Mathieu Choinière

[Grandbloke]

1 hour ago, PopePouri said:

I think Herdman wants his players to challenge themselves and move to Europe and so Loturi and Wotherspoon was called over him at THAT position. Same with Waterman and Zator.

In his tenure as CMNT head coach, Herdman has called up many players who have never played for a European club.

[P-O]

He would be good a midfield 3 next to Kone & Eustachio.

 

He has such an engine!

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

5 hours ago, narduch said:

Also in a One Soccer interview Herdman called out the 3 missing Montreal players as not having a 'winning mentality'

Link?

Was the tweet doesn't quite say that and is about the Nations League squad (where he wanted to go with a more established group)

[narduch]

16 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Link?

Was the tweet doesn't quite say that and is about the Nations League squad (where he wanted to go with a more established group)

Sorry I don't have a clip.

It was shown on One Soccer during the half time of the Voyageurs Cup final between Montreal and Vancouver on June 7.

Maybe someone here has it on their Fubo PVR still and could post it. 

Even if was for the NL squad it's still pretty damning to claim players don't have a winning mentality. Especially coming from someone like Herdman who we are continually told is a great motivator

Edited June 22, 2023 by narduch

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

7 minutes ago, narduch said:

Sorry I don't have a clip.

It's just seems like there may have been something lost in translation, going from an English interview to a French tweet and back to English again.

[dyslexic nam]

Damn that seems harsh.   A guy like a Choiniere seems to fight like hell when he is on the field.  Taking a swipe at a whole cohort like that seems really out of character for Herdman.  

[InglewoodJack]

Sometimes I see tweets and I’m like 100% this is someone that posts here

 

[Obinna]

5 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

Sometimes I see tweets and I’m like 100% this is someone that posts here

 

Lol such a bad take, whoever that is. I don't think Waterman missing out is criminal, or even much of a head scratcher, but it does come with at least bit of surprise, wouldn't you say? Is his form really that bad for Montreal? Seems to start for them an awful lot for a guy who is supposedly nowhere near the national team. 

[TGAA_Star]

Choiniere is the future

[costarg]

12 hours ago, Obinna said:

Lol such a bad take, whoever that is. I don't think Waterman missing out is criminal, or even much of a head scratcher, but it does come with at least bit of surprise, wouldn't you say? Is his form really that bad for Montreal? Seems to start for them an awful lot for a guy who is supposedly nowhere near the national team. 

CFM's backline has been a horror show at times this year.  Not one person in particular, just the whole ensemble.  When you consider they have fairly strong WBs and very strong DM's, its a strong indicator to how bad that backline is.

[The Beaver 2.0]

Seems Gold Cup is exactly the place to bring in a guy like Choiniere, the kind of player who could make the jump to Europe--perhaps--if given the right opportunities to grow and show his stuff (i.e. at the Gold Cup). With several of the OG midfield getting old and banged up--Hutch, Oso, MAK, Piette--we need to see how guys like Choiniere can perform on the international stage. And it might get a few more scouts looking at him, too. 

I'd love to understand Herdman's reasoning on this one.

[Obinna]

16 minutes ago, costarg said:

CFM's backline has been a horror show at times this year.  Not one person in particular, just the whole ensemble.  When you consider they have fairly strong WBs and very strong DM's, its a strong indicator to how bad that backline is.

Not saying Waterman is better than Miller, nor can I say for sure that Inter Miami's defense is worse, but they are 10 points and 7 spots lower than Montreal in the East, and sit at the bottom. So in other words, how much of that horror show should be pinned on Joel? We don't hold it again Miller that Miami has allowed 24 goals, which is just 3 goals better than Montreal. Maybe that's because Kamal is a core player and Waterman is a fringe player - or has Waterman in particular really been that bad?

Regardless, I think Waterman, who can play LCB, RCB, and probably RB in an emergency, is right to be angry. Let that anger drive him to be better.

I agree it's not a hill to die on, and I agree that Choiniere is an outright snub, but Waterman has to at least be a questionable ommission.

