The Importance of Alphonso Davies

[1996]

The only thing that concerns me about Davies and the national team is the fact against these minnows Herman has him playing as a left back which means against the likes of Costa Rica and Honduras he will definitely play there , I mean if you have him playing against these pub teams at left back and not having faith to play another player at that position who is more suited to play there, then against the real national teams in CONCACAF I’m pretty sure Herdman will most likely leave him there, which is a waste of his talent and his effectiveness for Canada on the field.

[baulderdash77]

It will be fine as long as he ends up having a career like Paulo Maldini.  Then we can all be happy right?

[Keegan]

17 minutes ago, 1996 said:

The only thing that concerns me about Davies and the national team is the fact against these minnows Herman has him playing as a left back which means against the likes of Costa Rica and Honduras he will definitely play there , I mean if you have him playing against these pub teams at left back and not having faith to play another player at that position who is more suited to play there, then against the real national teams in CONCACAF I’m pretty sure Herdman will most likely leave him there, which is a waste of his talent and his effectiveness for Canada on the field.

That’s not the thought process here.  Against those teams I think it’s safe to say Davies will not be at left back.  Herdman is using him there against minnows to overload his wing.  

Hes there because we can get away with it now but against those teams Herdman will likely revert to a true fullback. 

[Obinna]

2 minutes ago, Keegan said:

That’s not the thought process here.  Against those teams I think it’s safe to say Davies will not be at left back.  Herdman is using him there against minnows to overload his wing.  

Hes there because we can get away with it now but against those teams Herdman will likely revert to a true fullback. 

I hope it was just Herdman wanted to evaluate David and Tabla as much as possible, but I fear @1996is right.

[baulderdash77]

If everything works out perfectly then Tabla and Davies become the core of a golden generation and run the left side for a decade.

I’m sure that’s what Herdman is looking for.  The possibility of these 2 becoming a dominate fixture is too tempting not to develop.  It’s what can propel us to have something special.

[jpg75]

13 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said:

It will be fine as long as he ends up having a career like Paulo Maldini.  Then we can all be happy right?

Or Roberto Carlos. Still, i'd rather he turn into a ridiculously gifted scoring winger.

[baulderdash77]

I’d take Roberto Carlos as a “floor” if he can’t be Paulo Maldini.  Neither would disappoint me ?

 

Edit* awesome seguay into a debate of the greatest LB of all time.

Edited November 25, 2018 by baulderdash77

[Aird25]

Going forward I’m guessing he’ll be played in whatever position he ends up playing with Bayern. It would be bold of Herdman to do otherwise 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Aird25

[Keegan]

4 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Going forward I’m guessing he’ll be played in whatever position he ends up playing with Bayern. It would be bold of Herdman to do otherwise 

How so?  It happens all the time for us and for other smaller nations with players at big clubs.  I.e. Alaba with Bayern 

I think Phonzie can control the game best from left wing and that’s where he should play.  When he was getting forward late in the match last Sunday he was more comfortable than any other player on the night. 

[Obinna]

59 minutes ago, Keegan said:

How so?  It happens all the time for us and for other smaller nations with players at big clubs.  I.e. Alaba with Bayern 

I think Phonzie can control the game best from left wing and that’s where he should play.  When he was getting forward late in the match last Sunday he was more comfortable than any other player on the night. 

But Alaba is a centre midfielder for Austria. He is only a LB for Bayern because they shoehorned him there early on and he was able to do the job.

With Canada, we are likely to see the reverse. John Herdman shoehorning Davies into LB because he can do the job.

I say reverse because Canada are definitely not Bayern. You'd expect star national team players (Alaba, Davies) to play in an advanced or important role for their national team, and play out of position if that's what it takes to get on the field with a mega club. 

Instead, I fully expect Davies to play in an attacking wide midfield role for Bayern, while playing left back for Canada, of all  countries. 

Edited November 25, 2018 by Obinna

[C2SKI]

41 minutes ago, Keegan said:

How so?  It happens all the time for us and for other smaller nations with players at big clubs.  I.e. Alaba with Bayern 

I think Phonzie can control the game best from left wing and that’s where he should play.  When he was getting forward late in the match last Sunday he was more comfortable than any other player on the night. 

