Gold Cup - June 19th 2019 - Canada vs Mexico

[SthMelbRed]

1 minute ago, Hawkguy said:

Yeah. I am. Beat Mexico. Rest vs Cuba. Easy 1st round match. 

Now we have to beat Cuba. Unlikely we don't make it but you need to actually play now. 

And Costa Rica is far better then Haiti

You're surely not dumb enough to think that beating Mexico was anything but a longshot, no matter what 11 we put out today, are you? 

Balancing probability and risk vs reward, Herdman did the right thing in resting players today. Hutch and MAK definitely should rest against Cuba, and probably Phonz and Cornelius, too. That will have every member of the squad fresh enough going into the knockout rounds.

[Ansem]

6 minutes ago, The Beaver 2.0 said:

Herdman learned a lot about a lot of things tonight. As did the players. I am glad he made the second half changes and formation change. Doing so, along with what he learned in the first half, will help us make big improvements going forward. Experimenting here might seem ill-advised, but I cannot think of a better situation for doing what he did. The loss is beside the point. We will beat Cuba on Sunday. But now Herdman has a much clearer sense of his starting 11 for when we face Costa Rica, and knows the formation to employ. He also knows that he’s got to work doubly hard to sort out the back line, not so much for this tournament, but longer term. (Okay, yes, he’s got to find some way to get this back line through the tournament, but you get my point. One idea, super controversial round these parts: Davies at left back.) 

Mexico scored because of a couple of poor giveaways on our part. We had some stellar chances, buried one, and played some good football for 30 minutes.  And we know a few things we might not have known prior to this game: MAK over Piette. Cavallini over Larin. Arfield and Hutch and MAK in the midfield is dynamite. This team needs more games against good teams so guys like JBG and Davies and Millar can develop into better and better players. Borjan is even better than he was two years ago. We need to work hard to strengthen our options on the back line. (Cornelius and Henry were mostly good tonight, mind you.)

This was a bigger step forward tonight then we might currently appreciate. We will see if I am right over the next several games.

Dont forget Osorio!

[Yoginess]

5 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

Yeah. I am. Beat Mexico. Rest vs Cuba. Easy 1st round match. 

Now we have to beat Cuba. Unlikely we don't make it but you need to actually play now. 

And Costa Rica is far better then Haiti

You're the guy who goes all-in when he's dealt a pair of 5's on the first hand aren't you?

[Ansem]

7 minutes ago, Hawkguy said:

Yeah. I am. Beat Mexico. Rest vs Cuba. Easy 1st round match. 

Now we have to beat Cuba. Unlikely we don't make it but you need to actually play now. 

And Costa Rica is far better then Haiti

Easy 1st round match??? Costa Rica is the #2 in the region for a reason. If we can face them with a fresh squad, ilm take this loss resting my guys anyday...

[The Beaver 2.0]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Dont forget Osorio!

Totally agree! He looked great and was clearly undaunted by the Mexicans. Chalk it up, at least in part, to his CCL experience. He had two excellence attempts tonight

[Yoginess]

Just now, The Beaver 2.0 said:

Totally agree! He looked great and was clearly undaunted by the Mexicans. Chalk it up, at least in part, to his CCL experience. He had two excellence attempts tonight

I'm not the biggest Oso fan but other than Arfield, he was the one who looked the most comfortable out there. 

[Ansem]

11 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

You're surely not dumb enough to think that beating Mexico was anything but a longshot, no matter what 11 we put out today, are you? 

And in altitude!

People need to look up Mexico record at Azteca. They are used to altitude, we aren't.

I'd rather experiment in a game that won't affect my odds of advancing (Martinique will lose, a tie or even losing we'd advance) while allowing us to evaluate guys and expose the defense corps to prime offense. (CNL qualifiers was practice, they needed to experience this level of attack so they get used to it and adjust.)

