Gold Cup - June 19th 2019 - Canada vs Mexico

[Lansdude]

31 minutes ago, CanadaFan123 said:

Anyone know the extent of the Mexican injuries? They are seriously running low on players and even replacements at this point. If I was Tata last night would worry me in more ways than one.

Who's injured besides Gutierrez?

[Addona]

I think resting the A squad was the right call, even if it was hard to watch our B squad and wonder what the full A squad could have done. What's not mentioned is that even a draw vs. Mexico last night would have almost surely led to a 2nd place finish in the group. Given that we would have needed an outright win convinces me that resting was the correct call.

What I'd like to see vs. Cuba is:

Borjan

Godinho - Henry - Cornelius - Morgan

Arfield - Piette - Osorio

Hoilett - David - Davies

Subs:  Millar for Davies around the 60th (if game is comfortable), Cav for David, and 3rd sub depends on game situation.

* Godinho because he's fresh, and showed a little better, albeit against weaker competition

* Morgan because Kaye is on a yellow and I don't want to risk losing him for the QF

* Cornelius desperately needs a rest, but hopefully can go, and may not have as much work to do. Also, we don't really have another great option at CB ... not sure if Miller can be trusted in a match of this magnitude.  Unfortunately, Hutch is the only other field player who has gone all 180, otherwise, I'd swap out Cornelius for Hutch. But for now, I'd rather rest Hutch for the QF, and we should still be able to beat Cuba without him. Not having one more quality CB (like James) is the pretty clearly our biggest weakness right now.

[Ansem]

Herdman press conference. 

 

[Dominic94]

I wanna see Okello get in a game..

Our midfield depth is only going to get better, guys like Verhoeven, Fraser, Choniere, Collyn, Habibulah, Okello are are fairly touted at the least.

as pointed out, we only have so many A players ATM, but more are coming.

 

[RS]

7 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

I don't mind resting players against Mex, but if that's what you're gonna do then actually rest your best players. Those 3 subs one after another reeked of amateur hour, Herdman threw his plans out the window to make some sort of unnecessary statement.  

Nah. It's fairly obvious from when the subs came on that this was Herdman's plan all along. Someone in this thread even predicted exactly how the subs would unfold, and why (I'm too lazy to go back and look for the post).

Whether it was the right plan is debatable, but to me it was clear that Herdman did exactly what he had planned on doing. The unfortunate thing was how the Mexico goals were scored, which can't really be planned for. 

[Mikmacdo]

I would rest henry, hutch, davies and borjan vs cuba. Start miller, millar, max and okello. This cuba team is awful a cpl team would likeky dominate them. 

[narduch]

I would play Henry against Cuba to help him get back into match shape.

Besides if the game goes to plan he shouldn't have much to do anyways.

[VinceA]

 

[Floortom]

I would rest MAk, Davies, Hutch and Cornelius for sure - they played all 90 minutes on our first two matches and we will need those guys versus Costa Rica.

cuba was dominated by Martinique. We should be able to send any 11 out there and get a victory (let alone the draw we need to advance).

[Floortom]

1 minute ago, VinceA said:

 

In the pregame on TSN, Herdman was interviewed and said that the current squad (vs last gold cup) has a better player pool and a stronger coach lol Zambrano probably saw that and took offence 

[Corazon]

1 minute ago, Floortom said:

In the pregame on TSN, Herdman was interviewed and said that the current squad (vs last gold cup) has a better player pool and a stronger coach lol Zambrano probably saw that and took offence 

"If they thought they could powerpoint their way through it, think again". 🤣

[gator]

Hopefully we get another shot at Mexico with a different game plan, there is hope as we saw in the last part of this match, also as it has been said, all 3 goals were very preventable, you have to limit mistakes against an opponent like this or you will be punished as we were! On another day Davies finishes his chance that just missed the post, Osorio also came very close, let's get by the Ticos and have another go at these guys!