I imagine the vast majority in Canada would assume that Bayern got it right and Canada got it wrong. We have no faith in ourselves. Herdman would be sticking his neck out to play Davies 'out of position'.

I would personally like to see Davies played further forward with the national team. He does have all the attributes of an attacking fullback, but we've seen glimpses to suggest he's clever enough in front of goal to make it at a high level up front.

Edited November 25, 2018 by C2SKI

[BearcatSA]

In the modern game, some of the tactical lines have become pretty blurred between LW and LB and Bayern will have to figure out how this new 18 year old will fit in.  I just hope they don't turn him into a defensive holding mid, but you never know what their brain trust might decide.

I haven't seen any of these CNL matches but the fact that he's starting there tells me as much about what Herdman thinks of the other LB candidates available as it does about Herdman's opinions about Davies' tactical skillset/versatility.

[Unnamed Trialist]

There is no basis to say he is a left-side player, rather than right side. He has been more deadly from the right, turning in. His assists are not the most valuable part of his game. I think he'll show on the right for Bayern, but might well appear on both sides. He may be in the midfield, or a wing. 

Tabla is the same, not in terms of speed, but in terms of side: both, depending on what you want, are right for him. 

[BearcatSA]

44 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

There is no basis to say he is a left-side player, rather than right side. He has been more deadly from the right, turning in. His assists are not the most valuable part of his game. I think he'll show on the right for Bayern, but might well appear on both sides. He may be in the midfield, or a wing. 

Tabla is the same, not in terms of speed, but in terms of side: both, depending on what you want, are right for him. 

Definitely agree about Davies being used on the right side.  He's shown that he can cut in from the right and shoot with great effect.  Robben is a guy he can watch and learn from in training because he's been a great inverted winger over the course of his career.  Like I said, Bayern will be doing a lot of analysis to figure out where he'll fit in.

[Keegan]

17 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

There is no basis to say he is a left-side player, rather than right side. He has been more deadly from the right, turning in. His assists are not the most valuable part of his game. I think he'll show on the right for Bayern, but might well appear on both sides. He may be in the midfield, or a wing. 

Tabla is the same, not in terms of speed, but in terms of side: both, depending on what you want, are right for him. 

Very true.. I feel like if you’re a winger that can’t play both sides it’s a big disadvantage to your manager/team.  We haven’t really seen Phonzie on the right for Canada have we?  Which is odd considering Hoilett is more suited to playing LW anyhow.  

[El Diego]

To think that it is possible that a player would be used as an attacker by Bayern and a defender by Canada is absolutely mind boggling

[SpursFlu]

Playing phonzie at LB is a testament to his skill set.  He can kinda do it all. Its not ideal but its about fielding the best 11 and maybe getting people cap tied and in to the system now. You can re assess players as they develop. Especially when your playing a team sitting deep its good have attacking full backs because you get on the ball easily with time and space. Also with all that space behind you the speed help snuff out counter attacks. Thediscussion is healthy but i think people are making too much of it. Things can easily change and different situations dictates different formations

Edited November 26, 2018 by SpursFlu

[Kent]

My hope is that Davies at LB was done to give more opportunity to see what other attackers could do.

It's early on, but it seems clear that at the moment having Davies higher up the field and forcing Tabla to the bench is a sizable upgrade. And playing Davies at LB seems to basically neuter our most potent attacker.

No hate intended towards Tabla or Davies' competency at LB, but I think we will be a better team with Davies further up the pitch.

[dyslexic nam]

I will say that Davies at LB has probably helped him polish the defensive side of his game - which is a good thing even if he is on the wings going forward.  A guy like Robben is a pretty pure attacker, and while I haven't seen a ton of his games, he def seems to have a sole focus on attack when I have watched him.  I think training a bit more defensive awareness  into Davies won't hurt him at all.

Edited November 26, 2018 by dyslexic nam

[SpursFlu]

I totally agree. When we play Mexico in the Gold Cup final i doubt you see Davies at LB. But if we need a goal you may see Tabla come on in an advance role and us go to 3 at the back with Davies covering the ledt side. Who knows but we need a solid LB.  Im curious to see Adekugbe because when was with the Caps his defensive positioning was always a question mark.

