Mathieu Choinière

[Bigandy]

Our GC squad had bombito and loturi at 6, ahmed and staq at 8 and spoony, oso and even hoilett at 10. I can see the logic of not calling choiniere based on the guys above. 
Loturi - hes there for experience and must be seen as a possible higher ceiling player.
Spoony - hes our 23rdish guy. I can see how his leadership in helping the young guys transition is more valuable than choiniere as our 23rd guy even though I wouldve pick MC instead. 

When staq dropped out, choiniere was injured or else i believe he wouldve had the call up.  

[shorty]

3 minutes ago, Bigandy said:

Spoony - hes our 23rdish guy. I can see how his leadership in helping the young guys transition is more valuable than choiniere as our 23rd guy even though I wouldve pick MC instead. 

Or, if they’ve had discussions as I suspect, JH lays out that this would likely be MC’s role and asks if that’s what he would like to do, or keep working at FCM. 

[Corazon]

3 hours ago, Bigandy said:

I disagree with this anti-montreal sentiment. Sure, herdman said montreal needs a winning mentality but I dont think hes against montreal at all.  

Piette's been called up consistently but isnt at a high enough level to force his way into the starting line up. His skill set is very specific so it makes sense he doesnt get lots of minutes from the bench. 

Kone was good but i think leaving him off the WC squad wouldnt be that absurd. A poor choice but nothing like leaving a laryea or adekgube type player at home (at the time). Basically I don't think kone was sooo amazing that it was impossible for herdman to leave him at home if herdman had a bias against montreal. In fact, herdman called him up extremely quickly after his pro debut so I dont think theres an anti bias. 

Sirios- its better to keep his momentum going at montreal than to drop mcgill for him at a GC just to sit on the bench. Plus its a good long term play to keep mcgill interested. 

Kamal - has been the #1 LCB for years, no bias there. 

Waterman - Not good enough. Mcgraw showed more and is the profile we need. Bombito is more versatile in the positions we need, with a better profile and a higher ceiling. Waterman looked horrible against bahrain as well.  I think dropping waterman is the right call. 

Choiniere - This is the only puzzling decision for me. The GC would have been perfect for him given our squad depth at cm. Perhaps he was viewed as similar to ahmed and JH wanted one of them? If he started CM, then ahmed goes to the bench or LWB. Then millar drops to the bench or goes striker, which means hoilett goes to the bench. There wasnt room in our starting 11 for him using this logic (although i think he would have been extremely useful at the GC as a starter or sub). 

I started typing this exact paragraph up but ended up deleting.  But this is exactly what I was typing.  No bias, just some timing issues, factored in with capping new players.  If Sirois keeps this up, he will be called in.  I agree that he was never likely to start with Dayne there so keep him back in Montreal.  Choiniere, is a bit unfortunate but I understand bringing in/capping new midfielders Ahmed, Loturi & I guess Bombito.  And Waterman does not deserve to be called right now in my opinion.  I'd have picked Bombito, McGraw and Zator over him anyways.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Corazon

[costarg]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

He was called up for the friendly against Bahrain. Didn’t play, but the only logical explanation I have is he saw Choiniere in a camp, so wanted to check out Ahmed and the other new MLS guys this time. 

....new MLS guys, except for Sirois.  Who's probably the hottest ticket in town.  We know Dayne, and we also know McGill hasn't played in forever, we certainly know Borjan.  Sirois is a game changer.

Not trying to claim bias or CFM hate.  It's just very puzzling and no twist of logic seems to make any sense.  Maybe next time will be CFM time.

And hopefully Brym stays in Holland to keep his momentum going.

[InglewoodJack]

26 minutes ago, costarg said:

....new MLS guys, except for Sirois.  Who's probably the hottest ticket in town.  We know Dayne, and we also know McGill hasn't played in forever, we certainly know Borjan.  Sirois is a game changer.

Not trying to claim bias or CFM hate.  It's just very puzzling and no twist of logic seems to make any sense.  Maybe next time will be CFM time.

And hopefully Brym stays in Holland to keep his momentum going.

I agree with your Sirois take, but I also kinda get it. He would've been our third string keeper meaning he wouldn't play and also miss out on games for his club whereas McGill *might* become a premier league keeper and it isn't like he'd be putting his starting spot in jeopardy by coming to a Canada camp.

