The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[SkuseisLoose]

It's not the league that developed him it's the team you wouldn't say that the premier league developed rashford you'd say that Man U did. It's not a thing of screw MLS, it's a thing of giving credit where credit is due which is the Whitecaps.

[Blackdude]

2 hours ago, SkuseisLoose said:

It's not the league that developed him it's the team you wouldn't say that the premier league developed rashford you'd say that Man U did. It's not a thing of screw MLS, it's a thing of giving credit where credit is due which is the Whitecaps.

Yeah, but would the Whitecaps have developed Davies without MLS? I don't think he would have been in Vancouver that young if it wasn't for MLS. Randy Edwini-Bonsu joined the residency at 18 and he had U17 caps. Davies got in at 14 and had zero caps (sure not eligible for the national team then, but still). If you want to use Teibert who got in at 15, but was already with TFC Academy and had youth caps, go for it.

I still think that if it wasn'T MLS, I'm not sure the Whitecaps would have invested as many years developing him. (Then again, a lot has changed, because players could go to Europe then)

Edited January 1, 2019 by Blackdude

[Grizzly]

2 hours ago, SkuseisLoose said:

It's not the league that developed him it's the team you wouldn't say that the premier league developed rashford you'd say that Man U did. It's not a thing of screw MLS, it's a thing of giving credit where credit is due which is the Whitecaps.

Both the Caps and the league deserve credit. He developed to where he was by playing with and against good MLS players. If it was only the Caps coaching that developed him do you seriously think he would be where he is today if he had just played for the Caps top youth teams? Saying that MLS deserves a good deal of credit for his development does not take away from the good deal of credit the Caps deserve for his development.

[Grizzly]

It is also interesting to note that our other great prospect Tabla followed a completely different path to Davies. Instead of establishing himself in MLS in a season where he had a lot of opportunity on a weak Impact team, he agitated for a move to Europe which he did achieve though at the expense of not playing a lot more minutes with the Impact. He has been at Barca for a year and a half now and seems to have progressed less than Davies and to be further from first team football. It is a very small sample size and there are always many differences between players one can point to and we do not know who will end up the better player in the end but the evidence so far does not support that playing in a European academy or B team is better than playing and getting first team football in MLS. 

[BearcatSA]

I'll give Robbo credit in the second of 2017 of controlling Davies' minutes and starts when he wasn't playing particularly well.  I think he needed to sit and earn back a regular starting place instead of getting it gifted to him based on that Gold Cup breakout.

The question I have for those out there is this:  would another year (or even two) of MLS been even more beneficial to him or has he left the league (I'm not talking about the Whitecaps on rebuild here, just the league in general) at the right time?

[Obinna]

31 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

It is also interesting to note that our other great prospect Tabla followed a completely different path to Davies. Instead of establishing himself in MLS in a season where he had a lot of opportunity on a weak Impact team, he agitated for a move to Europe which he did achieve though at the expense of not playing a lot more minutes with the Impact. He has been at Barca for a year and a half now and seems to have progressed less than Davies and to be further from first team football. It is a very small sample size and there are always many differences between players one can point to and we do not know who will end up the better player in the end but the evidence so far does not support that playing in a European academy or B team is better than playing and getting first team football in MLS. 

I always felt that Tabla was the better prospect, so this really resonates with me. For sure, it's an incredibly small sample size, but perhaps there's some sort of psychological advantage to playing with a first team, even if that first team is at a much lower level in MLS.

[Norrin Radd]

I think it was the right time for Davies to move on to a bigger league. He’ll need to be more consistent before he can become a regular for Bayern but he was dominant against MLS defenders and he's ready to be challenged at a higher level.

[Bertuzzi44]

1 hour ago, Grizzly said:

It is also interesting to note that our other great prospect Tabla followed a completely different path to Davies. Instead of establishing himself in MLS in a season where he had a lot of opportunity on a weak Impact team, he agitated for a move to Europe which he did achieve though at the expense of not playing a lot more minutes with the Impact.

...and because of this, the transfer fee was not that big, correct? Does anyone know what Barca ended up paying for Tabla?

Davies on the other hand became a star in MLS and ended up commanding a decently large transfer fee. I feel like the larger the fee, the bigger the investment a player's new team has in him, and motivation for him to succeed. 

