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Gold Cup - June 19th 2019 - Canada vs Mexico


apbsmith

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Watched the game again. I think the boys can take something positive out of this game. They faired well and can use this as motivation should they meet Mexico again. The second Mx goal was outstanding but a lot of space was given. Also the other two goals were off of errors. The boys can keep their heads up and know they had chances. They got to tweak their game that’s all. 

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10 hours ago, Ansem said:

He would have failed. You make it sounds so easy...

Seriously, if there are things to take away from this experiment is that you dont sit down defending because they eventually break your defense 

The other thing is that if you press their defense, they prove vulnerable and make mistakes to exploit.

Lesson is, you got to take it to them, not park the bus

 

Interesting point. During the game I was thinking how Rémi Garde’s pressing formation and counter attack would’ve performed against a team this talented.

Mexico did a good job smothering us when we had the ball. 3 guys on one. 

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22 minutes ago, Moldy9 said:

Watched the game again. I think the boys can take something positive out of this game. They faired well and can use this as motivation should they meet Mexico again. The second Mx goal was outstanding but a lot of space was given. Also the other two goals were off of errors. The boys can keep their heads up and know they had chances. They got to tweak their game that’s all. 

But our goal came off of a bad error as well.  Can you imagine if Henry had that happen to him, heaven forbid? 

I really liked our play once we got our subs on the pitch.  We can really sting an opponent off the counter from midfield turnovers or even closer to our goal when the opponent has numbers advanced up the pitch.  That makes us a very dangerous proposition for anybody.  With our defending, we'll need Borjan to be at his very best because he will certainly be tested come the QF and hopefully beyond.

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11 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

But our goal came off of a bad error as well.  Can you imagine if Henry had that happen to him, heaven forbid? 

I really liked our play once we got our subs on the pitch.  We can really sting an opponent off the counter from midfield turnovers or even closer to our goal when the opponent has numbers advanced up the pitch.  That makes us a very dangerous proposition for anybody.  With our defending, we'll need Borjan to be at his very best because he will certainly be tested come the QF and hopefully beyond.

True we forced an error and capitalized as well. I’m just saying the guys can’t think Mexico is invincible. We scored on them. We had chances. 

A wise man once said this...

 

 

AFAB8FF1-3B96-47E6-9DE0-84AFD6EE9AD1.jpeg

Edited by Moldy9
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6 minutes ago, Moldy9 said:

Interesting point. During the game I was thinking how Rémi Garde’s pressing formation and counter attack would’ve performed against a team this talented.

Mexico did a good job smothering us when we had the ball. 3 guys on one. 

Our lack of friendlies showed here for us - we couldn't scramble and press effectively because we were defensively uncoordinated. You can learn attacking patterns in training but gaining the comfort necessary with your periphery to gang up and close down opposing players is something that a team has to feel its way into.

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4 minutes ago, Moldy9 said:

True we forced an error and capitalized as well. I’m just saying the guys can’t think Mexico is invincible. We scored on them. We had chances. 

Just like they forced us into errors leading to their goals.  But I like how we were able to generate stuff off of their turnovers and really make something out of nothing with direct play off the dribble.  Davies taking those guys on and making his chance or Cavalini bullrushing in that 1 v 1 and blasting at Ochoa:  that's great stuff.  And the best chance was probably the one that David misjudged. 

It helps to have quality, in-form guys on the attack.

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8 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

Yeah, I liked OZ and the style he brought but this just comes across as petty. Better to stay silent that act like this. At first, I honestly thought it was a joke post either by a fake account or by someone on this board just having a laugh.  

The disappointing part for me is that there were rumblings by the media pundits two years ago suggesting that OZ had also been turfed because of unprofessionalism. I didn't take those claims seriously since no proof was offered and the whole thing seemed to be an excuse to get Herdman into the role. But when you see something tacky like this done in public, it makes you wonder if there was some truth to those claims after all.

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41 minutes ago, Moldy9 said:

True we forced an error and capitalized as well. I’m just saying the guys can’t think Mexico is invincible. We scored on them. We had chances. 

A wise man once said this...

 

 

AFAB8FF1-3B96-47E6-9DE0-84AFD6EE9AD1.jpeg

I second that.

During the US Golden years, that team didn't fear Mexico and weren't afraid to press their defense which got them the results.

Dont get me wrong, Mexico is a talented team but not being able to pass the round of 16 in WC shows a pattern. Euro teams aren't afraid of them so they press their defense and Mexico start making costly mistakes...but you need the tools to do that.

Canada now have such tools. We saw a hungry Osorio who looked like a pitbull looking to maul someone. Cavallini who was pure swag looked like this was just another Liga MX game, David who wanted to play fancy because hey...he's been in Europa and had Genk in his face all season long. Arfield who faced Liverpool, Both Manchester, Arsenal and Chelsea while now having to contain Celtic, he'sseen it and been there---done that. Davies now in Bundesliga. Borjan who stopped Liverpool in CL. We have the guys to press them and they dont fear Mexico and that's a 1st for the CanMNT. Hutchinson? He's faced tough foes.