You use the Cuba game to rest some guys and manage some of their minutes and show up fresh for KO stage. (While Costa Rica and Haiti goes all out to play us and avoid Mexico)

If we make the Semis, we'll face Mexico at sea level with a stronger squad who just proved to themselves that they can actually score and compete. NO FEAR from Osorio, Arfield, Cavallini, David (who tried to be fancy), Davies and Kaye. 

Why risk suspensions on yellows, red cards and injuries in a game you had little chance to win with an untested squad and burn yourself out? What does it do mentally to have your strongest squad getting soundly beat by Mexico going forward? Players are professionals, they dont care about altitude or psychology but that's management's job to account for the imponderable. 

We've been tested tonight and we've learned TONS tonight while the Mexicans we're visually not expecting us to turn it around after 3 subs. Despite the loss, I have to think that our A squad are HUNGRY for a rematch.

Haters will be haters but the as he would say

Tonight strategy was 

Edited June 20, 2019 by Ansem

[The Beaver 2.0]

MAK looked better and better too. I know this is not a popular sentiment, but I would seriously consider playing Davies at left back versus Costa Rica. (I would rest him against Cuba. He looked gassed tonight.) 

[BrennanFan]

I don't mind resting players against Mex, but if that's what you're gonna do then actually rest your best players. Those 3 subs one after another reeked of amateur hour, Herdman threw his plans out the window to make some sort of unnecessary statement.  

We can and should continue to rest players against Cuba. A CPL club could beat Cuba.  

ZBG was a disappointment going forward and defending. 

MAK is the real deal. Hutch still has speed in those old legs.

Overall, this was a meaningless game. Re,member this was a B- Mexico side, with their full line up, they would romp us.  

Our back line is not good enough at this level and Herdman's poor defense selections are our biggest obstacles in going far in this tournament. 

[SpursFlu]

I like the strategy.. I think we got in Mexico's head a bit tonight.. just a seed. Who cares about the result. I want to play Costa Rica anyhow

[Ansem]

5 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

I like the strategy.. I think we got in Mexico's head a bit tonight.. just a seed. Who cares about the result. I want to play Costa Rica anyhow

Before even entertaining beating Mexico, we have to prove we can beat Costa Rica and surpass them.

Honest question...Who's afraid of the USMNT now?

Edited June 20, 2019 by Ansem

[Yoginess]

3 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Before even entertaining beating Mexico, we have to prove we can beat Costa Rica and surpass them.

Honest question...Who's afraid of the USMNT now?

Legitimately can't wait to play them. I think Costa Rica is a clear step ahead of them right now (though Tyler Adams has turned into a much better player than I anticipated).

For nations league I think we can take 6 points off of Cuba and beat US at home.

[Admin]

I don't  expect to beat Mexico.  

What I really don't expect is to get out fucking numbered in a supporters bar in a major Canadian city against Mexico with a 7:30 kick off.

I brought more free shirts to give away than there were Canadians in the fucking bar.

What the goddamn fuck. 

 

[maplebanana]

42 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Before even entertaining beating Mexico, we have to prove we can beat Costa Rica and surpass them.

Honest question...Who's afraid of the USMNT now?

I know we have made progress in attacking (and probably regressed in defending), but we have so far proved nothing results-wise. Our highest quality result under Herdman was maybe a 1-0 win against New Zealand, and looking impressive beating up minnows.

Until we prove we can get results against actually decent teams, we shouldn't be assuming we can beat any of Mex/USA/CR. 

[Hawkguy]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

Easy 1st round match??? Costa Rica is the #2 in the region for a reason. If we can face them with a fresh squad, ilm take this loss resting my guys anyday...

They're #3. And that was the point of my post. To avoid them.

[Dominic94]

I think we all forget how young this team is for starters and how while we have depth, it’s really only in the midfield and at GK.

we don’t have a pool of CB’s and FB’s, and we only really have 2 strikers, we have to give it time and be patient. Any of those Mexican players would play for us and start I think, and they are close to the A team, that’s why they’re in the setup.