[gator]

9 minutes ago, Floortom said:

In the pregame on TSN, Herdman was interviewed and said that the current squad (vs last gold cup) has a better player pool and a stronger coach lol Zambrano probably saw that and took offence 

I didn't mind him having a pop at the guy he was fired for, it's fair game and Herdman has a lot to do to convince some of us on here he is the guy for the job, this was his first real test and it remains to be seen if his plan will pay dividends moving forward!

[nolbertos]

Well thats 1 strike for me against Herdman.  He failed the Mexico test, even Benito Floro would’ve grinded a 0-0 result.  Herdman is being judged by me on the Hex competition, not Pre-Hex round where we always end up.  If as expected we beat Cuba, then Costa Rica QF match, then that’s Test No. 2.  If we botch that up, then Herdman is in a worse place than Zambrano, because he has more young upcoming talent at his disposal compared to what Floro and Zambrano had.  This Gold Cup is telling us so far that we only have 5-6 calibre starters, the rest are hope for the best.

[CanadaFan123]

36 minutes ago, Floortom said:

In the pregame on TSN, Herdman was interviewed and said that the current squad (vs last gold cup) has a better player pool and a stronger coach lol Zambrano probably saw that and took offence 

I thought he said that as well but he actually said “culture” and not “coach” but I suppose the deeper meaning is the same. 

I wish TSN wasn’t so naive to football.. they should have OZ in studio and a headline that says “FURY OF OZ: EX-CANADA BOSS SOUNDS OFF ON TACTICS AFTER MEXICO LOSS”

Being a football country is right at our doorstep but our media is too incompetent to realize how to harness it.

Cant be too upset at the loss or care what OZ thinks.  This was house money we were playing with.  It means almost nothing.  The Mexicans can be happy they didn’t trip up and feel confident for next time and then we can throw everything at them with higher stakes.

Honestly, Mexico is not a hugely impressive team that is a level above our best XI.  Our best on their best - let’s go, I back our guys.

Edited June 20, 2019 by CanadaFan123

[Obinna]

4 minutes ago, nolbertos said:

Well thats 1 strike for me against Herdman.  He failed the Mexico test, even Benito Floro would’ve grinded a 0-0 result.  Herdman is being judged by me on the Hex competition, not Pre-Hex round where we always end up.  If as expected we beat Cuba, then Costa Rica QF match, then that’s Test No. 2.  If we botch that up, then Herdman is in a worse place than Zambrano, because he has more young upcoming talent at his disposal compared to what Floro and Zambrano had.  This Gold Cup is telling us so far that we only have 5-6 calibre starters, the rest are hope for the best.

Trust me, if Floro could have grinded his way to a 0-0 result against Mexico, he would have done so. He had two chances and lost by a combined score of 5-0.

This was neither pass or fail, it was experimentation. Whether this was the right time to do so is up for debate, but I was fine with it.

[hamiltonfan]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Trust me, if Floro could have grinded his way to a 0-0 result against Mexico, he would have done so. He had two chances and lost by a combined score of 5-0.

This was neither pass or fail, it was experimentation. Whether this was the right time to do so is up for debate, but I was fine with it.

Tactics were wrong (horrible for first 60min), player selection was wrong. 

Bigger picture is clear but would have like to put a better foot forward for this match. 

 

 

[The Beaver 2.0]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Trust me, if Floro could have grinded his way to a 0-0 result against Mexico, he would have done so. He had two chances and lost by a combined score of 5-0.

This was neither pass or fail, it was experimentation. Whether this was the right time to do so is up for debate, but I was fine with it.

Still not sold on Herdman, but I give him props for his strategic approach to developing this team, especially in how he handled squad rotation and tactics last night. I think he got it mostly right from a strategic perspective. Only time will tell, of course, but I strongly suspect that last night's experimentation and challenge against a very tough opponent will advance our program more significantly than any other thing that has happened since Herdman took the reins. For once we have a truly strategic manager, which should bode well for us over the next several years. Herdman, much like MDS, are process-driven dudes. They are all about constant growth, constant learning, constant improvement. I still question whether he has the tactical chops, but he is a quick learner and has surrounded himself with some decent football minds. We need to be patient. This was the first real test we've had, and we learned a ton!! We need to focus on Cuba, rest some guys, then get prepared for (likely) Costa Rica.  I am excited to see how we carry all this learning and growing confidence into that QF match. That will be the next real test. 