 

[BradMack]

29 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44 said:

...and because of this, the transfer fee was not that big, correct? Does anyone know what Barca ended up paying for Tabla?

Davies on the other hand became a star in MLS and ended up commanding a decently large transfer fee. I feel like the larger the fee, the bigger the investment a player's new team has in him, and motivation for him to succeed. 

 

I believe it was a cool million bucks.

[BenFisk'sBiggestFan]

Davies’ agent dropping hints about seeing playing time quite soon. Says he has heard rumblings that we might see Davies sooner than expected. No clue what that means though. My source is a Global news video.

[SthMelbRed]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/03/callum-hudson-odoi-chelsea-bayern-munich-bid

Bayern looking to double down on the hot-shot, teenage winger front...

If this goes through, they'll be looking at Gnabry (23), Coman (22), Davies (18), and Hudson-Odoi (18) competing for the attacking wing places next season.

Fun fact...Callum Hudson-Odoi is 5 days younger than the Phonz, and, if we're to believe the above-linked story, Bayern are willing to pay 2-3 times the amount that they paid for Davies for him.

[Obinna]

37 minutes ago, SthMelbRed said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/03/callum-hudson-odoi-chelsea-bayern-munich-bid

Bayern looking to double down on the hot-shot, teenage winger front...

If this goes through, they'll be looking at Gnabry (23), Coman (22), Davies (18), and Hudson-Odoi (18) competing for the attacking wing places next season.

Fun fact...Callum Hudson-Odoi is 5 days younger than the Phonz, and, if we're to believe the above-linked story, Bayern are willing to pay 2-3 times the amount that they paid for Davies for him.

Not sure whether to believe the rumors or not, but assuming the interest is genuine, perhaps the success of young Brits in the Bundesliga this season explains it, namely, Sancho (Dortmund) and Nelson (Hoffenheim). The latter though, is on loan, so you'd think they'd opt for a similar arrangement, but with Robben and Ribery aging, they are in buying mode.

[SthMelbRed]

55 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Not sure whether to believe the rumors or not, but assuming the interest is genuine, perhaps the success of young Brits in the Bundesliga this season explains it, namely, Sancho (Dortmund) and Nelson (Hoffenheim). The latter though, is on loan, so you'd think they'd opt for a similar arrangement, but with Robben and Ribery aging, they are in buying mode.

Moenchengladbach were in hard for Rhian Brewster early last year, and Leipzig had Lookman on loan from Everton last season and badly wanted to keep him permanently, too. The Germans are crazy for young, English talent these days.

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, SthMelbRed said:

Moenchengladbach were in hard for Rhian Brewster early last year, and Leipzig had Lookman on loan from Everton last season and badly wanted to keep him permanently, too. The Germans are crazy for young, English talent these days.

Yes they are. It's understandable. And hey, if Phonzy kills it at Bayern, perhaps we'll see Liam Millar next

[Copes]

6 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jan/03/callum-hudson-odoi-chelsea-bayern-munich-bid

Bayern looking to double down on the hot-shot, teenage winger front...

If this goes through, they'll be looking at Gnabry (23), Coman (22), Davies (18), and Hudson-Odoi (18) competing for the attacking wing places next season.

Fun fact...Callum Hudson-Odoi is 5 days younger than the Phonz, and, if we're to believe the above-linked story, Bayern are willing to pay 2-3 times the amount that they paid for Davies for him.

Could this be a negative for Davies? I believe Hudson-Odoi also plays forward - could Bayern be looking at him as Striker depth given how hot they seem for Davies? It would strike me as odd to bring in two highly-touted 18 year olds for the same position during the same transfer window. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 1/2/2019 at 7:22 AM, BradMack said:

I believe it was a cool million bucks.

It was just speculation, but I think they said over a million. Maybe it was a million euros. 

I think I also read he has a high buyout clause, like 25 million, as in Spain that is a specific law, you have to be able to buy out of a contract and walk. 

[kohanz]

2 hours ago, Copes said:

Could this be a negative for Davies? I believe Hudson-Odoi also plays forward - could Bayern be looking at him as Striker depth given how hot they seem for Davies? It would strike me as odd to bring in two highly-touted 18 year olds for the same position during the same transfer window. 