We have come a long way in a short time, but it’s going to take more time. The CB’s will emerge and there is more talent on the way, not to mention Estaquio who is young is joining the program, and he would probably start.

im happy with the result, let’s not expect the moon yet.

we forget that ZBG is still young, I think he has class but yea this is a higher level, it takes time and not everyone arrives at the same time.

 

 

[Ansem]

3 hours ago, Hawkguy said:

They're #3. And that was the point of my post. To avoid them.

As someone pointed earlier, result wise, The USMNT haven't proved they are #2

[Stryker911]

Prior to the game everyone would have been satisfied with a competitive 3-1 win, so no issues there. We also showed that our presumably first 11 can give them a really good run and have a good shot at getting a result if we meet later on.

It was actually unfortunate for us the Guitterrez got injured as his replacement was unreal. Also, all 3 of their goals were preventable so it's not like we got run over.

Every other team in this tournament would likely get the same result or worse. We look better than Panama, Jamaica, and Honduras. Im looking forward to a good game against Costa Rica as well as a couple games against the States. At this point all of those games are winnable for us.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Stryker911

[Lansdude]

5 hours ago, admin said:

I don't  expect to beat Mexico.  

What I really don't expect is to get out ******* numbered in a supporters bar in a major Canadian city against Mexico with a 7:30 kick off.

I brought more free shirts to give away than there were Canadians in the ******* bar.

What the goddamn ****. 

 

You must have been in one of the cities close to the Mexican border, like Windsor or Sarnia.

[Lansdude]

23 minutes ago, Stryker911 said:

Prior to the game everyone would have been satisfied with a competitive 3-1 win, so no issues there. We also showed that our presumably first 11 can give them a really good run and have a good shot at getting a result if we meet later on.

It was actually unfortunate for us the Guitterrez got injured as his replacement was unreal. Also, all 3 of their goals were preventable so it's not like we got run over.

Every other team in this tournament would likely get the same result or worse. We look better than Panama, Jamaica, and Honduras. Im looking forward to a good game against Costa Rica as well as a couple games against the States. At this point all of those games are winnable for us.

That was my pre-match prediction. I think what got everyone down was how anxious and out of our element we looked in the first half.

This match illustrated well that an eleven of our best, let's say B+ and A- players can compete with their A players, but our next best set of guys are Cs and theirs are still As. MLS squads have similar problems when they're competing in several competitions at once. So we were always going to have to be very careful managing our minutes in this compressed format and a tactically tepid performance was inevitable.

Long term, our program just needs to keep stocking the cupboards with superior players and I think the speed at which they're coming out of the woodwork will increase with the prestige of the program and the maturation of our professional teams.

Edited June 20, 2019 by Lansdude

[Ansem]

 

[BuzzAndSting]

8 hours ago, Yoginess said:

Calm down. No matter who we called up, who started, how we lined up.. It was always going to be a great challenge to beat Mexico. They're a top 15-20 footballing nation in the world. 

To put this in perspective Canada was +1300 for a win and Mexico was -450! Even a draw paid 8 to 1.

[costarg]

7 hours ago, Hawkguy said:

Yeah. I am. Beat Mexico. Rest vs Cuba. Easy 1st round match. 

Now we have to beat Cuba. Unlikely we don't make it but you need to actually play now. 

And Costa Rica is far better then Haiti

After last night, personally, i WANT to play Costa Rica.  This is the first tournament we come to feeling good about ourselves and don't need to hope for an easy draw to get far.  Lets enjoy it!  Even if we lose, we're young, we'll come back stronger. 

[Alex]

2 minutes ago, costarg said:

After last night, personally, i WANT to play Costa Rica.  This is the first tournament we come to feeling good about ourselves and don't need to hope for an easy draw to get far.  Lets enjoy it!  Even if we lose, we're young, we'll come back stronger. 

In 2017 we weren’t as good as now and played well against them, so yes I echo your sentiments! 

[CanadaFan123]

Anyone know the extent of the Mexican injuries? They are seriously running low on players and even replacements at this point. If I was Tata last night would worry me in more ways than one.