I think it's as simple as Herdman preferring Europe over MLS and preferring either the unknown or the too well known (liam fraser, zbg) when it's time to fill out the edges of his roster.

If Herdman does have a bias, I think it would be against players playing in Canada in general. I don't think Kobe Franklin even got a prelim call for one of the two tournaments and he wasn't even talked about for a gold cup call up- it's puzzling me to call up ZBG over a 20 year old starter for TFC who seems to be one of the team's very few positives this year.

[Bigandy]

54 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

I agree with your Sirois take, but I also kinda get it. He would've been our third string keeper meaning he wouldn't play and also miss out on games for his club whereas McGill *might* become a premier league keeper and it isn't like he'd be putting his starting spot in jeopardy by coming to a Canada camp.

I think it's as simple as Herdman preferring Europe over MLS and preferring either the unknown or the too well known (liam fraser, zbg) when it's time to fill out the edges of his roster.

If Herdman does have a bias, I think it would be against players playing in Canada in general. I don't think Kobe Franklin even got a prelim call for one of the two tournaments and he wasn't even talked about for a gold cup call up- it's puzzling me to call up ZBG over a 20 year old starter for TFC who seems to be one of the team's very few positives this year.

This whole time Ive been thinking that the only GC miss was choiniere which is kinda explainable by the injury and sirious which youve explained. However, you make a great point on franklin. It may be a bit early for him, especially in an attacking wingback role, but he's for sure one to keep our eyes on. 

[InglewoodJack]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

This whole time Ive been thinking that the only GC miss was choiniere which is kinda explainable by the injury and sirious which youve explained. However, you make a great point on franklin. It may be a bit early for him, especially in an attacking wingback role, but he's for sure one to keep our eyes on. 

I admittedly don’t watch Toronto much but any time I see them or look them up, he looks like one of their best players, he’s only 20, he likely has European upside, he’s a week in week out starter, he ticks all of Herdman’s boxes, so I’m not sure why there isn’t more talk about him playing for Canada. I think Choiniere is the bigger omission, but I think Kobe is better than we give him credit for.

I guess Herdman loves his centre back trio so that would make it difficult for him to play, but I also wouldn’t mind seeing Herdman try out a back 4, but that’s another conversation. 
 

they’re different positions, but I think Franklin would’ve been more useful to have around than Bombito, plus he’s like 3 years younger too. By Bombito’s age, Franklin could very well be in Europe.

Edited July 24, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[TGAA_Star]

Definitely hope Choiniere gets called up for Nations League 

[canuckgbp]

 

[kacbru]

Not that he could have done anything about it, but Michael Bradley is taking his box-to-box role too literally.  Ran back to the top of the 18 and then just took a casual stroll around.  Really poor reaction by all TFC players, but at least a couple of them did. 

[canuckgbp]

 

[Grandbloke]

How is Choinière not at least our 4th central midfielder after Staq, Koné and Osorio? He might even be ahead of Osorio.

[costarg]

11 minutes ago, Grandbloke said:

How is Choinière not at least our 4th central midfielder after Staq, Koné and Osorio? He might even be ahead of Osorio.

Anyone who has been watching the past 12 months would put Choiniere ahead of Osorio. Some are still holding onto Osorio pre-2022, i’m still hoping he shows up one day.

 

[dyslexic nam]

14 hours ago, Grandbloke said:

How is Choinière not at least our 4th central midfielder after Staq, Koné and Osorio? He might even be ahead of Osorio.

I have always been an Oso fan but it is hard to disagree with this.  It could be chalked up to the TFC dumpster fire but it is hard to separate all players from the dismal performances being put in by key players, including Oso.  Regardless, it is pretty clear that Choiniere is in the ascendancy and at the very least Oso is in a serious slump (and at worst, he is unable to get back to the player he was prior to his lengthy injury issues).  It is ludicrous that MC isn’t getting callups - especially when we have named experimental sides.  

Edited August 21, 2023 by dyslexic nam

[BearcatSA]

I would love to see him get a real look with the NT.  He's earned it.

[InglewoodJack]

Sofascore has him as an LM of which he’s the highest rated in MLS. The eye test backs it up too. Think we’re beyond whether he has a spot on the NT, it’s whether he should be starting- which he won’t because we don’t have any games in the near future and Herdman won’t bench Osorio, but he should. 
 

funny enough, for top Sofascore ratings in MLS, he’s one spot above one time quasi Canadian aiden morris. Door closes window opens type situation here 

Edited August 21, 2023 by InglewoodJack

[Bigandy]

12 hours ago, Grandbloke said:

How is Choinière not at least our 4th central midfielder after Staq, Koné and Osorio? He might even be ahead of Osorio.