[Obinna]

8 minutes ago, hamiltonfan said:

Tactics were wrong (horrible for first 60min), player selection was wrong. 

Bigger picture is clear but would have like to put a better foot forward for this match. 

 

 

I would argue that Herdman achieved exactly what he wanted, which was to rotate the squad and keep the game within reach until he could bring on some of our big guns.

I was impressed by the discipline, fitness and commitment of our guys to keep the defensive shape in the first half. That said, I think KJ was right in that Larin left ZBG with a lot to do defensively. I doubt we will see Larin in this role much in the future.

[longlugan]

11 hours ago, spitfire said:

Troll much?!?

You want to play your best 11 in a group game against top level opponent for what purpose to feel good that we can!? I would much rather beat them in the semis when it matters...

and im a football genius .... 

nice goal...

How is he trolling? You've made so many ridiculous statements but he's the one trolling? 

[lazlo_80]

I wasn't sure about Osorio after the first game but man did he ever put in a great shift.

Also I don't think it's a coincidence that the two guys most familiar with playing in Mexico (Oso and Cav) were two of our best players. Exposure to these leagues and players goes a long way.

[Ansem]

47 minutes ago, nolbertos said:

even Benito Floro would’ve grinded a 0-0 result

He would have failed. You make it sounds so easy...

Seriously, if there are things to take away from this experiment is that you dont sit down defending because they eventually break your defense 

The other thing is that if you press their defense, they prove vulnerable and make mistakes to exploit.

Lesson is, you got to take it to them, not park the bus

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by Ansem

[apbsmith]

1 hour ago, VinceA said:

 

Cheeky line, but I'm still going to save my judgement on Herdman until the end of the tournament.

OZ was a stepping stone but he was not our savior by any means.

OZ had us playing attractive footy,  helped springboard Cav's & MAK's club career and got us out of a tough Gold Cup group stage.

What I do remember from a critical standpoint about 2017 Gold Cup though Re:OZ

1) Honduras & CRC were 100% more focused on WCQ in 2017, as admirable as the two ties in groupt stage were, Honduras barely cared about the 2017 Gold Cup (at least in my eyes).

2) Half our team looked absolutely gassed in the QFs against Jamaica, felt only Hoilett  showed up.

3) OZ made a massive error by starting Vitoria and Jakovic at CB vs Jamaica's speed before subbing in James after both goals, especially since both were already fatigued after the group stage. His decision starting those two lack of pace CB's ultimately costs us the match, especially with Jamaica scoring 5 mins in. When James came in, in the 2nd half, I don't think Jamaica had another shot or counter.

I'll save my judgment regarding Herdman until after the tourny is done.

 

 

[longlugan]

11 hours ago, spitfire said:

Again clueless ever heard of sarcasm?

Seriously let’s give Lofty the national team job!!!!

he’d do Soo much better.

I love these armchair never actually coached or played at any level thinking fans they know more then people who get paid to do the job...

i have an UEFA A license played professionally and coached professionally and I dont pretend to know have as much as you do...I’m done 

Glad you're finally done because you've been spewing some serious nonsense and I don't have an UEFA A license nor have I coached or played professionally(well not soccer anyways) but I can see what Herdman is doing. You and everyone that thinks a result here and now against  Mexico is more important than the long term goals of this squad are just laughable.

[CanadaFan123]

“I think as a measuring stick, we were able to see 21- and 19-year-old players with no experience against this type of opposition, and living there,” Canada manager John Herdman said postgame. “Living against their $35 million-dollar players. Tonight was real learning for those guys.”

Can anyone tell me where/who these $35 million dollar players were? 

Mexico is good but why do we have to exaggerate so much?  You would think we were playing Argentina.  

In fact, the two of the three most valuable players last night in terms of market value were both CANADIAN.  We need to get that though our heads and respect our opponents but not build them up.  According to transfermarket they had one guy worth anywhere near the number Herdman threw out - Raul Jimenez.