At the end of the day, I don't mind the opportunity going to Bombito or Zator, since they have 0 caps and Waterman already has 2. The more we spread the international caps around, the better for the depth of the pool. I guess I just take issue with the idea that Waterman is the 5th RCB in the depth chart. I mean, technically you can say it's true, since he's not there, but based on talent I would dispute it. 

Also, isn't Kyle Heibert a left sided player? Same with Bombito? Both of those guys have played LCB or even LB this season, no? 

[Obinna]

Just now, The Beaver 2.0 said:

Seems Gold Cup is exactly the place to bring in a guy like Choiniere, the kind of player who could make the jump to Europe--perhaps--if given the right opportunities to grow and show his stuff (i.e. at the Gold Cup). With several of the OG midfield getting old and banged up--Hutch, Oso, MAK, Piette--we need to see how guys like Choiniere can perform on the international stage. And it might get a few more scouts looking at him, too. 

I'd love to understand Herdman's reasoning on this one.

Me too. I think he would have been next after Wotherspoon, so maybe the question should be what is Herdman's reasoning to call Spoony, not why didn't he call Choniere? The answer is probably "something something...leadership group". 

[Kadenge]

14 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Not saying Waterman is better than Miller, nor can I say for sure that Inter Miami's defense is worse, but they are 10 points and 7 spots lower than Montreal in the East, and sit at the bottom. So in other words, how much of that horror show should be pinned on Joel? We don't hold it again Miller that Miami has allowed 24 goals, which is just 3 goals better than Montreal. Maybe that's because Kamal is a core player and Waterman is a fringe player - or has Waterman in particular really been that bad?

Regardless, I think Waterman, who can play LCB, RCB, and probably RB in an emergency, is right to be angry. Let that anger drive him to be better.

I agree it's not a hill to die on, and I agree that Choiniere is an outright snub, but Waterman has to at least be a questionable ommission.

At the end of the day, I don't mind the opportunity going to Bombito or Zator, since they have 0 caps and Waterman already has 2. The more we spread the international caps around, the better for the depth of the pool. I guess I just take issue with the idea that Waterman is the 5th RCB in the depth chart. I mean, technically you can say it's true, since he's not there, but based on talent I would dispute it. 

Also, isn't Kyle Heibert a left sided player? Same with Bombito? Both of those guys have played LCB or even LB this season, no? 

Bombito is right footed, but he played on the left in college

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

14 hours ago, TGAA_Star said:

Choiniere is the future

The reason why his non-selection is baffling or vexing to some is that Choinière is the present.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Wasp]

1 hour ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

The reason why is non-selection is baffling or vexing to some is that Choinière is the present.

Has there been any reporting, or any proof at all, that Choinière was not selected? As I've already said in this thread, it seems very unlikely that Herdman would not call him and the much more likely explanation is that CF Montreal didn't want him to go and they all agreed that he wouldn't.

If this was a FIFA-sanctioned window it would be much more concerning. Ultimately, Choinière not being in the squad has more to do with the questionable scheduling of a federations' premier international competition during the season of its biggest and most important domestic league than it does with Herdman's assessment of him, or his willingness to represent Canada. Until we hear otherwise, at least.

[narduch]

3 minutes ago, Wasp said:

Has there been any reporting, or any proof at all, that Choinière was not selected? As I've already said in this thread, it seems very unlikely that Herdman would not call him and the much more likely explanation is that CF Montreal didn't want him to go and they all agreed that he wouldn't.

If this was a FIFA-sanctioned window it would be much more concerning. Ultimately, Choinière not being in the squad has more to do with the questionable scheduling of a federations' premier international competition during the season of its biggest and most important domestic league than it does with Herdman's assessment of him, or his willingness to represent Canada. Until we hear otherwise, at least.

Losada was quoted saying this. Doesn't sound like he applied any pressure. 

“I’m disappointed for Mathieu, Jonathan, and Joel,” Losada said on Thursday, per Jeremy Filosa. “I think they all deserved to join the team. I don’t really understand. At the same time, I’m really happy to be able to count on them over the next few weeks.”

https://canadiansoccerdaily.com/2023/06/22/cf-montreals-domestic-stars-show-that-canadas-loss-is-cfms-gain-as-club-sets-another-record/

Edited June 23, 2023 by narduch

[Wasp]

1 minute ago, narduch said:

Losada was quoted saying this. Doesn't sound like he applied any pressure. 