Edited November 26, 2018 by SpursFlu

[Obinna]

1 hour ago, SpursFlu said:

I totally agree. When we play Mexico in the Gold Cup final i doubt you see Davies at LB. But if we need a goal you may see Tabla come on in an advance role and us go to 3 at the back with Davies covering the ledt side. Who knows but we need a solid LB.  Im curious to see Adekugbe because when was with the Caps his defensive positioning was always a question mark.

I thought about this scenario, but then I thought, if we need a goal, isn't it best to have Davies further forward?

The whole reason we are against him as a LB is because we are assuming our overall attacking output is better with him as an attacker. If that assumption is correct, why would we shift him back to LB when a goal is needed late in a game? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

[Obinna]

It's a shame that our best young attackers are wide players.

Davies, Tabla, David and Millar.

The latter two can play at CF, but we already have two good CF already.

It's a good problem to have, but it is a problem nonetheless and I don't think Davies at LB is the best solution.

I can live with special circumstances, like having Davies shut down Lozano or Pulisic, but aside from that, I just think we lose too much by shackling Davies.

It's an easy solution if you're trying to keep Millar, David and Tabla happy though. Maybe that's Herdman's angle....

[SpursFlu]

Sure but its all about communication and understanding in that if the opportunity comes up people need to cover for each other. You can only stand as far up the field as the other team allows you to. If you have 3 at the back and he's on the wing and just say Tabla is out wide in front 3 and your pressing and the other team is deep. Your definitely far enough up the field to make things happen and score

 

If i really evaluate the 2. Davies is an absolute monster when he has a couple of paces to run at people. Good luck to the defender

 

Tabla when he has time kinda slows it down to the point where everyone is just watching him. He's better off in tight with quick reactions and quick touches 

 

So im saying in a 3 4 3 your better off pushing Tabla in to the crowd and using Davies to run at the defensive block and break down lines and structures

Edited November 26, 2018 by SpursFlu

[Obinna]

16 minutes ago, SpursFlu said:

Sure but its all about communication and understanding in that if the opportunity comes up people need to cover for each other. You can only stand as far up the field as the other team allows you to. If you have 3 at the back and he's on the wing and just say Tabla is out wide in front 3 and your pressing and the other team is deep. Your definitely far enough up the field to make things happen and score

 

If i really evaluate the 2. Davies is an absolute monster when he has a couple of paces to run at people. Good luck to the defender

 

Tabla when he has time kinda slows it down to the point where everyone is just watching him. He's better off in tight with quick reactions and quick touches 

 

So im saying in a 3 4 3 your better off pushing Tabla in to the crowd and using Davies to run at the defensive block and break down lines and structures

This is why Tabla should be tried in a CAM position imo:

--------------------Cavallini-----------------

Davies-----------Tabla----------Hoilett

-------------Arfield----Hutchinson-------

Subs: Oso for Arfield, Piette for Hutchinson, Millar for Hoilett, David for Davies, Larin for Cavallini. You could also take Tabla out of the game and play Hoilett or Osorio there.

Nothing Tabla has done out wide has come off yet. Obviously it is just two games and obviously he is very, very talented, but if we are willing to play Davies at LB, why aren't we trying Tabla at CAM? Seems like more of a sane solution. Perhaps they tried this in training for all I know, but I believe Tabla can do well in the centre of the field, even though I understand that he is a winger.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Obinna

[dyslexic nam]

12 minutes ago, Obinna said:

This is why Tabla should be tried in a CAM position imo:

--------------------Cavallini-----------------

Davies-----------Tabla----------Hoilett

-------------Arfield----Hutchinson-------

Subs: Oso for Arfield, Piette for Hutchinson, Millar for Hoilett, David for Davies, Larin for Cavallini. You could also take Tabla out of the game and play Hoilett or Osorio there.

Nothing Tabla has done out wide has come off yet. Obviously it is just two games and obviously he is very, very talented, but if we are willing to play Davies at LB, why aren't we trying Tabla at CAM? Seems like more of a sane solution. Perhaps they tried this in training for all I know, but I believe Tabla can do well in the centre of the field, even though I understand that he is a winger.

Yeah, I don't know if he starts over Osorio (not based on what I have seen so far) but I like the idea of Tabla at CAM rather than on the wing (pushing Davies into the back).