100% agree but the only argument I can see is that oso's a bit more creative and choiniere is more all action. Poor argument because style without form means nothing....

[RS]

12 hours ago, dyslexic nam said:

I have always been an Oso fan but it is hard to disagree with this.  It could be chalked if to the TFC dumpster fire but it is hard to separate players from the dismal performances being put in by key players, including Oso.  Regardless, it is pretty clear that Choiniere is in the ascendancy and at the very least Oso is in a serious slump (and at worst, he is unable to get back to the player he was prior to his lengthy injury issues).  It is ludicrous that MC isn’t getting callups - especially when we have named experimental sides.  

We're really just talking about the Gold Cup, right? Because there was no way Choiniere was going to break into the Nations League squad based on a breakout season that was either barely just started (March window) or a couple of months in (June window).

[costarg]

36 minutes ago, RS said:

We're really just talking about the Gold Cup, right? Because there was no way Choiniere was going to break into the Nations League squad based on a breakout season that was either barely just started (March window) or a couple of months in (June window).

If you've only been watching TFC, yes.  Not if you've been following Choiniere for a few years, he's a midfielder who was playing most of his minutes as LWB for CFM, so he was easy to ignore.  Choiniere has been playing great for 3 years now in a strong midfield that is difficult to get minutes in at CFM.  We're not talking Bradley here.... Wanyama, Kone, Mihailovic.

[Dominic94]

The whole he has not won trophies thing was brutal 

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, Bigandy said:

100% agree but the only argument I can see is that oso's a bit more creative and choiniere is more all action. Poor argument because style without form means nothing....

Even with that argument (and I know you aren’t advocating it) an all-action guy like MC would fit well with fast wingers on the break.  He is a guy who will sprint 90 yards at the end of a game to be there for rebounds and cutbacks from guys like Davies and Tajon.  To me that very much compliments the style of game we can play - especially if Staq and Kone are on the field playing a bit more stay-at-home.  

[dyslexic nam]

1 hour ago, RS said:

We're really just talking about the Gold Cup, right? Because there was no way Choiniere was going to break into the Nations League squad based on a breakout season that was either barely just started (March window) or a couple of months in (June window).

As @costarg said, I think Choiniere has been playing well for longer than you are giving him credit for.  He had a strong season last year and was one of the reasons they had a successful season.  Admittedly, breaking into our top squad will never be easy for an MLS guy, but for me he is the natural heir to Oso’s spot.  The real question is just about when that transition happens. 

[RS]

33 minutes ago, costarg said:

If you've only been watching TFC, yes.  Not if you've been following Choiniere for a few years, he's a midfielder who was playing most of his minutes as LWB for CFM, so he was easy to ignore.  Choiniere has been playing great for 3 years now in a strong midfield that is difficult to get minutes in at CFM.  We're not talking Bradley here.... Wanyama, Kone, Mihailovic.

If you've only been watching CFMTL, sure. But we're talking about Choiniere breaking into Canada, not TFC (who I didn't even mention, by the way) or CFMTL. So the names you should be mentioning are Davies, Adekugbe, Laryea (as a LWB) or Eustaquio, Hutchinson, Kone (again), Osorio.

You yourself said he's been easy to ignore since he hasn't been playing midfield until recently, so why would he get a call-up for Canada, as a midfielder, until now?

 

[RS]

1 minute ago, dyslexic nam said:

As @costarg said, I think Choiniere has been playing well for longer than you are giving him credit for.  He had a strong season last year and was one of the reasons they had a successful season.  Admittedly, breaking into our top squad will never be easy for an MLS guy, but for me he is the natural heir to Oso’s spot.  The real question is just about when that transition happens. 

Choiniere's been good (not great) as a wide player playing out of position, for sure. No where near as good as the options Canada's had at their disposal, though.

His move centrally, and subsequent rise into a fringe MLS all-star level (which is where I think Osorio has been for most of the last five years until his concussion) definitely puts him in the conversation, but that only happened this year. 

[Stryker911]

Regardless if you think he should be ahead of Osorio. He certainly should have been selected ahead of Wotherspoon.