 I think that's what those guys demonstrated at the 60th minute when the triple change happened which gave Cavallini & Davies reinforcements. They pressed that defense, forced them into mistakes but we have the talent to capitalize on it and had so many chances. We took it to them and that's the only way to beat them.

Looking back at the goals we conceded, the 1st one, we were down 1 guy temporarily, 2nd goal, we turned it over, 3rd goal, its was an own goal of the foot of Davies. We didn't capitalize on our chances except for that mistake when they turned it over.

Herdman and the A squad will have seen that, they can win. Mexico isn't invincible. Our defense needed to get tested the way they did because they were on CNL qualifiers mode and needed to be taken from the "normal" difficulty level to "hard". Like Herdman said, he saw a 19 & 21 year old survive out there against the best in CONCACAF. Quite frankly, I expected much worse. They are young, they will learn from this and adjust...they need to see that level more often.

Odds are still against us but we can do it. The way it went down last night could only have boosted their confidence and made them hungrier. 

Can't sit back back defending, we have to take it to them and with the quality midfield and forwards, we should be pressing them as much as possible and avoid parking the bus, they are counting on us doing that. Arfield & Osorio wont allow it, neither will Cavallini, Davies and David.

End of rant

 

Edited by Ansem
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I prefer a pressing posture, as well, because we now have the horses in those positions to make it happen.  I'm not sure we have what it takes in the back line for this tourney, but I'd rather see us go out playing assertively. 

Hey, they're also going to be looking over the game tape and re-adjusting their approach should we face them down the road in this tourney.  Regardless, I'm looking forward to some brave play from us and not a repeat of "Four centrebacks in a do or die match" used in this tournament four years ago in Toronto. 

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12 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

“I think as a measuring stick, we were able to see 21- and 19-year-old players with no experience against this type of opposition, and living there,” Canada manager John Herdman said postgame. “Living against their $35 million-dollar players. Tonight was real learning for those guys.”

Can anyone tell me where/who these $35 million dollar players were? 

Mexico is good but why do we have to exaggerate so much?  

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/apr/03/wolves-raul-jimenez-mexico-30m-permanent-signing-record-benfica

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7 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

I prefer a pressing posture, as well, because we now have the horses in those positions to make it happen.  I'm not sure we have what it takes in the back line for this tourney, but I'd rather see us go out playing assertively. 

Hey, they're also going to be looking over the game tape and re-adjusting their approach should we face them down the road in this tourney.  Regardless, I'm looking forward to some brave play from us and not a repeat of "Four centrebacks in a do or die match" used in this tournament four years ago in Toronto. 

Given our back line, a high press (ie. start defending in their end) makes even more sense to me. 

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No complaints from me about anyone. That last 30 minutes was a blast...Herdman's a lucky boy to inherit that collection of players. We just need some improvements in defense but that may come with more experience.

I still think Piette's a fine destroyer and belongs on field in the next game we have against a strong opponent...I hope his development hasn't stalled since his move to MLS (I haven't had a chance to watch much of his play at the Impact and I had hoped he'd stay in Europe longer).

 

 

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14 hours ago, Ansem said:

I second that.

During the US Golden years, that team didn't fear Mexico and weren't afraid to press their defense which got them the results.

Dont get me wrong, Mexico is a talented team but not being able to pass the round of 16 in WC shows a pattern. Euro teams aren't afraid of them so they press their defense and Mexico start making costly mistakes...but you need the tools to do that.

Canada now have such tools. We saw a hungry Osorio who looked like a pitbull looking to maul someone. Cavallini who was pure swag looked like this was just another Liga MX game, David who wanted to play fancy because hey...he's been in Europa and had Genk in his face all season long. Arfield who faced Liverpool, Both Manchester, Arsenal and Chelsea while now having to contain Celtic, he'sseen it and been there---done that. Davies now in Bundesliga. Borjan who stopped Liverpool in CL. We have the guys to press them and they dont fear Mexico and that's a 1st for the CanMNT. Hutchinson? He's faced tough foes.

 I think that's what those guys demonstrated at the 60th minute when the triple change happened which gave Cavallini & Davies reinforcements. They pressed that defense, forced them into mistakes but we have the talent to capitalize on it and had so many chances. We took it to them and that's the only way to beat them.

Looking back at the goals we conceded, the 1st one, we were down 1 guy temporarily, 2nd goal, we turned it over, 3rd goal, its was an own goal of the foot of Davies. We didn't capitalize on our chances except for that mistake when they turned it over.

Herdman and the A squad will have seen that, they can win. Mexico isn't invincible. Our defense needed to get tested the way they did because they were on CNL qualifiers mode and needed to be taken from the "normal" difficulty level to "hard". Like Herdman said, he saw a 19 & 21 year old survive out there against the best in CONCACAF. Quite frankly, I expected much worse. They are young, they will learn from this and adjust...they need to see that level more often.

