the math easy.  If you go with the actual difference it makes things look worse in the US.

[archer21]

1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Yes, it was a basic error. I admit that. My basic point was that the difference between Canada or USA right now in terms or safety is negligible. 
 

I suppose being a math genius takes away from your ability to read, “moron”.

I agree with @archer21 that is the point I’m making. Not that any place is safer than the other - I really don’t get how people can jump all over numbers and miss the basic crux of the argument.

Just so we’re clear, I do not agree with you that the difference is negligible. Illinois has almost 7 times the number of daily new cases as Ontario, despite having a smaller population. Florida has 62 times the number of daily new cases as Ontario, though they have about 1.5x the population. So let’s say 40 times the likelihood of getting Covid. These are not negligible differences in any way. If your argument is the likelihood of players getting sick is low no matter what the stats say, it seems odd to bring them up in the first place. 
 

*I picked Illinois and Florida because it was brought up that our players were walking around Chicago, and because we often play in Florida. I think Texas (where we are now) falls somewhere between Illinois and Florida in terms of daily new cases, but closer to Illinois’.

[CanadaFan123]

20 minutes ago, archer21 said:

Just so we’re clear, I do not agree with you that the difference is negligible. Illinois has almost 7 times the number of daily new cases as Ontario, despite having a smaller population. Florida has 62 times the number of daily new cases as Ontario, though they have about 1.5x the population. So let’s say 40 times the likelihood of getting Covid. These are not negligible differences in any way. If your argument is the likelihood of players getting sick is low no matter what the stats say, it seems odd to bring them up in the first place. 
 

*I picked Illinois and Florida because it was brought up that our players were walking around Chicago, and because we often play in Florida. I think Texas (where we are now) falls somewhere between Illinois and Florida in terms of daily new cases, but closer to Illinois’.

Certainly you have a higher chance of catching it but that is likely down to the openness, whereas we’ve had lockdowns. I just don’t agree with the original poster who said it’s a mess in the states. Vaccinations are readily available and the mortality rate is extremely low. In the context of safety I don’t think you’re any more at risk - hence my negligible point. The numbers, risk wise, don’t support the notion that the states are a “mess”. 

[TOcanadafan]

[Alex]

I really just hope we go to Qatar

[Obinna]

Gonna be kinda of hard if aren't allowed to have fans for our home games, but hey what an accomplishment it would be if we did so despite that.

[CanadaFan123]

2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

There's a certain type of person that I just don't like. I see no reason why I should hide my contempt for those who will wilfully put others at risk by sharing their idiotic world view in public forums. In other aspects of my life, I use discretion and diplomacy when communicating with others, even when I disagree with them. However, not everyone is worthy of that treatment.

I’m putting others at risk? You’re brilliant. News flash genius, our men’s team has played all of their matches by choice in the United States this year. You have no clue about my general view on covid or vaccinations (hint - I am vaccinated) but somehow I’m putting others at risk by pointing out that the United States is not measurably unsafer than Canada at this time. You need help. 

[Obinna]

2 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

There's a certain type of person that I just don't like. I see no reason why I should hide my contempt for those who will wilfully put others at risk by sharing their idiotic world view in public forums. 

 

19 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

I’m putting others at risk? You’re brilliant. News flash genius, our men’s team has played all of their matches by choice in the United States this year. You have no clue about my general view on covid or vaccinations (hint - I am vaccinated) but somehow I’m putting others at risk by pointing out that the United States is not measurably unsafer than Canada at this time. You need help. 

Fucking brilliant this!

Edited July 24, 2021 by Obinna

[RS]

3 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

There's a certain type of person that I just don't like. I see no reason why I should hide my contempt for those who will wilfully put others at risk by sharing their idiotic world view in public forums. In other aspects of my life, I use discretion and diplomacy when communicating with others, even when I disagree with them. However, not everyone is worthy of that treatment.

I share this sentiment with increased frequency of late (even though I’ve been on the end of your contempt in the past 🤣).