“I’m disappointed for Mathieu, Jonathan, and Joel,” Losada said on Thursday, per Jeremy Filosa. “I think they all deserved to join the team. I don’t really understand. At the same time, I’m really happy to be able to count on them over the next few weeks.”

https://canadiansoccerdaily.com/2023/06/22/cf-montreals-domestic-stars-show-that-canadas-loss-is-cfms-gain-as-club-sets-another-record/

Wow, I hadn't seen this. In that case, yes it's a very questionable and downright stupid non-selection given his age and current form.

[Bison44]

If TFC with all its injuries and other guys going on INT duty can release players, Montreal shouldnt have any problems. This really seems like Herdman thinks he owes Spoony a call up for old times sake, old vet over new guy.  Herdman better captie Loturi and Ahmed though, and not give Spoony all the minutes.  

[InglewoodJack]

17 minutes ago, Bison44 said:

If TFC with all its injuries and other guys going on INT duty can release players, Montreal shouldnt have any problems. 

That’s the weird part of this- if it wasn’t Montreal’s request to not invite them, what gives? Choiniere should be there. 

[Shway]

The other two MTL players I'm not concerned about, could simply be a coaching staff preference. 
But the fact Choinerre wasn't picked when he has double the amount of minutes that ZBG has who is on the same team....is the questionable part. It's not like ZBG is a Brym, Miller or Fraser type guy who has somehow always ended up in the team in past camps regardless of form. 

I think that's the real shocker....but I guess it will come down to not a lot of RBs in the squad.

[VinceA]

Is Herdman even doing media availability?

[Acid-Tone]

Mathieu's omission.  

[Bison44]

Do they still have that goofy rule where you can call 1-2 different players after the group stage??  Maybe there is a method to the madness.  

[Obinna]

3 hours ago, InglewoodJack said:

That’s the weird part of this- if it wasn’t Montreal’s request to not invite them, what gives? Choiniere should be there. 

For sure, and that Losada quote above confirms my initinal suspicion that Herdman doesn't value Choinere, at least relative to a 33 year old, out of contract David Wotherspoon. I didn't want to think it was the case, so part of me held out hope that it was Herdman doing Montreal a favour, but clearly there hasn't been that communication between Losada and Herdman, which is disappointing. 

I guess the writing was on the wall when he was the only outfield player not to see the pitch in the Bahrain friendly. He was selected though, so at least Herdman is interested in the player. He was also on the prelim roster, obviously, so again he's not being overlooked entierly.

My theory continues to be that Choniere would have been there, if not for loyality (let's call it that) to Wotherspoon.

 

...........................

Re: Waterman, Heibert and Bombito

I think Herdman really likes Bombito relative to Heibert and Waterman (maybe in that order, maybe not).

However, in Spring it would have been very bold (probably too bold) to call Bombito ahead of Heibert for that last minute Miller replacement, he hadn't even played for Colorado yet, I don't think. So, on the face of it, picking Heibert at the time over Bombito made sense. Waterman was injured IIRC. 

Now that Heibert and Bombito are both playing, Herdman seems to have made a judgement call that Bombito is the priority. Why is Heibert behind Bombito? Could be the physical attributes, ability on the ball, or even just an eye for spreading the caps around. It's obviously not about minites - Heibert has more of them in 2023. 

Bombito over Waterman then becomes the question and the rub for me, now that I write out my thoughts. I am happy for Bombito, but really haven't seen him play, so my bias is toward Joel Waterman, who I have been high on for a while now, after watching him many times on broadcast for Montreal and live for Cavalry FC.

There's also the fact that he's in his prime and has cemented himself as a versitile and bonified starting MLS center back - so given that profile it's understandable people question whether Bombito is ahead of him. At the end of the day though, I think it's all about the potential of Bombito (which that tweet also says, to be fair).

And again, I am excited for Bombito and happy the caps are spread around. That goes for Zator as well.

I would rather us come out of the summer with Bombito, Zator and Waterman each with a handful of caps, rather than Waterman having 6-8 caps and Zator and Bombito with zero. 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Obinna