Odds are still against us but we can do it. The way it went down last night could only have boosted their confidence and made them hungrier. 

Can't sit back back defending, we have to take it to them and with the quality midfield and forwards, we should be pressing them as much as possible and avoid parking the bus, they are counting on us doing that. Arfield & Osorio wont allow it, neither will Cavallini, Davies and David.

End of rant

 

I got the chills reading this, so exciting!

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2 hours ago, rightback said:

No complaints from me about anyone. That last 30 minutes was a blast...Herdman's a lucky boy to inherit that collection of players. We just need some improvements in defense but that may come with more experience.

I still think Piette's a fine destroyer and belongs on field in the next game we have against a strong opponent...I hope his development hasn't stalled since his move to MLS (I haven't had a chance to watch much of his play at the Impact and I had hoped he'd stay in Europe longer).

 

 

It’s not like Piette was playing at a high level when he was in Europe. Didn’t look like he was on the verge of playing at a higher level before he came to the MLS. So far he seems to be an every day starter on an average MLS team now. In my ideal starting 11 he doesn’t start, I would put Kay in that position .

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5 hours ago, SoccMan said:

It’s not like Piette was playing at a high level when he was in Europe. Didn’t look like he was on the verge of playing at a higher level before he came to the MLS. So far he seems to be an every day starter on an average MLS team now. In my ideal starting 11 he doesn’t start, I would put Kay in that position .

Feel like this is spot on.

I am a fan of Piette, I like his football IQ and I feel like he is a solid member of our National Team. But he plays an integral position where you have a lot of important touches and you need a lot of trust in a player playing as the #6. 

I still feel like he’s a little shaky with his decision-making and the thought of him playing against a pressing team like Mexican frightened me. 

My gut tells me that Kaye is the better choice at this very moment (behind Atiba).

 

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3 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

So you quoted me, deleted the part where I mentioned Jiménez and directed me to an article on Jiménez?

Alrighty then 😂

I have better things to do than to be on here quoting and correcting every last stupid thing you say, but since you insist:

 

On 6/20/2019 at 11:04 AM, CanadaFan123 said:

“I think as a measuring stick, we were able to see 21- and 19-year-old players with no experience against this type of opposition, and living there,” Canada manager John Herdman said postgame. “Living against their $35 million-dollar players. Tonight was real learning for those guys.”

Can anyone tell me where/who these $35 million dollar players were? 

Mexico is good but why do we have to exaggerate so much?  You would think we were playing Argentina.  

In fact, the two of the three most valuable players last night in terms of market value were both CANADIAN.  We need to get that though our heads and respect our opponents but not build them up.  According to transfermarket they had one guy worth anywhere near the number Herdman threw out - Raul Jimenez.

 

You asked me to point you towards "where these $35 million dollar players were?"   So I did.   Yeah, sure you mentioned Jimenez, but it's hard to give you much credit for it since you were waaaay off on his actual value.

I directed you towards a page that listed the price that Wolverhampton recently PAID for Jimenez.   Not a ball-park “market value” guess from some some guy on the internet.  When actual hard numbers are available it's silly to rely on transfermarket for that info.

 

You said  “According to transfermarket they had one guy worth anywhere near the number Herdman threw out - Raul Jimenez.”   

But Jimenez isn’t worth “anywhere near” the number Herdman threw out, he’s worth quite a bit more actually!   That Guardian article lists his price at $30 million pounds, and I've seen Portuguese media listing the price at $38 mill Euro's.   When you convert the money, that would put his value at either $50 or $57 million CAD, depending on which media outlet you go with.

 

The gist of what Herdman was saying was that some of these young guys learned a lot because they were swimming in deep international waters for their very first time.  If you are going to go nit-picking that statement, you should first make sure you know what you're talking about!

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1 hour ago, CanadaFan123 said:

“Here let me twist why I misquoted you” never change @Acid-Tone. Yep, I’m the stupid one for admitting Jiménez was the one guy and for you PURPOSELY deleting that portion.  That’s the funniest part, you went out of your way to misquote me and now you’re playing victim.

Do you really not understand what the word misquote means?

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34 minutes ago, Acid-Tone said:

Do you really not understand what the word misquote means?

No, I understand.  It’s: “quote (a person or a piece of written or spoken text) inaccurately.” And you purposely deleted a portion of my quote.  So, I don’t know what kind of alt-reality  you’re trying to create but stop. You’re trolling at this point.

Edited by CanadaFan123
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9 hours ago, CanadaFan123 said:

No, I understand.  It’s: “quote (a person or a piece of written or spoken text) inaccurately.” And you purposely deleted a portion of my quote.  So, I don’t know what kind of alt-reality  you’re trying to create but stop. You’re trolling at this point.

You probably need to take your own advice at this point.

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