Can't Davies play on either wing? Also it doesn't seem too odd if you consider that many 18 year old starlets do not pan out.

[dyslexic nam]

The reality is that a team like Bayern is never going to bet all their chips on a single prospect.  They will build depth at all positions and rely on competition and talent to make sure they have quality at all positions.  As much as we are all hoping Davies lights up the Bundesliga very soon, the reality is that his transfer was just the start of his real battle - not the end of it.  

Of course Bayern are going to sign other talented forwards, and of course they are going to Challenge the Phonz for time on the first team and on the pitch.  I wouldn't expect anything less.  And to be honest, I wouldn't want anything different.  It is that kind of constant pressure that will force him to work like hell and maximize his full potential.  

[C2SKI]

Davies as Left-Back cover

[SkuseisLoose]

1 hour ago, C2SKI said:

Davies as Left-Back cover

No thank you. While it is entirely possible for him to be utilized there. It is clearly not his best position and he is considerably more useful for the team when he is getting forward.

[El Diego]

I don't know how long Bayern have been in on Hudson-Odoi, but Chelsea just signed Pulisic and foreign teams are starting to poach kids from English clubs. Plus, Hudson-Odoi is a mega talent who has been on the radar for a while considering his age. So while I wouldn't say it's good for Davies that Bayern are looking to sign another young attacker, I wouldn't say it's exactly surprising.

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 1/2/2019 at 5:41 AM, Grizzly said:

It is also interesting to note that our other great prospect Tabla followed a completely different path to Davies. Instead of establishing himself in MLS in a season where he had a lot of opportunity on a weak Impact team, he agitated for a move to Europe which he did achieve though at the expense of not playing a lot more minutes with the Impact. He has been at Barca for a year and a half now and seems to have progressed less than Davies and to be further from first team football. It is a very small sample size and there are always many differences between players one can point to and we do not know who will end up the better player in the end but the evidence so far does not support that playing in a European academy or B team is better than playing and getting first team football in MLS. 

He won Youth League last year, while getting minutes in Spanish 2nd division. He's trained with the first team. Objectively, he is at a better developmental level than Liam Millar, or at least similar, and has played at a higher level than Millar and at least equivalent to Davies (just look at Spanish 2nd D rivals, many were powerhouses).

The question of progress will have to be seen at the end of the season, as I see it. Or in relation to a possible call-up to the first team for the Cup this month, depending on how you judge this.

You think that judging Davies' development on the basis of him playing in MLS and so far only training with Bayern is a more reliable parameter  

[An Observer]

Davies is with the first team and by all indications he will get some action soon; and Tabla is with the reserves and has been there for a year and half without a sniff of first team action; Davies is also a year younger; Bayern also paid $27m for him, whereas Barca only played $1m.  At this stage, all indications are in favour of Davies’s development (although I admit I always rated Tabla higher when they played youth level together). 

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, An Observer said:

Davies is with the first team and by all indications he will get some action soon; and Tabla is with the reserves and has been there for a year and half without a sniff of first team action; Davies is also a year younger; Bayern also paid $27m for him, whereas Barca only played $1m.  At this stage, all indications are in favour of Davies’s development (although I admit I always rated Tabla higher when they played youth level together). 

You can't just make things up on the basis of no data at all, Davies probably has a higher upside than Tabla, but as we sit, he still has yet to play a single match in Europe. How about waiting for something to actually happen before getting excited.

First, Tabla was signed less than a year ago, try to be a bit serious. 

Davies has trained with Bayern's first team, but has played no games with them, not even with the reserves. So that is objectively not as good as training AND playing.

Tabla has trained with the first team, and has played with the B when it was in Spanish 2nd division, against some teams that are powerhouses. He was called up for a Cup match last spring, did not get minutes. His teammates have been brought into the first team and have played, so he is in the group with possibilities. He may even get a bite next week in the Cup.

You have also conveniently ignored the fact that the players in front of him at Barça, as attackers playing from the side, are Messi and Dembele.

I mean, get excited about Davies (I've likely seen him more than most here) but being right in hypothetical and on paper terms is not very reliable.

Edited January 4, 2019 by Unnamed Trialist

[SpursFlu]

Lots of Canadian insecurity bubbling up here. Bayern will sign players and Davies will be a star